Repost for those who might be interested. My mucuna protocol! What you eat and when you eat is critical in the effectiveness of mucuna! I was on Carbidopa levodopa 25 100 for about 6 months and I weaned off completely in about a week. I just did it on my own because I was anxious to get started with the natural supplement. I started out with one eighth of a teaspoon that I mixed in water. I happen to have a 1/8 teaspoon that's why I used it Lord knows where I got it. I was trying to duplicate the same relief time I got from the synthetic levodopa roughly 4 hours. It didn't take long before I figured out 3/8 of a teaspoon worked for me. I mixed it with water then and now I use green tea. There's an enzyme in green tea that aids in getting the mucuna across the blood-brain barrier similar to what the Carbidopa does. Here is my routine. My start time is based on my job so it may be different for you. 9 a.m. on an empty stomach I take my first dose if you're a coffee drinker I find it works well with coffee just don't mix with milk because it has too much protein. I use almond milk the one gram of protein per cup doesn't seem to affect it. As soon as the mucuna kicks in roughly 30 minutes I eat breakfast. Each dose is roughly 4 hours apart my next dose would be 1pm and then 5pm. I don't usually eat lunch but if you do again eat right after your 1pm dose kicks in! The idea is your food is digested before you take the mucuna. You want the mucuna (l-dopa) to cross the blood-brain barrier and to get into your central nervous system without competing with other proteins in doing so. Two years later I'm using the same amount 3/8 of a teaspoon. You should see results right away! By the way there's a lot of different kinds of mucuna out there I use what came highly recommended to me. Nutrivitashop.Com search for l-dopa and it comes in bulk powder form they claim roughly 98% pure. It's the only mucuna I have ever used. I also buy my green tea Japanese matcha from nutrivitashop it's inexpensive and organic. I use a large mason jar I make up a batch of green tea for the day or so. I also makeup my mucuna in small mason jars and don't mix the green tea into it till I'm ready to take it. I only mix in about 4 ounces or less of the green tea Shake It Up try not to leave too much residue in the jar. I use very little green tea because I don't want to take in too much caffeine throughout the course of the day. Be prepared even to this day I get nauseous once in awhile it comes with the territory it will pass in about a half hour. As you can see it requires a little discipline and routine but that's what it takes to do it naturally! I have now added vitamin B1 to my routine and that is a whole nother successful story! One thing at a time! I hope I have answered all your questions good luck and keep me posted! Steven
Mucuna my natural protocol: Repost for... - Cure Parkinson's
Mucuna my natural protocol
Hi how long have you had Parkinson’s?
11 years. Noticed symptoms at 47 years old I will be 58 in August
Steven , diagnosed at 50yrs
Yes but I had it since 47 when I noticed I wasn't swinging my arm
We are the same age and diagnosed at same time
The same age , first symptoms at 48 years old.
47 I'll be 58 on the 19th of August
Thank you Steven. Great post once again.
Thank you! What type and milligrams are you taking on the green tea extract? Do you take it with the mucuna?
Do you still use the same protocol? Do you have worsening symptoms? Thank you.
New here, so hello! I was diagnosed 2 years ago in December, noticed my first symptoms 6 months prior to that, which were mostly inner tremors and muscle weakness in my right leg. I turn 58 this month.
Hello Ally925, I remember 8 years ago at 50 years old sitting in the waiting room of my neurologist waiting for a second opinion looking around me and seeing everybody not looking too good. I was scared to death that it was going to be me in the not- so distant future! When I finally met my neurologist for the first time he said to me don't look at others you don't know what they have and over the next 20 years you may progress very little and that everybody is different. If I give you any advice it would be to always remain positive, stay in shape, eat right and enjoy your life! On the other hand if you need any help or advice using mucuna if that's what you're thinking I and many others on this forum would be more than happy to help you! Steven
Hi Steven, thank you for your warm welcoming reply. I actually started taking Mucuna around 6 months after my initial diagnosis when I decided to see a functional medicine doctor aside from my regular neurologist, who hadn’t prescribed any meds for me yet as my symptoms were so mild in the beginning. (Just an inner tremor in my right leg and some muscle weakness - I’m a nanny and I first noticed something was wrong when I couldn’t bounce the baby on my right leg.) Like you, I was completely shocked at my initial visit with my neurologist who after some simple motor tests including watching me walk, told me I likely had one of three things going on: Multiple Sclerosis, Parkinson’s Disease, or least likely of all, a brain tumor! (And here I was expecting it might be a pinched nerve!) So he ordered an MRI and I was sent home with three very scary possible diagnoses which wouldn’t be determined until after the procedure. Dec. 1, 2018 was the day I was told I have Parkinson’s Disease. Since that day my progression has been relatively slow. I’ve developed a resting hand tremor and my sleep can be unpredictable. My handwriting has definitely worsened and I get fatigued easily. My functional med doctor has just upped my Mucuna powder dosage from 1 tsp. (1.6 g) to double that taken morning and night. I take my Mucuna dosages with 1 capsule of EGCG (225 mg) made from decaffeinated green tea extract. I’m also taking Liposomal Glutathione, Vit D3, a good B vit complex, and Vit C with Quercetin. I’m currently mixing my Mucuna powder in my morning coffee and in CALM (a magnesium supplement) in the evening. It wasn’t until recently that I realized eating protein along with my Mucuna might hinder its effectiveness. I was researching info about that when I came across this site. Happy to be here! 
