Have been on the versandapo site and there are so many boxes of B12 being displayed can anybody advise me which is the best one. I am looking for Hydroxocobalmin as my doctor gives me now. Also can I get the syringes from this site?
Info appreciated.
Thank you.
versandapo.de/article/detai...
English info leaflet as they come with a German one.
medicines.org.uk/emcmobile/...
Just a quickie...patient information leaflet is for a different brand of hydroxocobalamin...excipients (additives etc) contained in the Roxmedica brand may differ (or may not)...no way of knowing, but might be significant if allergies are a problem.
Also - and just so that you're aware - brand manufacturers' information and instructions can differ - even for what appears to be the same vitamin - or drug - odd as it may sound 😖😀). Differences may be minor so...
Not a problem unless there's a problem - and then the manufacturers' hold the trump card (or their leaflet does) 😉
Notwithstanding, very thoughtful of you to provide Steap.
👍
Thank you for the info.
Thank you for leaflet.
Thank you for leaflet, I have printed it off for future reference.
Hi SusanMargaret47
You can get needles and syringes from medisave.co.uk (get 2ml syringes (only 1ml of liquid to draw up but you'll need the extra space to 'manoeuvre' - 1ml in 1ml syringe difficult to manage when drawing up and tapping out air bubbles - not enough space). I use the BD Plastipak 2ml syringes.
Needles - green needle (21g x 1.5") for drawing up and blue needle (23g 1.25") for injecting - if you're intending to inject IM (into the muscle). I use the BD Microlance needles 😄. (If you're going to inject SC, get the orange needles instead of the green - 25g x 1")
You'll also need to get a Sharps Disposal Bin.
Good luck 👍
Sorry to butt into the conversation, but is there any reason (other than the possibility of blunting the needle) why a separate needle is used to draw up the solution?
Many thanks
Hi Cassie0707.
Separate needles because:
Possible blunting (as you say)
Some injectable substances can be irritating and any drops left on the needle or bevel may be introduced into the subcutaneous tissue and cause irritation or burning (some B12 can be a bit stingy 😖)
Best practice in terms of aseptic technique...reduces the small possibility of contamination via the drawing up needle.
👍
Thank you for your reply Foggyme, very useful information. Does the larger drawing up needle make it easier to get the B12 into the syringe? that's the bit I find difficult - I thought I read somewhere its because the surface tension of B12 - but I could have dreamt it!!
Thanks again, much appreciated
Hi Cassie0707. The green needle has a larger bore so yes, easier to draw up than if you used a blue needle.
When you put the needle into the ampoule/B12, pull the syringe plunger all the way back so that all the lovely B12 is hoovered up into the syringe. If you don't get all the B12 first time (just happens like that sometimes) upend the syringe, expel any air in the syringe by pushing in the plunger ('cause air always sneaks in when sucking up), then repeat the sucking up activity. And so on until all the B12 is in the syringe.
If you'd prefer, you could always buy some large white needles for drawing up the B12.
No idea about surface tension...suspect that once the needle has broken the surface and entered the B12, then the surface tension is broken...but who knows 😉.
Good luck 👍
Thanks Foggyme, will try your suggestion. I have not been in the habit of pulling the plunger all the way back as soon as the needle is in the ampoule, just been pulling it very gradually until its at the top but never managed yet to 'hoover' it all up. Will give it a try.
Many thanks, much appreciated
Good luck with the hoovering 😀. Come back if you have any more problems 👍
I will, thank you. Practice makes perfect as they say but the fine sensory loss in my fingers may be contributing to my stupidity!!!!!
I'm having the same problem Cassie. In spite of practising, still having diffficulty in getting all the B12 up into syringe 😳
Keep at it Polaris. You'll soon get the knack. And it's really no problem if it takes a couple of hoovers to get it all.
Hope the injections are making a difference 😀
Thanks for the tips and encouragement Foggyme - was going to say yes, Injections making a difference until I noticed the reply I thought I'd posted to you hadn't gone through and I lost it - doh!
Tired after two long walks at the weekend but, generally, have noticed subtle improvements in energy, mood, motivation and tiredness. Dizziness gone but still tingling - good to feel B12 is working though 🤗
No problem Polaris . The good news is that where small improvements take place, more are likely to follow (Neuro ones just seem to take longer, pesky little things). So keep up the good work...💉
And know what you mean about replies disappearing. Happens to me sometimes...usually when I've bashed out something long to a new member...very frustrating 😖.
