Folic acid

[Chickens44]

If your folate levels are good, and you continue with EOD B12 injections, only taking folic once a week, what happens? Will you return to getting symptoms or does it mean the B12 just doesn’t get utilised as well as it should. I have been taking a B complex every day which has folate in it. Is the folate in the complex enough.

[Chickens44]

Just read this. A lot of these are what I have, bloating, gas, nausea, gut pain, funny taste in my mouth.

Symptoms of folic

[topazrat in reply to Chickens44]

If your levels of folate are good, then the B12 will get used. My folate is off the scale high, I inject twice a week and don't take a supplement. Just keep an eye on the folate levels periodically to make sure they aren't dropping. I'm not an expert, just going by my own experience. I'm sure someone will come along and put me right if I'm wrong 😜

[Technoid]

You haven't specified how much folic acid you would take once a week. Also relevant would be how much folate is in your diet and if you have any issues absorbing it. Some people get plenty of folate in their diet and have no issues absorbing so supplementation of folate in such a case is likely unwarranted, whatever the B12 intake might be.

It seems to be a common belief that the more frequently you inject B12, the more B12 will be used and the more "co-factors" you need to take. It's not at all clear to me that this is the case. Your body has a finite demand for B12 (and all vitamins/essential minerals). Taking more B12 does not scale up that demand. The body has amazing functions of homeostasis that keep levels of many substances within incredibly tight tolerances. When less of something is available in the diet, the body will also often increase the percentage it absorbs, to compensate. When too much is available, it gets rid of it as quickly as possible, except for some trickier substances like iron.

I think you are thinking about the function of B12 the wrong way around. It is the folate cycle that needs B12 to function (and in very small amounts). Folate is the fuel and the main ingredient in the folate cycle. B12 is less like a fuel and more like an oil that is needed in small but critical amounts. Its also used in another reaction where it functions again less like a fuel than an oil (technically it's a co-factor to an enzyme), that leads into the Krebs cycle, the main energy source for cells.

In fact, some studies had suggested that the more excess B12 you load up with, the more your cells resist it and this may actually result in lower intracellular B12 levels than someone would have with a normal physiologic B12 intake. I will say I accept as a fair criticism of this, the preliminary nature of the studies and the difficulty of emulating a physiologic intake via IM or SC injection.

Because I don't know what your serum folate is, how much folate is in your diet and whether you're absorbing it, nor the folate dose you are proposing to take, its difficult to answer the question.

[Chickens44 in reply to Technoid]

Sorry, been meaning to reply with my folic/folate levels/supplements. Here is my folate level in July. And the folic acid I take once week is 5mg, and the Bcomplex which I am taking daily is attached.

Bcomplex

[Chickens44 in reply to Technoid]

Folate level in July

Folate level

[Technoid in reply to Chickens44]

Folate is not over-range. How long since you started taking the b-complex and folic acid once a week? Any idea if you're getting a good amount of dietary folates?

[Chickens44 in reply to Technoid]

Been taking B complex about four weeks, and folic once a week for the same. I eat varied diet, including raw spinach, wild rocket, avocado, runner beans, courgette, cucumber plus meat, fish, eggs, cheese. I also have goats milk kefir, the good stuff!

[Chickens44 in reply to Technoid]

it’s a difficult question to answer I know. My problem is/was malabsorption. I stopped omeprazole last December and have been trying to get my gut microbiome balanced again, but I’m not sure if I’m now absorbing nutrients properly yet or not. Some of my malabsorption could be down to anxiety/stress I have been experiencing. Or is the anxiety/stress caused by the malabsorption. Chicken and egg situation!

[Technoid in reply to Chickens44]

Your folate is in a good place though, on the higher end. If it was me, I would discuss with your medical team whether you need that extra 5mg and consider sticking with the 400mcg you already get plus what sounds like healthy amounts from your diet.

If you don't have PA you won't have that associated complete lack of stomach acid that causes so many issues either, although stomach acid does decrease with age I believe.

Kefir is not for me of course 😆 I cant get into any fermented foods but my digestion seems very happy without them so I will leave them alone 😁 Tasty sounding veggies (dont go crazy with too much raw spinach though).

[MindfulSquirrel in reply to Technoid]

Do you have any references for the research about cells possibly adapting to high B12 levels? (I’m interested rather than challenging you). I came across something previously that suggested that cells regulate B vitamin intake to the levels around it, but it was in a Petri dish rather than in an organism.

[Technoid in reply to MindfulSquirrel]

Not at all, you're quite right to ask for the research 😁

It is indeed from an in-vitro study and may or may not pan out with further testing.

Intracellular and Tissue Levels of Vitamin B12 in Hepatocytes Are Modulated by CD320 Receptor and TCN2 Transporter

"Progressively increasing extracellular B12 to supraphysiological levels led to relative decreased levels of intracellular B12, lower expression of gene and protein levels of CD320 and TCN2. "

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[MindfulSquirrel in reply to Technoid]

Thank you 🙂

[B12again]

Having you bloods checked 6 monthly will keep you in check. I took folic acid daily, then EOD, my folate was also off the charts. My private consultant put me on it weekly. I take 5gms of methylfolate and am ok on that.

[MindfulSquirrel]

Based purely on personal experience and piecing together various papers I’ve found, I’d suggest that folate supplementation (both quantity and type) depends on symptoms and your body’s reaction to it. Folic acid raised my levels from deficient to above range very quickly, yet ended up giving me weird simultaneous symptoms of folate deficiency and overload. My guess is that most of it was unprocessed and it started impacting my ability to process the real stuff, a bit like what happens with B6 supplementation.

Is it possible to search by users’ posts? I’ve written quite an extensive post about my experience previously.

[JHEW0836 in reply to MindfulSquirrel]

I totally agree with you. My folate was always high and did not come down much after I started my B12 therapy. I started seeing a nutritionist last November and she advised me to watch my intake of foods with synthetic folic acid ( bread, pasta, breakfast cereals) as some people cannot process the synthetic folic acid into usable folate, especially as you get older. I felt so much better after eliminating that from my diet, and I take a small dose of folinic acid every other day.