I hope this shocking news is just a hoax!

[Lunario]

Rotexmedica/Panpharma B12 Depot is no longer available?!

Today, I called the shopapotheke.de hotline because they delivered cyanocobalamin instead of hydroxocobalamin (could have been my mistake). I always order the large package, which as you know contains 100 ampules in 10 smaller packages.

The lady on the phone told me that Panpharma has taken the small packs off the market, as well as the large pack, which is currently only marked as out of stock, but is also being taken off the market soon.

So, the cyanocobalamin as a 100 pack they supplied was from a remaining stock. According to her information, Panpharma will stop the production of B12 Depot.

Only the cyanocobalamin will remain on the market, but only in packs of 10 ampules.

You can imagine how concerned I am now - not just for myself. The kind lady agreed when I said this is a disaster for so many PA patients, especially those in the UK who get their B12 from German online pharmacies (which she was aware of).

Rotexmedica B12 Depot has always been a cheap and reliable solution for us. What now? And maybe the more compulsive question is if the remaining companies will be able and willing to produce enough for all of us.

I still hope this is a temporary incident and that Panpharma will continue with Hydroxocobalamin in one or another way.

For the time being, there are two substitute products: Cevavit (1000µg/1ml) and Pascoe (1500µg/1ml). Both are available in packs of 10 ampules.

I have to clear my thoughts first, but next week I will contact them. It's 2 pm on a Friday anyway, no good time to reach somebody.

Anybody here who has other, respectively, better information?

Panpharma has offices in France, Germany, Norway and in the UK:

panpharma.eu/en/contact/

[wedgewood]

I’m shocked to read that . Panpharma have only recently started selling B12 under their name , although they bought Rotexmedica 2years ago . Hevert is another Hydroxocobalamin ampoule. it it’s a -1mg 2ml ampoule .Its easy go order Cynocobalamin instead of Hydroxocobalamin if you forget to stipulate B12 DEPOT ! I always use the PZN reference number which is 16199653.

I am really concerned about this Thanksfor letting us know !

[Lunario in reply to wedgewood]

EDITED: I moved this post further down.

[wedgewood]

In panic , I just ordered 100 without a problem from versandapo.de

[Lunario in reply to wedgewood]

Good that you could order some.

Always smart to use the PZN. I don't know what happened when I placed my order, but eventually that mistake revealed the Panpharma plans about B12 Depot. I hope this kind lady had incorrect information.

Because this forum gave so much to me, I feel being a part of the community and give back what I can. And even though it may cause panic, I felt obliged to share this information.

Time for another patient rebellion?!

[wedgewood in reply to Lunario]

It was right to let us know what you were told . Let’s hope that she was mis-informed ..Vitamins cannot be patented. It may well be that making patented medications is a lot more profitable . …….. There has to be a way round this … Yes, another petition is called for so that we can buy B12 ampoules OTC.

[Hamayeshguy in reply to wedgewood]

I think maybe something else is involved since its French company and maybe some legal issues causes withdrawal from the market. But other brands still in there. If french laws make it possible then they can sell it in french pharmacies without prescription or even make it OTC in some other countries like UK and Canada, USA.It seems to me its legal issues not patent or something else.

[Lunario in reply to wedgewood]

I looked at versandapo for PZN 16199653. If you click on "Packungsgröße" it shows only 10x1ml, not 100x1ml. I think we could deal with that. But when you look for 03862305 the page tells you that it's currently not available.

I asked the lady on the phone twice at least, because I couldn't believe what I heard.

[wedgewood in reply to Lunario]

I bought 10 x 10 packs .

[Narwhal10 in reply to wedgewood]

I bought yesterday from versandoapo.de 10 x10 x 1 ml and I always use the PZN.

I was feeling quite confident as didn’t even use google translate and my German consists of 3 words. Hopefully everything will be fine.

[Lunario in reply to Narwhal10]

I don't think you have to worry. Using the PZN is the safest way to identify a drug.