Sounds like you can help me. LOL you're not from the New York area by any chance are you? I could use a good natural doctor
I live in Colorado. 😊
Colorado what a beautiful place!
It truly is! 😊
Hi, what brand of mucuna are you taking ? Thanks !
Dopatropic Powder made by Biotics Research
Nutrivitashop.com search for l-dopa I Buy the 250 gram bag roughly $62
how long does the 250 grams last?
I don't know exactly there was a time when I used to date the bag but if I had to guess roughly 4 months
George has only taken Mucuna, mostly in pill form, but it takes it with 5-htp, and L-Tyrosine. He has to take it with meals at the beginning of the day. If he takes it without food, he gets nauseous and sick. Later in the day, mid day, he can take it without meals and doesn't get sick. Everyone is different. Good for you!
Yes I know . There are times when I get very nauseous and don't know why . I don't experiment a lot because I need to work. I'm sure I can eat a little bit more than I do as long as it doesn't have protein or very little. Could the 5-HTP or tyrosine be making him nauseous?
We found when he didn't take 5-htp and tyrosine, that's when he got nauseous. He has been following the Marty Hinz protocol for years.
How much of each does he take?
Everyone is different. In his case, we have settled on porportions. He takes this mixture 5 times a day. He takes 2,600 mg mucuna to 2,000 L-tyrosine, to 400 5-htp. It has worked for a long time. Recently, we have to figure out why he has gotten a little worse. When I say a little worse, I mean lip tremor and right hand tremor. We WILL get on top of it.
Sorry for all the questions I get the lip Tremor as well. What brand strength mucuna is he taking?
No worries. He takes Barlowe's 650 mg. 40%. When he first started high dose B1, his tremor went away totally. Then it came back, so we reduced the dose. We are reducing it today, as well. He will be taking 300 mg B1 total.
Hi, is your husband still on just Barlowe's ?
I tell you my idea (shared also by my neuro)
It may be he is accumulating a toxic metabolites of the levodopa (mainly 3-O-methyldopa (3-OMD). Its half life is 15 hours much longer than that of levodopa)
The quick and dirty solution could be a drug holiday or a fasting of 48 hrs min to allow body to eliminate the acumulated toxin (the longest the best, but we are not the same). This will bring back effectiveness of levodopa also because they compete to pass the BBB.
A rough estimation is that in 48 hours 3-OMD concentration will go down to 12%
Also vit. B1 may help (bacause of its positive detox effect on liver . infact is used IM against alchol intossication)
I tryed the Hinz protocol too but had to give up for three (4) resons.
- Monthly cost of therapy (expecially Mucuna) (expected 300 $/month was 1.000+ )
- Difficult to ship directly to Italy. (Mucuna is not allowed tru italian custom) (had to do ... triangle every time - a nightmare)
- Lack of results after 6 weeks (I was said I could return to work in one week but this was not and had to go back to previous therapy)
- Huge constiaption (with two inguinal hernias
operated - had to be carefull)
But I'm interest to feedbacks of who succeded.
Can you share more details?
Many thanks in advances
Rgds
George has had good success with the mucuna. We are always watching and making minor adjustments if needed. He also takes several supplements to build up the immunity during this virus time. His constiptation was alleviated with 2 magnesium tablets. He hasn't had that problem for years. We are avoiding artificial chemicals as long as we can. He only takes supplementation that the body recognizes. "You can't fool Mother Nature".
I'm happy for George. Really. Keep on the good work.
Unfortuntely if someone's body is intoxicated and weakened by long years of chemical meds, the challange for Mother Nature risks to be very difficult 
That's very tough. When I first met George 8 years ago, I told him to stop drinking diet beverages, and to get off statins. Then, later, with the help of an MD, he was able to get off high blood pressure meds too. He didn't need them. Proper diet and exercise.