Take care x
Not exactly glad you are having the same problem, just relieved its not just me!! Am going to try Foggyme's method otherwise I might practice with some water and see if I can get 'the knack'. Thought I would have problems with injections but experienced none at all.
Good luck
Not just you Cassie and, like you, I find the actual Injection (sub cut) not a problem. I've been practising with beetroot coloured water but will also try Foggyme's tip.
Hope all goes well for you too
Here's a good selection versandapo.de/en/substance/...
My thanks to you all.
I am getting this as back up in case I do not get any joy for extra injections from my doctor. I don't think I can inject myself so will have to go privately maybe. I need to be trained to do it pity there isn't somewhere you can be shown how to s.i.
I do currently have my injections into the arm muscle by my surgery nurse.
Re all the different boxes of B12 on the versandapo site, I wondered if one was better than the other, as they seem to vary in price and size, i.e. Some 10 x 1 ml. 100 x 1 ml, 5 x 2 ml, 10 x 2 ml.
I would just like to purchase the same as I am given by my surgery, as I do not experience any problems with that, and as I understand it that is Hydroxocobalmin.
With best wishes.
You can find a video on u tube showing you how to self inject Ito your thigh . You really don't need training . I started by practising on an orange ! The thigh is the best place for self injecting into the muscle . Middle outside third is the place to get the muscle.
Some people use sub- cutaneous method, with success , which means a smaller needle . Then I think into the tummy , but I'm not sure . The choice is yours . I chose I. M. Because that's what the doctors use , and I assume that they choose the best method.
Do not be afraid to self inject . You will get into it very quickly . For injection by I.M. chose a very fine needle (I use 25 gauge and 1" long) absolutely painless ! Best wishes to you .
Thank you for your reply and confidence. Wish I felt the same however I hope to try it! Frightens me to death.
Hi SusanMargaret47
A suggestion re: learning to SI. I asked my GP if she would allow a practice nurse to teach me SI and I do so now. Worth a try. Good luck.
Thank you, I go beginning of May so will ask my nurse if she thinks Dr will agree to showing me.
Thank you all for your time and help. Hopefully I will pluck up the courage.
Oranges, here I come.
Hi SusanMargaret47 I have a terriblle needle phobia so I purchased an auto-injector from Union Medico which does IM and I swear by it! It just makes it so easy. It is not cheap (£78 roughly) but is very sturdy and only one i found could do IM. You can do this, it is good to take back some control. 
That sounds better will go on line. So how does it work?
Galadriel1
Thank you very much. Have been on union medico site and asked for info. It certainly looks very much more promising for me and will let you know in due course how I get on. Very grateful for your help. They seem to have varying ones and varying prices, to be honest the money side doesn't worry me as long as I can use it.
Great help, best wishes.
Hi SusanMargaret47 sorry I've been away, I use the unionmedico 90 one, that comes in different colours. It is just as easy to go straight to doing IM as it is just the press of the button and the needle is in and I find it easy and painless (odd sting sometimes as it goes in - probably the alcohol swabs) but quick and easy and then you just inject slowly. I would suggest you do IM as that is what is recommended and SC does not work for everyone, some people have no benefit until they move to IM, but it is a personal choice. If I can do IM with this injector anyone can. There is no difference in that it puts the needle straight in so you are not injecting yourself really, you just push the plunger very very slowly and there is no pain, better than the nurses at surgery! That's the cheaper one too as it happens. You choose your syringe size so I suggest you go for the 3ml so you have room to manouver and aspirate properly, they make the injector grips to fit the size of syringe and injection needle you choose, so you will need to use same syringes (although can buy them here cheaper once you have the injector). If doing IM you want the Blue 23G, if skinny the 1" one if got a bit of fat on thighs the 1.25" one. Don't know for Sub-cut. Hope that helps.
I self-inject subcutaneously into the flesh of my stomach, using a 'yellow' needle. I use a green one to draw up the B12 from the ampoule. You simply pinch a bit of flesh on one side of your belly button (having first swabbed it with a mediswab thingy) and then gently ease the tiny needle in at an angle. It's so easy and virtually painless (just a little prick!) and as someone who NEVER thought in a million years they could self-inject, I'm now confident and happy to do so. And the feeling of being in control of your own health is wonderful! I've read that SC is as good as IM, and much easier to do to yourself. Good luck!
