interesting find

[Thrones12]

has anyone tried grass fed beef liver supplements. I’m wondering if these freeze dried capsules would be beneficial because of the vitamins and minerals in them as I don't seem to be able to keep my levels of anything up without supplementing. As soon as I stop they seem to drop again quite quickly ,I try and do regular blood checks to monitor.

One of the things that puzzles me is if I’m having to have high amounts of b12 shots because of p.a and functional b12 deficiency why do other supplements work to keep my other levels up when I’m on them,it’s a bit contradictory saying I can’t absorb because of no intrinsic factor and yet I can see my other ranges,ie folate ,iron,vit d etc change quite clearly when on supplements.

Does the absorbing issues only apply to b12? is that where I’m getting confused.

I’m just interested to see if anyone else notices or experiences this and have you tried the grass fed beef liver supplements and have they helped.

The ones I’m going to try are Ancestral and they get very good reviews but their not cheap if you stick to the recommended daily doses,some people seem to do well on a lot less dosages.

It seems to have so many benefits that I’d like to try them it’d be marvellous if something reduces my frequency of b12 shots needed. Ty for reading

[Nackapan]

A member a few years ago tried these.Help iron levels I think.

PA is lack of Intrinsic factor to process B12.

An auto immune disease.

It's Seems general absorbency of other vits and minerals alongside happens too.

I too need s low dose iron supplement to stay in range and keep ferritin levels above 40

Vit D is a common one .

The first deficiency found for me as only 21 ( above 75)

As only 50 % of those tested know they have PA , noone really knows.

Only thing found fof me was a very low serum B12 ( 200-900)

So fortunately hot b12 treatment.

Like you i go by blood results.

Symptoms fof B12.

Take alternating vitamin and mineral supplements daily.

Only one high dose B12 !!

As we age absorption from food slows anyhow.

[Thrones12 in reply to Nackapan]

thank you Nackapan x when I had the genetics testing for the DIO2 gene it confirmed I had the faulty gene from both parents but that’s fine then your left with nowhere to go with that info so I’m left with an untreated thyroid autoimmune condition and im just too tired now to research and battle now , it could even be that which is causing the other problems now guess.I’m going to try theses supplements anyway so I’m hoping for some interesting and positive results now..take care x

[Nackapan in reply to Thrones12]

Let us know how it goes

[Gambit62 Administrator in reply to Thrones12]

DIO2 mutations can impact on ability to convert T4 to T3 - having an impact on medication that is most appropriate to treat an underactive thyroid. Variants on this gene are not, to my knowledge, an indicator or cause of auto-immune thyroid conditions.

[Thrones12 in reply to Gambit62]

so is this meaning I don’t have an auto immune thyroid condition ? Did I waste my money having this testing done in your opinion. It’s difficult to know where to go with these things when you do get the results of genetic testing isn’t it.

[Gambit62 Administrator in reply to Thrones12]

If you have PA you are more likely to develop another auto-immune condition.

All I can say is that having two copies of DIO2 doesn't equate to an autoimmune thyroid condition, though it would be indicative that the normal treatment won't work for you if you have one. The two genes could have other effects.

Please note - I'm not a geneticist - its a very tricky area interpreting how different genetic variants may or may not affect people.

[Thrones12 in reply to Gambit62]

thank you

[Hectorsmum2 in reply to Gambit62]

Gambit. I do not have an auto immune thyroid condition but do have the DIO2 varient and have every symptom of underactive thyroid you can get it seems. I respond very well to thyroid hormones. I doubt the research has been done to find out if people with the variant need treatment. I know I do.

[Gambit62 Administrator in reply to Hectorsmum2]

Hectorsmum2 Thanks for that - the gene controls the protein that allows people to convert one thyroid hormone to another so variance could be a problem and does seem to be a problem for you. Thrones12 Hectorsmum2 - suggest that you follow up on the Thyroid UK form if you want more information on variants on that gene as there will be people more knowledgeable about that specific gene and variants than I am.

[Thrones12 in reply to Hectorsmum2]

good morning Hectorsmum2. Thank you for your input I too have thyroid symptoms but get no where with info on how best to treat I wouldn’t even know where to start especially right now when I’m feeling so grotty..I have previously been on the thyroid forum and read some good info but not feeling well enough to go any further myself. Take care x

[Wwwdot in reply to Gambit62]

what is T4 and T3? Sorry if it’s a basic question!

[Gambit62 Administrator in reply to Wwwdot]

Wwwdot apologies - Hormones produced by the thyroid so bit off topic for this forum.