Do you live anywhere near where your father could get ozone treatments? I have heard, in Germany, they have ozone saunas in gyms and spas.
Steven
What do you do for work?
Project manager for a construction company
Ha! That's what my son does in California. He is also an estimator for that same remodeling company.
Just curious why do you ask?
I worked at Sandia National labs for 26 years finished as a safety analyst. I probably would have gone for 30 but changes to my retirement/pension made for an exit .
Now I have been farming and staying busy .
I have been around construction all my life it can be stressful!
Thank God you have a pension! If I had a pension I'd retire yesterday! I unfortunately bought a new home and was diagnosed two weeks later
Is it not an advantage that you are still working because that keeps you physically active and fit. And this is good for you mentally
On the other hand if you had been able to retire, you will be less active. You will have to specifically need to motivate yourself to get out and exercise. You may not notice it immediately, but because you can, ... without any consequences... you will begin to take a little nap here and there... and gradually going down the slippery slope of inactiveness. Which will be detrimental to you mentally
You're right! I agree 100%
Hello! I’m interested in the 5-thp and L-Tyrosine since my father gets nauseous, you mention the Marty Hines protocol did your husband have a practitioner help with the protocol?
Also, he has developed a problem with taste so that no food tastes good, anyone have an idea what could be cause or a help for it?
Hi Steven,
Very interesting
IMHO Having grown plants for all life in all soils and also in hydroponics I can tell you that plant products can vary a lot between them and when you find a good one do not change it for a matter of price, the difference could be abysmal. plants adapt to grow in all soils even in those lacking, but the harvest will be different in terms of protein content qualitatively speaking. In addition, the quality Mucuna P. will always be superior to pure Ldopa because it will also contain all the precursors that the plant uses to manufacture Ldopa.
I hear you Gio! I have only used the one brand because it's been extremely consistent. I only take out a week's worth keep it in a dark cool pantry in a glass sealed Bowl. I've been hearing others texting about not being able to get zandopa during this pandemic but thank God I have not had that issue with Nutri vitashop
Don't fava beans do well in the Italian climate? Have you ever grown them? I believe the Young beans contain some l-dopa
No I never grown it. However, it is an easy plant if you have a hot and dry climate, but why do it when there are excellent products on the market?
IMO. the best soil are in Ecuador but I don't know if they do the MP. My grandfather made wine at home that he said was very good, actually sucked, because we have a cold and humid climate here in northern Italy near Como lake. You must know that farmers have a guideline: to produce what is good spontaneously in that area. All the Made in Italy food is based on this. Sorrento lemons are very good as long as they are grown in Sorrento and they don't even struggle.😀
Very resourceful! He would have to roast the beans & grind them into a powder to get the potency, I think. It’s amazing how God provides when we start to pursue answers!
To avoid fluctuation of products I use pharmaceutical grade Mucuna with 15% levodopa (that's the max avaiable legally in Italy).
Ty csomigliana ,information very useful
Interesting! Can you get the zandopa product there?
I just recently read that hydroponic gardening doesn't give you the nutrients that plants grown in soil do. Any thoughts?
Steven, do you manage to fit in much exercise with having to work? I admire you as I had to give up teaching due to PD.
Not nearly as much as I should. I put on almost 20 lb during the pandemic because I got gout in my foot and couldn't get rid of it for 60 days. I like to hike in the woods usually I take a 6-mile hike that's about my limit. I tried it the other day without mucuna I made it but I looked like a walking Zombie by the time I was done. I do the unicycle thing just for fun until I end up on my ass which is better than my head! How about you?
Yeah. Fast paced stationery bike mostly. 4/5 times a week. You’re doing very well for 11 years btw. I’m only 5 years in but generally doing pretty well. How do you explain your slow progress? Oh, and how much CL were you on before going for the Mucuna? I’ve similarly been using this for about 2 years now.
Thanks! My neurologist told me early on statistically pd symptoms progress more quickly in older people. When I finally succumbed to medication I was prescribed 25100 of Carbidopa levodopa I took that for roughly six months before I discovered mucuna. I eat well meaning nothing processed and no meat
Do you have any comments re the variations of the efficacy of the MP? I take CL in the morning and then for the rest of the day it’s MP. But I find the 11 am dose lasts quite a bit longer than my say, 3 pm dose. I’ve never been able to work this out. I’d also be interested to hear how you went from three MP doses to two? That’s very impressive. Are you functioning in the evening without that third dose Steven?