[Narwhal10 in reply to Lunario]

Thanks, yes, my attitude is generally see how you go. 😊

[wedgewood in reply to Narwhal10]

I’m sure all will be well , I just ordered with versandapo , and they immediately sent a confirmation ( I use PayPal .) They are very business -like . I noticed that the confirmation was sent from their online pharmacy in Duiven , Netherlands , although the main online pharmacy is near Leipzig . That’s something new .

[Lunario in reply to wedgewood]

However, there are alternatives such as Cefavit, Pascoe and Hevert (if you want to inject 2ml). This is the good part of the story. But I don't think that fewer manufacturers are good for us. I'm afraid of shortages when I am running out of B12.

[Lunario in reply to wedgewood]

And what shall I do now with all the cyanocobalamin? I mean, there is a reason why I decided for hydroxocobalamin. If I sent it back, they would have to destroy it. Somewhere I read that you should not use cyanocobalamin if you are a smoker or even ex-smoker (like me). Didn't Fbirder once mentioned that cyanocobalamin might be a case for withdrawal?

[wedgewood in reply to Lunario]

I believe that Cynocobalamin should not be used if you have had a certain liver disease , which I’m sure that you would know about ,if you had . Cynocobalamin is the B12 that is widely used in the the U,S.A. So, I can’t imagine that it has serious drawback. It is alleged that U.K. changed to Hydroxocobalamin, because it stays in the system for longer , so fewer injections are required .I’m sure that you could use them , but would probably have to inject more often .

[Lunario in reply to wedgewood]

Thanks for your reply. Perhaps one of the few things Fbirder was wrong about, I know that it's widely used in the U.S. and in Canada (where a bunch of my family lives). I wonder how often I would have to inject because currently I still self-inject every other day (since 09/2019). For a couple of weeks, I’m skipping Wednesdays, although. I’m trying to reduce the frequency and finally, I don’t want to make too many changes at a time because I want to address my thyroid issue first. There are overlapping symptoms I don’t want to mix up.

[wedgewood in reply to Lunario]

I would think that you could be OK with every other day . You are not aiming for the B12 to stay in your system for long when you inject eod. It would be an interesting exercise . I imagine you wouldn’t notice the difference. But it would be different if you were injecting weekly say .

[Lunario in reply to wedgewood]

I'll check the expiration dates, make a plan, and let you know if I see any difference. I used cyanocobalamin at the very beginning, and one thing I don't remember is whether it stings the way hydroxocobalamin sometimes does.

[wedgewood in reply to Lunario]

i think that B12 deficiency/ PA is just very complicated, and everyone has to find what suits them and helps them by trial and error . . There’s no help from doctors , we are on our own . It’s hell for some people .

[mcg-woo in reply to Lunario]

I used cyano in the beginning too and I do remember it being more comfortable during injections. However, those injections were SC. I also later had it in the muscle and can’t remember if it felt differently? I believe the comfort of injection and the fact that cyano can be injected SC is the reason cyano is the b12 of choice in the US. Hydroxo from Actavis, which is what’s available in the US states it must be injected IM. Just a theory I have. It also appears Actavis hydroxo is made by only one lab in Portugal that produces batches and then shuts down for a period of time—which appears to be the reason for intermittent shortages of the drug in the US. I live in constant fear of when this happens. Wish there was another way to source hydroxo in the US.

[jade_s in reply to mcg-woo]

Some german pharmacies will ship to the US. For exactly that reason I send my US relatives a stock of hydroxy for if/when another Actavis shortage materializes.

[waveylines in reply to Lunario]

Lunario Im finding I too have to inject twice daily. I can get away with the odd day once daily but if I do that more than once I wake with numb toes and urine incontinence. Been on twice daily for 18 months. Sadly cant see that changing.