[Wwwdot in reply to Gambit62]

no apology needed - good to learn! Thank you

[JanCymru in reply to Thrones12]

Regarding the genetic testing, can I ask where you went/sent for this please? (And hoping you feel a little better too soon).

[Thrones12 in reply to JanCymru]

hi Jan yes it was Regenerus Laboratories,if you have a google it’ll give you their website and you can gather any info you need. Best wishes.

[JanCymru in reply to Thrones12]

Thanks MrPeaccock, that's great. Best wishes, Jan

[wedgewood]

You can’t really compare the absorbability capabilities of B12 and other vitamins . ..B12 has a very complicated absorption pathway . Even if a good quantity shows up in a blood -test, that does not prove that it is is actually getting through to where us is needed , namely the cells. To absorb any B12 you need stomach acid and the Intrinsic Factor. As you have P.A. i doubt whether those capsules can help . I’ve not tried them , but if I were you I would . They can do no harm. which is good to know ! Stop injecting and try them . You will soon know if they are not helping . Best wishes .

[Thrones12 in reply to wedgewood]

yes that’s exactly why I’m wondering, my b12 level is 2000+ which because I have functional b12 (hence not getting into the cells) I’ve got to keep it high so as far as injections I won’t ever stop them but I wondered why the supplements immediately increase everything else levels but not b12. Your explanation is very good thank you. I think I’m doing ok with my b12 shots although I still hate doing them it’s the other stuff that concerns me I thought that maybe I’d got to that plateau where b12 was no longer improving me but keeping me at an acceptable level so I could cope but I have to admit to feeling washed out now,irons fine apparently, but I’m just not feeling good at all,not like when I first started b12 shots. I can only function for the mornings then I drop like a brick by lunchtimes..

It’s just trial and error constantly and with no medical help..anyway I will try these beef liver supplements and when I turn back into a spring chicken I’ll update lol many thanks x

[wedgewood in reply to Thrones12]

We do feel desperate at times , as you do at the moment . . But you can try those capsules without worrying that you might harm yourself.

[Wwwdot in reply to Thrones12]

Dearest Mr Peacock

What a highly educational and fascinating post - thank you. ⭐️

I really hope you pick up soon and find your joi de vie!

As a digression … I inject 1500ug every day yet my B12 which my GP keeps testing ( you have to laugh or you’d cry😂😂😂) and my blood report is B12 >1500 ng/L -is my GP using a different test with different procedures or is it just different units? Don’t mean to hijack your post just trying to understand.

Back to point and beef. Whenever friends or family are sick I make organic beef tea and they drink it, love it and get well. Just beef shin, black pepper and a bit of sea salt - I also add organic carrots to sweeten it. I could drink it by the gallon but can’t afford it!!! I really think you may be on to a winner 🤗🤗🤗

[Thrones12 in reply to Wwwdot]

many thanks Wwwdot that’s good to hear..I’ve got a good feeling about these supplements so I’ll give it a fair time then update in the hope that it’ll help others. Take care xx

[Wwwdot in reply to Thrones12]

you too MrPeacock 🤗🤗🤗

[mountmuir27]

As a possible caution keep an eye on your Vitamin A levels. I love Ancestral and was taking multiple of their products (Thymus, Bone Marrow, Liver). MD believes this is what caused my above range Vitamin A levels since liver is high in Vitamin A. Not 100% certain although I researched and found high intake of liver can cause Hypervitaminosis A. Something to track.

[Thrones12 in reply to mountmuir27]

thank you mountmuir27 I will only increase to 2-3 daily over a couple of weeks rather than the recomended 6 a day and I usually get my bloods tested every 3-6 months so I will monitor everything. I’m hoping for a positive outcome with these. Fingers crossed x

[Parlay]

they are absolutely fantastic. I use undefatted desiccated beef liver for the iron, folic acid and copper in them. Obviously absorption of the b12 is not available but they are an all round amazing supplement. I’m fact I won’t touch a supermarket or mainstream supplement I use food grade and ancestral.

[Thrones12 in reply to Parlay]

morning Parlay, thanks so much for that I was hoping for some user feedback about them so that’s great to hear it seems to be a great all rounder,it’s a big amount to lay out initially,£52 I paid, but there’s 180 capsules in it so if I stick to the 2-3 a day that works out quite comparable to what I was using ,I can then retest my levels in 3 months it’ll be very interesting to see the results. Many thanks x

[Parlay in reply to Thrones12]

they are a very clean supplement with no fillers or anti caking in them so nothing but good. I did start off slowly with them. When my iron was back upto good levels I carried on taking them but with food that hindered absorption of iron so I was getting all the other goodies without too much iron. My dog had pancreatitis really badly and the vet said he’d have to watch diet for life so I got him ancestral pancreas and he’s back on tip too form.