It sounds like it's a food issue and perhaps you're eating too close to your dose or too heavy with protein. Lately I'm feeling great emotionally and I'm not needing a third dose. I've been experiencing what I call a withdrawal period as I enter the 4th hour. It might go on for a couple hours but then a sense of calm no tremors just a little bit of walking issues which I force myself to heel toe
I tend to give myself 1/2 hour after taking the MP but then you’re right, I eat what I want after this. I presumed the 1/2 hour would be enough to allow the potion to go to work. Do you think that protein can influence the efficacy even after this period of time?
Jeeves,
It could be food but I think it is more likely that there is some residual effect from the ‘man made’ CL dose you have first. It is the dose after that, that lasts longer. Could there still be available some carbidopa that makes the mucuna more effective?
Steven- if you see this- can you give me an idea on what you eat in a day? My husband is 67- he’s having some fairly bad ICD- impulse control disorder from the C/L 25 100- taking 6-8/day w/ropinerole.
I know that as we get older we need more protein (?) so - are you spacing your food away from your mucuna - and eating vegan protein foods - tofu, nuts/beans or…?
Steven, I am not having much luck with the Levocarb and I did buy the same L-dopa and green tea as you about 6 months ago but have not tried it yet. I have PIGD PD and my walking and balance is poor. I did buy a new electric bike to try and get some exercise. Riding is no problem
Do you mean Carbidopa levodopa 25/100? Is that what you're taking now? How long have you had PD?
Levocarb is the generic Sinemet up here and yes it is 25/100. September 1 it will be 2 years post diagnosis. Started taking 1 tab 3xdaily 6 months ago. Now the neuro wants me to take 4 tabs 4xdaily.
Try replacing one of your doses with 1/8 of a teaspoon of mucuna you can buy the teaspoon online or 333 mg on a scale. Try in the morning on an empty stomach with a cup of coffee mixed with the maybe a nut milk or oat milk my new favorite as long as it doesn't have a lot of protein. See how you do after it kicks in roughly 30 minutes or so have breakfast. Let me know what you think
Thank you so much for all of the info….🙏🏻
If it's 100% pure Levodopa as they claim I don't think there are any of the other compounds found in Mucuna, it's just the levodopa extracted from Mucuna. So is it actually any different from the levodopa contained in Sinemet or Madopar?
That would be the reason for the nausea now and then - that's one reason the pharma companies added Carbidopa - to avoid the nausea.
You are probably right but I'd rather take something natural then man-made
Hi. I too have been using the NutriVita 100% pure non-GMO L-Dopa. I find it to be powerful stuff. I'm looking to replace the Stalevo, which I'm happy with, but switching to Medicare earlier this year my copay for Stalevo has jumped from $84 for a 3 month prescription to $300 for the same. My current regimen is as follows:
6:00am
1/32 teaspoon NutriVita L-Dopa
1500mg vitamin B1 HCL capsules
2X Stalevo = (Carbidopa 50mg / Levodopa 200mg / Entacapone 200mg)
1 Tablespoon Zandopa powder
1 Tablespoon Mannitol
11:30am
1500mg vitamin B1 HCL capsules
1X Stalevo = (Carbidopa 50mg / Levodopa 200mg / Entacapone 200mg)
1 Tablespoon Zandopa powder
4:30pm
1X Stalevo = (Carbidopa 50mg / Levodopa 200mg / Entacapone 200mg)
1 Tablespoon Zandopa powder
7:30pm
1X Stalevo = (Carbidopa 50mg / Levodopa 200mg / Entacapone 200mg)
And, if I remember correctly, the price for the NutriVita powder was very reasonable.
Sounds like a lot of levodopa! Have you ever considered replacing stalevo and the zandopa with one does of mucuna from nutrivitashop?
Agree with you. My calculus says 1500 mg levoDOPA (the most in the morning). Am I wrong?
Not until now, Stevenmast. The Nutrivitashop I'm taking is a quality product. Recently, it was advertised on Facebook alongside the brain supplement, Aniracetam. Boy, did I have a bad reaction combining those two!! What I'm trying to say is be careful when mixing/matching your meds.
Votre témoignage est très encourageant.. Depuis quand avez vous commencé le mucuna. Avez vous essayé de prendre l'équivalent en mucuna que vous preniez en levodopa synthétique ? Depuis combien de temps avez vous commencé avec ces haricots ?... Si je comprends bien, vous n'avez pris que pendant 6 mois du carbidopa levodopa ? pourquoi avoir arrêté la levodopa synthétique après si peu de temps, vous aviez des effets secondaires ? Quels symptômes avez vous ? et vous avez remarqué une amélioration ? Juste pour info, le synthétique vous avait il apporté une amélioration au bout de ces 6 mois ? Je suis désolée pour toutes ces questions, mais mon mari a été diagnostiqué il y a environ 1 an et ne souhaite pas encore prendre les médicaments du neurologue, je cherche donc de l'aide avec des gens comme vous... Merci à vous...
