Hi, just going bk thro medical records to do some detective work abt health, basically wondering if b12 issues were the cause of poor health since late teens alongside/? ME diagnosis. Looking likely they were...Along the way I've had traces of blood in urine which seemed to worstene leading up to functional b12 deficiency diagnosis.
Looking back can see calcium oxolate crystals were mentioned in early years of symptoms,vit never mentioned to me.. After a bit of googling read that calcium is required to break this down & also found some info which I can't seem to refind! about needing adequate b12 too.
Also about reducing oxolates in diet...has anyone else read anything about this please? Many thanks...also does anyone know if its routine to test for these crystals each time a urine test is completed please?
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Jo5454
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No idea, but I was diagnosed with pernicious anaemia a couple of months ago. One of my main symptoms is painful bladder with trace blood in urine. I am injecting eod and until 3 days ago was still in a right state. The bladder pain has recently subsided about 90% and the trace blood along with it.
Low b12 can cause cystitis issues, cystitis issues can cause trace blood. Just thought you should know.
Hi Gobbozoid, we've been talking on one of yr posts...thanks for yr reply, think it must've been cystitis type issues due to low iron & b12, was just wondering if the calcium oxolate could add to the issues & gotbquite excited when I read somewhere lower b12 can cause that to build up,thght id found another link! Seems not tho...glad yre improving, keep doing that!
Yes M.E. can be a misdiagnosis of PA/B12 as stated by Ms T Witty of B12info.com and Dr Joseph Chandy in B12 Deficiency in Clinical Practice or thyroid disease or any autoimmune disease. If you are Member of the PA Society then they collect statistics of delays in diagnoses and most probably what they were. They are the only organisation in the world to do so.
No, an NHS urine dipstick test only tests for Glucose, Protein, pH, Specific Gravity, Blood, Ketones, Nitrite, Leukocytes, Urobilinogen, Bilirubin. Did you have urinary symptoms as well as increased traces of blood and the mention of calcium oxalate crystals in your NHS notes ?
With regards to reducing oxalates in your diet, some people simply cannot eat them. Jo5454, I have found your previous posts focusing on numbers and units, vague information and questions relating to further tests. A symptoms diary is the most important aspect.
So what was the date when calcium oxalate crystals were written in your NHS notes ? How likely that since then have you not to have them ? Are you experiencing severe pain in your mid back ? Are you having trouble passing urine ? If no, then please do not get hung up on calcium oxalate or CaC2O4.
If you have not already then you maybe interested in Dr Sarah Myhill’s work. She has written several books and has her own Functional Medicine website. Like the late Dr Joseph Chandy, she was a practising GP but again was hauled over the coals for understanding patients’ needs, understanding anatomy, physiology, biochemistry, knowing about vitale amines and minerals. Why ? I hear you cry. Quite simple, Big Pharma runs the show.
Hi Narwhal10,thank you very much for your reply. Yes, I must look onto being a member of PA society, I didn't realise they record diagnosis. I was diagnosed with a functional deficiency privateky at St Thomas, serum b12 levels never underange, so like many wld never been picked up by NHS, so wkd be interested in passing that on thank you.I had a fair few antibiotics after 1st vaccination in 1st few yrs of life it seems for tonsilitis, wheezy coughs,ears often followed by uti's, which could've been linked to candida overgrowth?
Late teens had copious amounts of antibiotics for tonsilitis, sinusitis & again some utis. The oxolates were mentioned after what looks like ecoli water infection at uni.
Few yrs later was diagnosed with ME after more infections & flu. On looking back now seems at time ferritin was 11, b12 high to low 200's,(same as what is was when diagnosed b12 funct defic 8 yrs ago). raised mch, bottom range folate, so looking like it could've been an issue way bk then,25 yrs ago!
Prior to f.unct defic diagnosis, 8 yrs ago, the cystitis type symptoms were worse & kept showing traces of blood and other things in water, but never infections,but no mentions of testing oxolate crystals,but thank u for pointing out that wldnt have been included.
Again ferritin was low 15 & private b12 testing showed bottom range active b12 & mma way overange in 700's and on monthly jabs & raising iron, water symptoms basically disappeared.
Was on b12 tablets during covid, put diminishing health down to dental & other probs but neuro symptoms returned badly this yr, serum level 600, but been allowed 2 mnthly inj instead of monthly,but that's work in progress!
No water symptoms this time around prior, but returned a bit aft loading dose and had bladder area pain for month,but having said that had introduced daily nuts into diet. Have stopped them for wk & bladder pain gone? Will retry to see if it was just a reversing symptom. All very interesting thank you.
Yes,I was lucky enough to spk to the wonderful Dr Chandy once & am going to get a copy of his bk for our Dr surgery. Thank you for reminding me of Sarah Myhill.
Yes hear what yre sating abt the big companies! It's like the homocysteine scenario isn't it!
Thank you again for your time and help. I shall ask for a urine test nxt wk when I have b12 just to rule out!
Calcium oxalate crystals in urine are commonly associated with kidney stones, which form when there is an excess of oxalate, calcium, or both in the urine. The presence of these crystals does not directly relate to vitamin B12 deficiency or the role of vitamin B12 in breaking them down. However, there are a few points to consider:
1. Calcium Oxalate Crystals and Kidney Stones:
• Calcium oxalate stones are the most common type of kidney stones.
• They form when oxalate, a natural substance found in many foods, binds with calcium in the urine.
2. Diet and Prevention:
• High intake of oxalate-rich foods, such as spinach, beets, and nuts, can contribute to stone formation.
• Adequate hydration is crucial for preventing stone formation.