[Thrones12 in reply to Parlay]

that’s good to hear I hope he continues to thrive. I must research that one about the food that’ll hinder the iron because I have very high ferritin it’s about 560 right now, they tested for haemochromotosis was negative so I’m putting it down to inflammation because my kidney stones give me gip,again no help with that one from medics,my iron does drop very quickly so dr Chandy told me keep it in double figures but under 20 so that’s an easy guide for me,it’s so much like hard work trying to keep on top of it all that’s why I wanted one healthy supplement that would cover most of my needs without the nastys in it so fingers crossed. Thank you again and stay well xx

[Parlay in reply to Thrones12]

so what is it you need to raise if your iron and ferritin are at such good levels?

[Thrones12 in reply to Parlay]

my irons dropping as soon as I stop supplementing almost halves actually,last reading it had dropped from 19 to 10 ,,the ferritin has been very high for a few years now so no one seems to have much knowledge on why , it did drop down a couple of years ago from 650 to 400 I think if memory’s correct but it’s gone back up to 560 at last blood test. I’ve had so many private tests done ,scans too,but no one seems capable of joining the dots and only stick to their speciality nothinking outside the box and I’m too weary right now to do any more battles I’m looking for an easy fix to get my energy back up so I’m hoping this combination in that supplement improves how I’m feeling.

[B12life in reply to Parlay]

parlay, do you have to worry about overdosing iron on the liver supplements? How do you avoid that problem?

[Parlay in reply to B12life]

a few years ago my iron was so low I had really bad neuro symptoms and the Drs wanted to give me iron infusions. I had uterine polyps causing very heavy bleeding. I looked into it very deeply and contacted a specialist called Morley robins and he told me all about iron, copper, the need for retinol and vitamin to metabolise. So I took the undefatted desiccated beef liver for 6 months with pure vitamin c (Camu Camu powder is pure food grade vitamin c) and my levels were back where they should be. When I only want the other vitamins and minerals from the beef liver but don’t want to absorb the iron I take it with a cup of tea or something dairy to block the iron absorption.

[Gambit62 Administrator]

It is likely to be quite difficult to ensure you are getting a consistent dosage with the type of supplement you mention

[Baggy8]

well they certainly beat the raw minced liver that my grandmother drank daily, which gave her a fair few extra years… A B12 deficiency, whatever the cause really was pernicious in those days. We are so lucky to at least have the knowledge and ability to access the tools to help ourselves, in my case due very much to this forum. Just now need to wait for the day that the medical profession become as informed 😏

[KEFNB]

before I was diagnosed with PA, I was trying a myriad of supplements to get well I took Ancestral Liver capsules and even made my own liver capsules. We purchase a half of a grass-fed and finished cow regularly and I cut up and dehydrated that liver and took quite a bit of that. I never felt any different, but we know that was because I couldn’t utilize the B12 in the liver My guess it will help get your iron and other levels up.

[Thrones12]

thank you KEFNB

[humanbean]

my irons dropping as soon as I stop supplementing almost halves actually,last reading it had dropped from 19 to 10 ,,the ferritin has been very high for a few years now so no one seems to have much knowledge on why , it did drop down a couple of years ago from 650 to 400 I think if memory’s correct but it’s gone back up to 560 at last blood test.

If your serum iron levels are dropping rapidly while ferritin usually stays at quite high levels, then perhaps you have "Anaemia of Chronic Disease" or some other form of anaemia.

Haemoglobin is usually used to detect and diagnose anaemia.

Note you can be low or deficient in iron and/or ferritin and/or B12 and/or folate while still not being anaemic. But deficiencies and low levels of nutrients need to be treated with or without anaemia. Unfortunately, in my personal experience, doctors usually seem to wait for anaemia to develop before caring about the treatment of nutrient deficiencies or low levels.

irondisorders.org/anemia-of...

irondisorders.org/wp-conten...

If you scroll down on this link :

cks.nice.org.uk/topics/anae...

you'll see that haemoglobin levels used to diagnose anaemia vary depending on gender, age, pregnancy status and childbirth status.

I don't know if you've read this before, but it would be worthwhile knowing what it has to say, but I don't know how good or bad it is (I haven't read it myself) :

cks.nice.org.uk/topics/anae...

[Thrones12 in reply to humanbean]

hi humanbean thanks so much for the info I will have a good read later as I have a macular hole in my eye and it’s really difficult trying to focus on print etc just now and I’m very tired but I’m as always very grateful..xx

[Technoid]

I thought this was a fun video on the claims made in terms of evidence for these supplements:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=NwwNY...(Not working as expected?)