How do I translate?
Translation:
00:50 Parkinson's Movement VALENTINE28 11h ago
Your testimony is very encouraging .. Since when you started mucuna. Did you want to take the equivalent in a way that you would like to synthesize? How long ago did you start with these beans? .. If I understand correctly, you only took carbidopa levodopa for 6 months? could you have stopped synthetic levodopa after such a short time, you were having side effects? What symptoms do you have? and you noticed an improvement? Just for information, the synthetic had the contribution of an improvement at the end of these 6 months? I'm sorry for all these questions, but my husband was diagnosed about 1 year ago and doesn't want to take the neurologist's meds yet, so I'm looking for help with people like you ... Thanks to you. .
Translation
I’not a doctor but my suggestion based on my personal esperienze and knowledge is to Do not start with neurology’s meds. Initial dosage is far too high and gives fast results but also fast addiction causing need to increase dosage.
If you/he feels he wants to try Start with natural mucuna pruriens only without carbidopa (pharmaceutical grade At 10/15% if you can) Increasing slowly every month or two. Stop increase when you see results. Try to lower a little by 10/20% Every month to get the perfect amount for him.
You may need to add CBD+THC Oil to manage sleep and mood.
If he respond to levoDOPA than this regimen could last without changes for the rest of his life without other drugs or the known side effects
Je vous remercie pour votre réponse.. Mon mari va en effet essayer de se passer des médicaments prescrits par le neurologue (quand je lis les témoignages des effets secondaires et de la période appelée "lune de miel", çà donne en effet envie d'essayer des produits naturels)..Vous parlez de mucuna sans carbidopa grade pharmaceutique à 10/15%, je suis désolée mais je ne comprends pas ce que vous voulez dire.. sinon je comprends qu'il faut augmenter jusqu'à ce qu'il y ait des résultats et essayer de baisser un peu chaque mois.. Quels sont les symptomes qui peuvent être améliorer rapidement (la lenteur et le tremblement peuvent ils être améliorés ?) .. Je suis très heureuse en lisant votre message , ça me donne tellement d'espoir et d'espérance...
Translation:
Thank you for your answer. My husband will indeed try to do without the drugs prescribed by the neurologist (when I read the testimonials of side effects and the period called "honeymoon", it makes you want to try natural products). of mucuna without pharmaceutical grade 10/15% carbidopa, I'm sorry but I don't understand what you mean. otherwise I understand that you have to increase until there are results and try to decrease a little each month. What are the symptoms that can be improved quickly (can slowness and shaking be improved?) .. I am very happy reading your post, it gives me so much hope and hope. “
Thanks for the translation Gio!
When I was first diagnosed formally roughly eight years ago my neurologist wanted to give me medicine from the beginning. I asked him I don't think I need the medicine will I be doing myself a disservice if I don't take it and he said no. In fact, over the years I kept asking him the same question , should I be taking medicine he said no. If you don't need it so I didn't. Finally I felt I needed something and I was prescribed Carbidopa levodopa 25/100 that's what I took for about 6 months before discovering mucuna . If I don't take my mucuna for extended period of time for example 48 hours everything slows down for me. When I take just one dose everything comes back to normal at least my new normal! I hope this helps! Good luck and just stay positive! Thanks again Gio!
Yes I didn't take any medicine out of the gate and when I did it was cl 25/100 I took for roughly 6 months or so. I started the mucuna because I wanted something natural. I have to double-check but I probably been taking mucuna for roughly four years. The mucuna controls all my symptoms which are shuffling, poor gait, body tremors, lip shaking, low voice, getting stuck, no sense of smell, loss of core very hard to turn over in bed. Etc... I take HDT orally twice a day 1500 mg each dose total of 3000 mg I feel a big Improvement from an emotional standpoint. You have to remain positive and never give up! You don't have to look far to find other people that have health issues worse than you!
J'espère qu'un jour (prochain) un traitement pourra aider les malades....
HDT? High dose testosterone?? Ty for your help Steven!
Thank you for sharing
So you're taking 1/8th tsp. Mucuna > Nutrivita 3x a day? I've been using Nutrivita for almost a year and have good success too. Some nausea like you but not often. I seem to battle the meal / dose timing and struggle to have a routine but will try what you're doing. Thanks for the post!
