Is there any connection between B12 deficiency & Vitamin D or K2 deficiency

[KTMac]

As my GP is testing me for Vit D as well as treating the B12

[Gambit62 Administrator]

There are lots of different causes of B12 deficiency - leaving aside not having enough in the diet - there are various things that can go wrong in the digestive tract and stop you absorbing it ... and it would seem reasonable if you are having problems asborbing B12 then you may be having problems with other vitamins so reasonable to check.

Personally I'm not aware of a direct link but that doesn't mean that there isn't one - just that I'm not an expert.

Its also true that the symptoms of B12 deficiency show a huge amount of overlap with other conditions ... and even if you are B12 deficient that doesn't rule out the other possibilities.

Hope this helps ... and looking forward to learning from others if there is a direct link

[Poppet11 in reply to Gambit62]

I'm not falling for that.

Yes, a lot of people who are b12 deficient are d3 deficient.

What I can say about the other deficiencies I had - thyroid (absolutely borderline for treatment) D3 (rock bottom) and another one - what's the other one - the one they are faddy about (you can tell I'm tired - my words have gone!) Anyway they all normalised after I had b12 treatment and increased stomach acid levels.

Cholesterol!!!! That's the one.

[Clutter in reply to Poppet11]

Poppet, We bang on about ferritin, vitD, B12 and folate because they often become low in the year or so prior to a hypothyroid diagnosis. I think it's very likely due to gut absorption issues.

[Maxfactor1]

Hi,

All I know is that along with my PA I also have folate, iron and yes......vitamin d deficiency!

[KTMac]

Thanks Guys, so it's not daft to consider it - but it mightbe a symptomrather than a cause?

[Poppet11]

Yes, KT.

The problem with D3 is that it is not a vitamin in the true sense of the word. It is a hormone synthesized from sunlight (for the most part) so it cannot directly be affected by malabsorption - yet it appears in conjunction with all these other linked problems that are indicative of malabsorption issues.

So, yes, it is linked to b12 deficiency, it is linked to malabsorption issues, but it isn't an absorbable vitamin. (Although you do absorb a little through tuna etc)

[Gambit62 Administrator]

The D Vitamins are linked to healthy bone production.

There is some evidence linking B12 deficiency to osteoporosis (but that is through the effect B12 has on cell reproduction) (came across that in some reading last night)

Vitamin K deficiency is also linked to osteoporosis ... but also to poor clotting.

Do you have any symptoms that could indicate that you have osteoporosis (brittle bones)?

May be worth asking the GP what she is looking for if you can bear it - though know that is difficult when you are probably contending with brain fog and fatigue from B12D

[Poppet11 in reply to Gambit62]

Oooh, ooohh. See. Ooohhhhh.

Remember one thing - D3 is the good guy. If your d3 levels are low despite the fact you get sun exposure, the levels are low for a REASON. D3 is protecting you from further harm.

I know in this case it is slightly different - but remember that D3 is the GOOD GUY.

[Arunps in reply to Poppet11]

I am really interested to know your hypothesis on what few reasons that would be favourable with los vitamin D. This is a important information for me to understand about the nutrition on whole. Thanks in advance.

[Marz]

VitD improves the production of calcium and K2 enables the calcium to be directed into the correct places. Too much calcium circulating in the blood can influence heart health in a negative way at times. B12 involved in the formation of bone marrow required for healthy bones....

Low VitD is implicated in many chronic conditions and every one of the 10 trillion cells in the body has a receptor for D3 as they do for T3 - which explains a lot in my book.

There was a letter sent out by the Chief Medical officer of Health to ALL health Practitioners informing them about VitD and who should be tested. I personally think it is so important that ALL people should be tested. Prevention is better than cure....

gov.uk/government/publicati...

vitamindcouncil.org/health-...

Hope the tests go well....

[Poppet11]

So why do people in California who sunbathe report with low d3 levels?

.... and if you look at your first paragraph you actually contradict yourself. Look at the first two sentences.

[Poppet11]

I think as well it may help to look at the whole issue of deficiencies from a cummulative perspective.