[Hamayeshguy in reply to wedgewood]

I tried that and I think megadoses of timed release methylcobalamin work far better than cyanocobalamin injection actually injection of it didn't work for me at all and it didn't improve any of my symptoms but I'm just surprised why megadoses of methylcobalamin timed release work so well and improves my symptoms so fast. I'm wondering why there is no any protocol for that? I think its so effective along with active b complex and watching feritin too. and afterwards any physical activity help to improve symtpoms. In the meantime people with low tolerance to frequent injection should take this kind of pills and it help to improve tolerance so fast

[waveylines in reply to Hamayeshguy]

What is timed released methylcolabamin and where would you get it? Never heard of timed release injections.

[helvella in reply to waveylines]

I read that as time release oral methylcobalamin.

Mind, that doesn't make much sense to me. We usually accept that B12 absorption, whether in conjunction with Intrinsic Factor or using some sort of diffusion of a high dose, is absorbed around the terminal ileum.

You'd expect a timed release mechanism to slowly release over a few hours. It would probably only take minutes to pass the terminal ileum. Only what has already been released would be available, with the rest being released too late.

Obviously, you could come up with ideas as to what happens. For example, a quirk of the chosen timed release mechanism could release most of it just before the terminal ileum and result in a particularly high local concentration. Or methylcobalamin released further down the gut can still be absorbed. I have just looked at it thinking about the usual claims that timed release mechanisms release fairly evenly over quite a long time.

[waveylines in reply to helvella]

Ahhh you may well be right there Helvella that they are oral. Ive already done the megadosing of methyl tablets.....stop the I found the best but they failed on me.....and are very expensive far more than an injection. I did once try methyl injections......which are also expensive but didnt notice any difference between that and hydrox.

[Hamayeshguy in reply to waveylines]

It is pill not injection

[waveylines in reply to Hamayeshguy]

😄😉 thanks thats what helvella said. Glad they're working for you.

[SigNi in reply to Hamayeshguy]

I’d love to know about time released methlyc as well. 😊

[helvella in reply to Lunario]

One reason not to use cyanocobalamin is Leber Hereditary Optic Neuropathy (LHON) - but I believe you would know if you had that.

As a former smoker, I do think that hydroxocobalamin might actually help clear out whatever you take in - the very same arguments as are invoked for using Cyanokit to treat other smoke inhalation.

[Lunario in reply to helvella]

Right, I didn't have Cyanokit on my mind. Thanks for this reminder.

[Pixielula in reply to Lunario]

I accidentally ordered 100 ampoules of cyanocobalamin, I thought I had ordered hydroxy. I have been using it to no ill effect. Seems to work the same and I’m still injecting once a week.

[Kp1_23 in reply to wedgewood]

Would you mind telling me how? I always order for my nan but the site is telling me I have to enter a German address and I can’t find a way around it

[wedgewood in reply to Kp1_23]

Ordering B12 depot from versandapo.de

It is always advisable to register when you order fot the first time . First of all, once registered , you will save time when ordering subsequently. Also versandapo.de run a points scheme if you are registered . You are given 200 points when you register and you are awarded 1point for every Euro you spend . 250 points represent €2.50 which you can use when you pay. Once registered , you can find out how many points you have accumulated by going into your account .

To register or log in , click on the little silhouette of a head and shoulders ( top right) and fill out the form . ITS VERY IMPORTANT TO FILL IN YOUR COUNTRY BEFORE YOU ADD THE REST OF YOUR ADDRESS . Click on the drop-down list of countries. U.K. is written in German as “ VEREINIGTES KÖNIGREICH ( United Kingdom)

Once you have done that , your U.K. postal code will be accepted by the computer . You will need to put in a password of course .

You can pay by PayPal or Bank transfer . Cards are not accepted .

For future orders , you need to click on the silhouetted head and shoulders to log in .

You can use the pharmaceutical reference number to order Panpharma B12 depot ( Hydroxocobalamin) This is 16199653 . You get straight to the item . Panpharma do not sell the clinic packs of 100 ampoules . The ampoules usually have a use-by date of 2 years .

Hope this helps you

[Lunario]

Have a look at this, but it comes in 2ml amp.:

docmorris.de/vitamin-b12-de...