Are you taking it with the green tea?
I should have edited an old Post I'm really just taking two doses a day which usually gets me through the work day. I shake a little after my last dose but then I seem to calm down. My walking is not too good without mucuna but I deal with it at home. My dose is 3/8 not 1/8 it's actually 1100 mg on a scale. I wish it were 1/8. How long have you had PD?? The eating thing is hard when you're hungry but you have to take the mucuna first wait another half hour and then enjoy your meal. A lot of people can't do that. I must be special LOL
I was diagnosed with dystonia, not PD as yet, but my GP thinks it's PD and I agree. L-dopa works for 4 hours same as you. I'm taking 1/8th tsp. 3 x a day but working on the eating so I don't skip a dose. If I take more I can't cope with the nausea so guessing I just don't need it. I will try taking it before eating but usually take it about an hour after because of very slow digestion issues. Lots of fun. I need a watch to remind me when to take it I think. Thanks for your reply Steven. It was very helpful.
I've had dystonia for about 4 years but it's more than dystonia....so I guess I'll have to wait and see the movement disorder specialist ...who knows when that will be because everything is on the slow train right now. Was referred to a dystonia clinic which is seeing more and more people with that. It's called secondary dystonia and occurs often with PD.
98% L-DOPA = 30% bioavailable
3/8s of a teaspoon = approximately 1,850 milligrams.
3 * 1,850 = approximately 5,500 milligrams
5,500 milligrams = 5.5 grams per day of 98% L-Dopa.
5.5 grams * .30 = 1,650 milligrams OR 1.65 grams is bioavailable ideally
1 cup of matcha = 60-80 milligrams of caffeine (about 1/2 of coffee)
but double the half life (4-6 hours vs. 1-3 hours)
(Caffeine increases dopamine levels to some extent in different parts of the brain by up-regulating the D2/D3 receptors and blocking some of the re-entry of dopamine back into the CNS and PNS.)
Unfortunately, long term continued use of L-DOPA ultimately (usually) triggers widespread changes in DNA methylation leading to dsykinesia.
No easy answers, nor is an enriched L-methionine diet an answer for the DNA methylation issue
Sharon
As I mentioned I reposted an Old Post. I'm only taking 2 doses a day now which gets me through my work day. It weighs 1100 mg I often on weekends just take one dose or none for a 24-hour period. Are you suggesting other options?
Other options? You are on the right path. Cut your 98% L-DOPA to as low a dose (per day) as you possibly can without discomfort. It may mean different (unequal) dose at different times, or minimal doses more frequently. It all depends on how it effects you at a given point in your condition.
See how adding a MAO-I like selegiline or COMT (stay from the drug COMTs) inhibitor might work to even reduce you newer reduced dose.
I was suggesting by simple math that 5.5 grams of 98% L-DOPA is a lot of L-DOPA over an extended period of time which will normally prove to be a serious negative.
I am glad you cut it back.
Sharon
My question is this: does the Ldopa that doesn't reach the brain contribute to the long term side effects?
No, is only causes nausa and vomit (Mother nature gives messagges of what is good and what is not good for you). the body can store some LD and release it in the bloodstram slowly when dose ends and blood concentration decrease. this is valid at the beginning of meds usage when neurons are still sensible and not anestetized by overdosage of LD in meds
Side effects are due to LD addiction (body internal production decreases because not nedded because artificial LD is give daily and the body gets rapidly used to it and stop producing its amount); carbidopa toxicity (it destroys vit B6 causing cronic deficiency - B6 is involved in 300+ enzimatic processes including TYR to LD and LD to DPM and TRP to 5HTP and 5HTP to SRT); 3-O-MD toxicity for neurons and accumulates in the body and competes with LD causing decreased efficacy and need to increase dosage.
CSO :
How do you know for sure that the non-bioavailable L-DOPA which doesn't cross the BBB isn't neurotoxic in the long run? Have you conducted some mice studies or know of some that suggest it isn't neurotoxic in the long run?
Somewhere around 70-80% of a single dose is excreted through the urine within 24 hours, which means some of it is still circulating well beyond that time particularly if you take it 3-4 times per day.
What happens then ? In 5 or so years, DNA methylation takes over which makes the question essentially "moot" because L-DOPA doesn't work anymore.
But what triggers the destructive methylation cycle? Is it the amount that crosses the BBB, or the amount that doesn't, or both?
Sharon
Assuming a lot here, my guess is that it doesn't because it is simply excreted as a non-bioavailable amino acid and protein (an analogue of L-tyrosine).