Some people do ok on SC but many get little or no benefit and the auto-injector does it for you so easily if you are laying out that money you do want maximum benefit really, but it is a personal choice. I have needle phobia and I inject IM with the auto-injector very easy and painless.
Hi my reply was based on the postings on the many forums where some people do get on fine but it seems a lot get very little and there have been people who felt no benefit from it and noticed a big difference when they moved to IM. Obviously if that is the recommended way (i.e. that's what is in all the guidelines) if you can do it then you don't have to worry about how well or not the injections are working. I read a lot of the forums in the quest to learn more and as I said some do feel some benefit while others don't so it is a personal choice.
Galadriel
I really appreciate all of your help.
I am not what I would call fat, so will I be ok doing it into my muscle on my top thigh/leg. I always have it in arm muscle at the surgery, and as they do IM I would rather stick to that, but do not quite see how I can si in my arm.
So I need to have the 3 ml, blue 23G and needle 1.25". I thought I would still keep up with the surgery and work the extra injection around the surgery one.
As I understand you cannot have too much B12, or is that not correct.
Yes, keep going to surgery so it all stays on your record. And no you cannot have too much B12, you wee out what you don't need. You do the IM in your thigh and there are several you tube videos you can watch to help you get this right. It is the upper outer quarter of your thigh.
Yep, some people do feel fine and happy with sub-cut, others I have read use sub-cut but feel they need more, there are others who feel only slight benefit and even others who felt they got no benefit from it, but that has only been a couple, but many feel the difference when they switch to IM. This is based on what people on forums are saying. I read several forum not just this one and my answer was based on comments on the many forums discussing B12d/PA and self injecting. They are all on FB. Can't remember names of each of by heart byt there is the Vitamin B12 Wake Up and there is one called vitamin B12 international I think and about another three that I read the posts on. There is lots of personal experiences out there and I was summarising what I have read from other sufferers experience. I love this forum but there are others too and many people's experiences. My reading of others made me decide to inject IM from the start in case I was unable to make myself do it if I started on Sub-Cut and it wasn't effective enough. Just giving myself best chance. It is in all guidelines as IM and a B12 research group who wrote an open letter to forums warning of using sub-linguals, sprays, patches etc. as they are not a replacement for IM injections and they state that they do not even use in research and they may raise levels without actually helping with neuropathy. Don't ask me to direct you to it, it has been on all the sites and may even be in the files here.... you'll have to research it for yourself. we are all only learning from each other and our personal experiences... it is basically a straw poll so do what is right for you.
No. A warning that sub-cut may be less effective than IM is not on 'all the sites'. Indeed, I can't find anything on any site (except for baseless speculation) that says IM is preferable to sub-cut.
People fearful of IM may read this and worry that injecting sub-cut (which they find less scary) isn't going to work for them.
It will.
Hi, I have edited and taken out the part you object to, I read the letter from the research facility more than once and it did express concerns over the use of sprays, sub-linguals etc. but as I can't find it at the moment to refer to I have removed the part about it. I will try to find it again when I have time and send it to you. I know it exists but brain not letting me remember where to find it... not trying to frighten anyone, just know that I was wary of sub-cut not working so well and being unable to make myself do IM (needle phobia) so better to do IM from the start. There is so many groups and so much input that we all can only go by others experiences, a straw poll at best. Sorry if I came across in the wrong way. Was only trying to help. I will choose my words more carefully in future.
The article you refer to sounds like the linked post from Stichting Tekort.
Believe me, it has no mention of SC being worse than IM.
Oh, no it doesn't that wasn't what I was referring to. Sorry, what I said was that I had read a lot of accounts on the forums and was relaying some of what other sufferers had put in the forums, some people didn't feel much benefit from sub-cut and even a couple have said they felt no benefit and noticed the difference when they injected IM as I said it's a straw poll of what I read (other sufferers stories) which led me to decide to inject IM in case I didn't have much benefit from Sub cut and also want to inject as little as possible. Sorry for the misunderstanding, my brain was obviously not functioning properly and my meaning was not clear. I didn't say it was worse, I said that some people felt it did not benefit them as much as IM and some not at all, others seem happy with it, it is up to each of us to read and research other people's experiences and then decide what is best for us. I didn't want to risk it not working as well for me. Hope this explains what I meant to say.
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