• Dietary modifications, including reducing oxalate and increasing calcium intake (from dietary sources rather than supplements), can help prevent stones.
3. Vitamin B12 and Kidney Health:
• There is no direct link between vitamin B12 and the breakdown of calcium oxalate crystals.
• However, vitamin B12 is essential for overall health, including nerve function and the production of DNA and red blood cells.
• Deficiency in vitamin B12 can lead to various health issues, but it is not specifically related to the formation or dissolution of kidney stones.
4. Blood in Urine (Hematuria):
• The presence of blood in urine can be a symptom of kidney stones as they can cause irritation and damage to the urinary tract.
• Other potential causes of blood in urine include urinary tract infections, bladder infections, or more serious conditions such as cancer.
In summary, while vitamin B12 is crucial for overall health, it does not play a role in breaking down calcium oxalate crystals. The presence of these crystals and potential blood in urine should be managed through dietary changes, adequate hydration, and medical consultation. If you are experiencing these symptoms, it is important to consult a healthcare professional for a proper diagnosis and treatment plan.
Many thanks for all of that info B12again,all very interesting. Just thought there was a link there that I'd maybe not come across! I've always drank plenty,mainly water. I have increased nuts recently a few each day for omegas and low body weight,. After avoiding them all apart from almonds in my gluten free cooking, the bladder rawness has gone, but maybe its a coincidence, could've been effects of liading dose or may have even been hormone related, so will.introduce nuts & see. I'd also been eating Swiss chard a few times as have grown some. My calcium could be on lower side due to dairy free diet, tho I try to make up in other areas?All water issues resolved in terms of symptoms when on monthly jabs, except for returning briefly after injections for a day or so, so guess they & raising ferritin, etc helped sort it all.out? Thank you fir such a clear explanation.
I have a permanent in dwelling urine catheter and I used to get lots of infections which meant taking antibiotics, not good. The problem partly was I was getting blockages due to build up of calcium deposits. I think it was a nurse who told me, whilst getting it changed, that I should make my urine more acidic. I started doing this by drinking orange barley drink with chunky slices of lemon. I always have a pint glass of it on the go on the table in the dining room, I may drink 3 of those during the day, more or less. Since doing this I haven’t had an infection over a year or more and the end inserted in the bladder is always very clear (changed monthly). Now this may not work for you but it is a natural way to try if you wish to see if it makes a difference.
Hi B12Again. Many thanks for your reply. That must've been very difficult persistent infections, the irritating symptoms and all those antibiotics. Good to hear you've found solutions and are infections tion free and much improved now.Did they ever give you any idea as to which the calcium was not being broken down?
As I was saying to Gobbozoid on another post, I'd heard orange juice is a great cleanser of the urinary tract,so it's interesting you're finding it so,yes a good natural way! I drink lemon in hot water,but should increase orange intake
I'm very lucky now, only those injection times, well until rhe sore bladder,but assuming it's linked to loading dose,will ask for a urine test nxt wk. I notice it if I try to lift something heavier,etc.too. But then again,having been really unwell for months everything has bound to have got out if condition!
Thank you again and may you continue good,infection free health. .now for a glass of lemon, cheers!
You raise an interesting consideration and symptom of early PA. When my symptoms started and before I was diagnosed I had kidney stones seemingly out of nowhere. Even a nephrologist wasn’t able to determine what caused them. They were microscopic stones and I never found out what type. A few months after that had a cervical spondy diagnosis and that’s when B12 deficiency hit my radar and I started down the path of researching, learning, and ending up finally getting a diagnosis and injections.
That's interesting, thank u for sharing. I know its said there's no definitive link as such, but makes you wonder if bodies are struggling in certain ways and maybe one day later on,there will be even more links or symptoms like this prior to diagnosis, that are discovered. Have you been free of crystals/stones since treating b12?
So one other consideration came to mind - due to timing of all of this - and that is menopause and related loss of estrogen causing bone loss which can also cause kidney stones. HRT depending on dose and type might not mitigate this. I'll see if I can find any medical journals on B12 and kidney stones however do not rule out hormonal changes (miserable time in life for us ladies!).
Ah right, we have to keep open minds! I was only in late teens/early 20's when I had the crystals, but had had uti's on and off since a baby it seems, partic after antibiotics. They worsened in lead up to b12 diagnosis when I was early 40's, well symptoms did, blood in urine, & other things, but rarely identified as infections. Symptoms have gone since, aside from briefly after injections, so somethings happened:)Oh the joys! I'm 50 now & awaiting such treats! Had a few days of terrible hot flushes, then cold ones every few minutes earlier in yr when I was really ill, but thankfully turned out it must've been bad reaction to the antibiotics as it stopped couple days after taking. Phew, thght if they are what hormonal flushes like, I'd never leave the house! I'm really hoping to get well soon from b12/iron/maybe thyroid things so I get a brief spell before it all hits, as I'm not sure I'd work out what on earth is from what! Take care, always interested if u find something...
I'm not sure whether the levels of oxalate in your urine were high enough to indicate an issue but hopefully your GP could confirm.
If you don't have such conditions, dietary oxalates are not really something to get worked up about unless you are juicing 3 packets of raw spinach on the regular or eating a tub of peanut butter daily.
Adequate calcium and keeping well hydrated help to prevent potentially harmful oxalate build-up.
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Never delay seeking advice or dialling emergency services because of something that you have read on HealthUnlocked.
Dr's visit as expected yesterday- he "doesn't believe" evidence I printed off for him :(
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Does anyone in Victoria, Australia know of any doctors who really understand about b12 deficiency?
Matt hancock