Or does it end up in the PNS where it isn't wanted? What if someone doesn't have enough B6 (required for conversion)?
The portion of the orally administered levodopa that is decarboxylated to dopamine in peripheral tissues will not enter the brain. Given its short half life, it won't remain in the human system very long. However, significant amounts over many years may result in peripheral toxicity.
Good question.
Hi Sharon.
Do you know any natural COMT inihbitor?
Natural MAO inhibitors I know are curcumina (to be taken with butter to maximize absorption) and resveratrolo (wine 
).
I read that coffe should be avoided with levoDOPA in fact it gives me muscolar tension.
Thanks a lot for any reply.
Green tea polyphenols not only inhibits L-DOPA methylation, but also protects against oxidative hippocampal neurodegeneration.
Also specifically green tea catechins [(+)-catechin.
Specifically, teas high in EGCG and EGC.
Fisetin (which is also MAO-A) and Rutin (via green tea, buckwheat)
Bio-active quercetin (although somewhat debatable due to bio-availability)
To a minor extent, some forms of grapefruit juice (they vary in their ability to act), berries (see Fisetin), cocao as they effect bio-availability.
Pharma wise, you have primarily Entacapone (in Stalevo which is rarely used in US due to prostrate cancer issues, but is a combination drug)
Sharon
I read on an innovative research that dyskinesia (and it seems also other problems related to the continued use of the drug) is caused by the scarcity of vitamin B6 caused by carbidopa which destroys it in the bloodstream causing a chronic deficiency
Studies with B-6 (both forms) apparently relieved symptoms of "tardive" dyskinesia (specifically) implying a deficiency might possibly be the cause of TD. (see Lerner's 2007 CT on TD which was well done although not done on pwp).
Other studies suggest L-DOPA in large amounts over an extended period of time becomes neurotoxic. Other studies suggest it is the imbalance of 5-HTP and L-DOPA.
Perhaps all are relevant to PD forms of dystonia/dyskinesia and TD.
Sharon
Are you suggesting taking 5-HTP and tyrosine and perhaps a B6 supplement?
B-6 definitely...every day. Somewhere in this thread is a discussion which replicates what I have said about B-6. I think cio.....wrote it.
If you take L-dopa you want to balance it off with 5-HTP. Again, every day.
The more you use heavy doses of l-dopa, the more 5-HTP you will need.
L- phenylalanine, L-tryptophan and L-theanine (and possibly magnesium) are more relevant to L-tyrosine, which converts to L-DOPA, which converts into dopamine at some point.
Understand the pathway...all the neurotransmitters and their "correct" synthesis are important in PD. Not just dopamine.
Sharon
Thank you sounds like I'm making some additions
For a few months now I have intuitivel been taking longer breaks between doses of my mucuna and feeling pretty good just very slow. After reading your comments about dyskinesia I have tuned into the rest of what you're saying but I will admit you are a hell of a lot smarter than I am! It's a little overwhelming for me because I don't have any support to Aid me in my quest to treat myself naturally. This is why I am so very grateful for all of the seemingly good information I have gotten over the years from many of you on this forum and that includes you! That said, based on what I'm reading from you I need to consider some additional supplementation. Knowing that I take at least 1,100 milligrams of mucuna usually 2200 per day less on weekends are you able to recommend dosing amounts 5-HTP, B6 and anything else that might benefit me in the long run? Remember keep it simple! Thank you in advance! Steven
I believe I have addressed your question in a previous post. If you have a specific question concerning that post, ask.
I have a Ph.d. in biochemistry; I am not an MD or RD nutrionist. Besides, dosing isn't a "one size fits all" given everyone is different to one degree or another.
I did forget to mention in that previous post to use P-5-P (B-6) rather than the much cheaper and therefore much more commonly used PHydro when you are taking so MUCH MP or pure L-DOPA. PH isn't going anywhere in your system until it converts to P-5-P.
If you in the boondocks and insist going natural until the cliff, try some of the following some of which I have discussed:
1 creatine
2 omega 3 fatty acids
3 CoQ10
4 B-6---P5P
5 Carnitine
6 Green tea-matcha-EGCG
7 Resveratrol
sharon
Hi Sharon,
According to your previous statement - "If you take L-dopa you want to balance it off with 5-HTP. Again, every day.
The more you use heavy doses of l-dopa, the more 5-HTP you will need." - so should 5-HTP be included in your 7 items list?
Thank you so much for your contributions!
I personally think it is a good idea to add 5-HTP (as well as Mannitol and Melatonin). But know the correct balance for your own system when you add it to your L-DOPA or sinemet/rytary meds.