Feel free to add things or correct me:

What the general population seems to be suffering from at the moment is:

Low vitamin d3

Low K2 (and K3 I saw yesterday)

Low b12

Low calcium

Low iron

Low folate

Low zinc

Thyroid problems

High cholersterol

Diabetes

Asthma

Auto immune conditions

Neurological disorders of unknown cause

Autism

Depression (and a multitude of other mental health issues)

Food allergies/intolerances

IBS

...and the solution to all of these problems tends to be the same - take something to rectify the imbalance. Identify the problem and treat the individual problem. And the dosages have to be mega dosages. Far more than the body would need if it was functioning correctly.

Shouldn't we be asking ourselves what is going wrong - particularly when we get cases such as ours where we have identified we not only have one of the issues, but several. Should we really jump on every government warning when they approach one of these issues as exactly that, an individual issue?

Should we not be looking at causation? After all the government hadn't even twigged to the fact that neurological damage precedes anaemia in b12 deficiency. They have been barking up the wrong tree for decades.

Have we got such unhealthy livestyles, diets and attitudes that we are bringing all these things upon ourselves - I don't think so. We could improve our livestyles, diets and attitudes but I don't think they are responsible for all of the above issues.

As the b12 issue has shown me, we need to question things more before we react. If I look at that list and I had acted on the advice I was given (and that is still being given by some) I would be taking a massive amount of medication and supplements today. Which is a contradiction because I was only prescribed 50mcgs of b12 and 5 mgs of folic acid. So I'd be dead.

Presumably of a neurological illness of unknown cause....

[elkievin]

Will read and place BMJ aticle in front of my GP. I have had to go private to Haematologist as GP dragging heels and not giving enough B12 no loading doses keep being told once a bucket is full doesn't matter how much you add it is full.. Vit D3 below normal Iron and Haemoglobin both below normal. Had neurological problems for approx. 4 years and no one cares. People look at me as if I'm a hypochondriac feel like it too sometimes. GP keeps researching how depressed I am, I stated that I am depressed as not being listened to and because of memory, lack of focus etc feel stupid too. Oh woe is me.

[Poppet11 in reply to elkievin]

You could point out your bucket has pipes leading into the central heating system and one of the radiators has a leak?

Well, he started it with the analogies!

He doesn't get it. He doesn't understand. I know it doesn't help you any, but he really doesn't understand.

Try the BMJ article and see if gets you anywhere - I'm living in hope that Drs are going to start learning about this simply because their colleagues are and they won't want to look stupid. Once the word is out and the majority are accepting there are problems the rest will have to follow.

[Foxy07 in reply to elkievin]

Wow this sounds too familiar to me, I have been experiencing very similar problems. In the end I asked to see a hormone/menopause specialist, funny how after this suggestion she suggested vit B12 injections, I had my first one today, I have another 5 loading injections booked in.

I too have had to wait years, my problems got so bad that they started to affect my memory. Don’t take no for an answer, go back to your doctor and asked for a second opinion. Good luck

Xxx

[Leilanilea]

Poppett, and interested others here. Just curiosity, as I'm slowly learning a bit about UK healthcare. Do you think the article published by CDC would make any positive impression on UK healthcare providers? The one titled "Why Vitamin-12 Deficiency Should Be On Your Radar Screen?" Thanks

[Hidden]

There is a link unfortunately, loads of info in this topic, see:

pernicious-anaemia-society....

One should be aware that pernicious anaemia is associated with an increased risk of osteoporotic fractures, but the mechanism is unknown, altered stomach acidity will alter uptake of vitamins and minerals and recycling and uptake via bile is also an issue etc.

I have low bone density, it will most probably get worse.. take meds that will inhibit vit d/k etc uptake but that uptake is already compromised in my case. its all not easy to get things right. The Adcal I was given was just a no for me, but in the end osteoporosis is not nice either. Best prevent what you can..I'm sticking my head in the sand here I know.

[Galixie]

It's been a couple of years since I last read about the subject, but I remember reading that vitamin D deficiency has been found to be linked to autoimmune diseases. However, the researchers aren't sure exactly what the relationship is. It's sort of a chicken and egg question of which came first; the autoimmune disease or the vitamin D deficiency.