Supplement schedule query - which should be taken apart from others?

[ktwing]

Hello!

I've been SI since late 2017, but have changed my co-factor (and other) supplement regime over time - including recently re-introducing folinic acid, having become folate deficient.

I've always had low ferritin and months ago started Simply Heme iron supplements, which are supposed to be easier to absorb, and blocked only by calcium.

I'm now wondering if anyone can advise on my current supplement schedule, in case any of them are blocking absorption of any others?! I used to know this information, but can't find it now - any help appreciated

I take:

5000 iu D3, Magnesium glycinate, folinic acid - straight after breakfast including fat (for better D3 absorption)

Heme iron about an hour later (editing to add - 3 capsules each a minimum 3 hours apart, calculated by my body weight!)

K2 with evening meal

Thanks to anyone who can help 🙂

[Nackapan]

I'm sure that fine.I take low dose iron every other day and tend to have it with my main meal at mid day.

It took me about two years to raise ferritin and to stabilise ferritin to just 50-60.

I did use ferrous fumarate 210

as told elemental iron needed .

Also better absorbed every other day.

Hope yoo settle on a maintenence dose that suits you.

Others I'm sure have a more scientific stance.

[jade_s]

The thyroid group talks about this often so you can double check there.

I think you can take the D & K2 together in the morning.

I like to take folinic first thing in the morning (well, about 1 h after thyroid pills) to make sure nothing else interferes with it. But i don't think it's affected by D/k2.

Magnesium & iron should ideally be taken apart from each other and everything else by either taking it 1 hour after or 4 hours before. One paper I read said iron can block 30 to 40% of whatever else was taken with it. Mag is similar. This advice is from TUK as well.

So i would keep taking the iron 1 hour or more after everything else, as you do now.

And move mag to evening meal, if that doesn't give problems.

[ktwing in reply to jade_s]

Hi jade_s

Thank you for your reply, good idea re the thyroid group - it's interesting with the D3/K2 as I see them combined sometimes in supplements, but the reason I separate them is that I read in the protocol at this link for high dose D3 that 'fat soluble vitamins compete for fat for transport into the body, the Vitamin D wins and in doing so prevents the vitamin K from getting into the body.'

It ends up being quite complicated!

vitamindprotocol.com/

Excerpt from linked page on why to take K2 separately from D3

[jade_s in reply to ktwing]

I did not realize! Yes very complicated isn't it.

Then maybe keep everything else as is and just move the Mg to halfway between iron & K. That should maybe give enough time on either side?

[Technoid]

Think about it this way - at a normal meal our body takes in and absorbs many nutrients and minerals at the same time. When the amounts of those minerals are not excessive, none is going to significantly block absorption of any of the others.

Where you can run into trouble is with taking high doses of single supplement nutrients, where that nutrient shares a "transporter" with another nutrient. In this case, the two nutrients will compete for absorption, depending on which gets there first.

My general advice is to avoid high dose single supplements but if you do need to take them, for example to treat deficiency, then you could take 1 hour before or 2 hours after a meal to help avoid any absorption displacement. With Iron, high doses can cause upset on an empty stomach, so in this case, best to take a form that's easier on the stomach such as bisglycinate. Take high dose iron at most every other day otherwise you increase hepcidin and inflammation, which paradoxically reduces iron absorption - the more iron, the more inflammation and the less is absorbed so you'll end up spinning your wheels.

If you want to boggle at nutrient interactions I found an interesting table/article on this :

myhealthlegacy.com/2008/08/...

but as I said above, I don't think the interactions are worth fretting about unless you're taking very high doses.

[jade_s in reply to Technoid]

I think the doses of iron and mag we often take here do count as high doses

Interesting chart. Funny that B12 blocks a few other Bs.

[Technoid in reply to jade_s]

The chart is from a random blog of unknown provenance but the interactions that are stated on it did seem to mostly check out (at least for in-vitro studies) when I checked them some of them against research sources. But take with pinch of salt, an interesting project at least and food for thought.

[jade_s in reply to Technoid]

Yes I wanted to ask what his sources for the chart were but i didn't want to be cheeky because you already know that's important 😂

[Technoid in reply to jade_s]

Well I dug around and found the author of that "myhealthlegacy" blog wrote a book which contains all manner of nonsense unfortunately...

myhealthlegacy.com/?m=0

As to sources/references, I don't see that he made mention of any.

[jade_s in reply to Technoid]

Ah well. Thanks for checking. It didn't seem like total nonsense though eg Vit C does indeed interfere with B12.

The iron video is great though!

[Technoid in reply to jade_s]

I think most of the interactions are in line with theoretical research, at least the ones I checked. But I think a lot of these alleged blocking interactions would only occur at very high supplemental doses (which I know some folks do take). Absorption is also affected, increased or reduced by many other dietary elements in addition to microbiome composition and health. For example iron absorption increases if non-heme iron is eaten at same time as beta-carotene, vitamin C, Garlic and Onion. Conversely you have tannins, phytates oxalates, and lectins which could decrease absorption, at least in theory.

hsph.harvard.edu/nutritions...

[Technoid in reply to Technoid]

m.youtube.com/watch?v=HOK3N...(Not working as expected?)

[MrJustatip]

Hello, ktwing. I'd like to comment, but I'm sure I will say oh, yes, and be embarrassed, but what is "SI". I've tried to look it up, but have had no luck.

Thanks, MrJustatip

[Technoid in reply to MrJustatip]

Self-Injecting.

jade_s can you add it to your glossary/resources page please? Thanks!

[jade_s in reply to Technoid]

Added thx 👍

[MrJustatip in reply to Technoid]

OH my goodness, like I said, so embarrassed. Yep, the PA messes with my head.

[ktwing in reply to MrJustatip]

Sorry MrJustatip I should have been more clear - as Technoid said, it means self-injecting 🙂