[Hamayeshguy]

But in search box it shows b12 depot availability? panpharma 100 pcs ampoule are mostly unavilable everywhere but not 10 pcs ampoule

[deniseinmilden]

Hi!

Thank you and wedgewood for your alert and careful research on our behalf.

I think Pascoe have always produced 1mg in 1ml ampoules as well as the 1.5mg in 1ml ones because I've always had to be careful to make sure I get the stronger ones that enable me to only SI once daily.

The Pascoe ones are very good quality (I used to feel they were better quality than the Rotexmedica ones, obviously allowing for the difference in strength) so are highly recommended.

I wonder what the NHS will use? Maybe their cutting back on injections this past 18 months has precipitated this change for Panpharma? I know they do still use a considerable number of ampoules a year so will surely have a useful contract to at least one supply company. I wonder if the lockdown of beauty treatment places since covid has had any impact on the overall demand? I only said a couple of days ago that our erratic buying patterns because of Brexit must have caused the production companies a nightmare and this, coming in conjunction with the NHS's covid rules nonsense, must have reduced demand and made the producers question the viability of their lines. I'm only speculating though and it could be due to other or additional factors.

I would suggest that there must be an increasing number of people in the world who SI due to the likes of this forum and Facebook so it must be useful business to some companies so I hope if one ceases production, another will absorb their additional business. 🤞

[VellBlue]

Interesting and concerning... Here in India the manufacturer of hydroxocobalamin ampoules has also stopped producing it. I wonder why...

[WorkingProgress]

This is extremely worrying news I pray it is only temporary as I SI daily for a month to pick me up and EOD for a couple of months. Thats my cycle thst works. There is zero help from the medical profession here in the UK.

[waveylines]

Is it all due to a shortage of glass ampoules? I know in the uk they reduced vit D testing because of an ampoule shortage. Or am I getting confused?

[helvella in reply to waveylines]

Very different things. Though, I have no idea if the glass is the same - or not.

It was blood collection tubes which were the problem.

[waveylines in reply to helvella]

I know but just wondering if the same is happening to b12 ampoules.....but weird to stop.oroduction as far afield as India..... .

[helvella in reply to waveylines]

There is, it appears, a worldwide issue with pharmaceutical glass - lots went into vaccine manufacture. But it is a different fundamental shortage!

Many medicines supplied in ampoules are or have been short.

[waveylines in reply to helvella]

Thanks Helevella.....clearly a problem whether its due to glass, stock problems or the focus being on vaccine production or the effects of the pandemic across the world. Bit scary as I wonder if other medications are affected.

[helvella in reply to waveylines]

Definitely - e.g. lidocaine as used in dentistry.

[waveylines in reply to helvella]

Ih crikey am due at the dentist for some treatment soon! 🙈

[VellBlue in reply to waveylines]

Don't think it'd be the glass ampoules. It's just the manufacturer of Hydroxocobalamin that has stopped here in India, but Methylcobalamin is still being made. Interestingly cyanocobalamin is not available in India any more either, but not sure how long that has been.

[waveylines in reply to VellBlue]

Sounds like its all a knock on effect of the pandemic...Lol. Last year building materials shortage....ongoing I believe. This year pharmaceuticals....

[Divine1990]

Hi I think shopapotheke.de now have Rotexmedica/Panpharma B12 depot available 10 x1ml .🤞

[Rainbo06]

What is the difference between the two ?

[Divine1990 in reply to Rainbo06]

It is my understanding that Panpharma acquired Rotexmedica and acted as a subsidiary. Panpharma will however be changing the name.

[Lunario]

healthunlocked.com/pasoc/po...

[G_Jones]

I bought the rotexmedica from this site a couple of months ago - they no longer seem to have it - I did find another brand though - anyone used this brand before ?

pharmasana.co.uk/b12-ankerm...

[Seaspray1998]

Nothing to worry about, you have either Hevert 100x1ml or Pasco, plenty of other German pharmacies that still deliver to the UK

[Lunario in reply to Seaspray1998]

Thanks for your reply, but this is an outdated post.