I am not suggesting 5-HTP alone because it can deplete your brain's dopamine, which is not what you want. You want to "balance" your dopamine and serotonin precursors so they don't get out of whack.
5-HTP and L-Dopa should be (are) catalyzed by the same enzyme (AAAD) in a balanced manner which will vary from person to person.
The ideal balance is not always 1:1 per se. It can vary a great deal which means you start out small on 5-HTP (25 mgs.) and monitor its effect with your std. dose of L-DOPA. But they are to be taken simultaneously.
If you are on sinemet, the problem gets complicated because cabidopa inhibits in the PNS both substances. Generally it results in serotonin depletion.
I don't know whether this info helps you in making a decision.
Sharon
Thank you Sharon, this is good to know.
Hi Steve
You have been taking up to 2200 mgs mucuna a day. Do you get dyskenesia?
I should have made some edits to my old post but I have been cutting back my last dose and not taking it. Two doses would normally get me through my work day. I've been taking less and notice in the morning I can actually take 1/8 and get almost 3 hours. The bad news is you have to take it more often which makes timing my breakfast and possibly lunch more difficult. For me any substantial protein the mucuna does not work that well
I have been told that grapefruit juice does the same job as green tea, do you have any thoughts. I am on Madopar and I have to be just vigilant about when I eat in relation to when I take my pills.
Wriga has written quite extensively about grapefruit juice. Supposedly it is quite effective but you must be careful because grapefruit juice can't be taken with some medication! I take 1mg of Xanax at night and that's one that you can't mix with grapefruit juice so I don't have it.
Grapefruit juice seems to help me with mucuna absorption as on time seems longer.
How much grapefruit juice are you taking and how do you time it with your mucuna? How much more up time would you say you're getting?
Sorry for the delay, but I wanted to pay more attention to how GFJ affects/helps me before I responded. When I am doing well, either I last almost 3 hrs , and/or make a smoother transition into the next phase. When I'm having a bad day GFJ doesn't seem to noticeably help. I drink about 6 oz.
Hi Steven,
Your protocol seems very interesting!
For those who have converting difficulties (sorry, I am French !) would it be possible to convert your teaspoon dose to somethhing more universal like weight. How many grams Mucuna are you consuming per day or per week ?
I wrote that post about a year ago and reposted it I probably should have made a change in that I'm only taking 2 doses a day which gets me through my work day. I also often don't take it for a 24- hours During the weekends just to detox a little bit when I can. That said, my dose weight is 1100 mg or 1.1 gram
Tu es Français ? vous écrivez bien en anglais, d'où venez-vous exactement? et depuis combien de temps avez-vous le PD? vous pouvez répondre en français.
I don't know how long you had Parkinson's but I would start out only using 1/8 of a teaspoon that would be roughly 300 mg and see how you do
I thank you Steven.
I am 64 y.o. and have had Parkinson for six years - although diagnosed 2 years ago only, due to a false previous diagnosis of essential tremor. I have had increased doses of modopar (up to 3 times 250 mg Levodopa a day) and decided to stop for fear of strong diskynesias in the coming years. Now, I am making a personal natural trial with 3 times 200 mg Mucuna a day (loaded at 50% Levodopa) => equivalent to 300 mg pure levodopa a day.
Here in France I could not find a supplier for Mucuna Powder, so I am using Mucuna pills from Solbia lab.
My hand shaking is currently a little worse than with my original artificial L-Dopa treatment, but I suspect it is better for the body on the long run to decrease the L-Dopa dosis because it is well known that excess L-Dopa will eventually create strong diskynesias.
Je suis également Française et c'est mon mari qui a été diagnostiqué il y a environ 1 an.. Je viens également d'acheter le mucuna SOLBIA car mon mari va aussi essayer les produits naturels. Sachant que ces gellules sont en effet dosées à 50% de L Dopa, celà correspond à combien de gellules ?
Sounds like you're on the right track and you're right less is more in the long run. I would think you'd have to increase the mucuna dose in order to get rid of the handshake. Exercise a lot and hopefully you're sleeping well. I find sleep is everything!
I thank you for your feedback, Steven, it is very much appreciated !
I don't know if I understood correctly but you said you were taking 250 mg of Ldopa per day in three times in the form of MODOPAR but it doesn't seem like a high dose, why you are afraid it will hurt you. Do you also need the recipe for modopar in France?
Gio, i farmaci fanno male!
Io appena ho assunto 1/2 cpr di madopar 100/25 , ho iniziato dopo mezz’ora ad avere discinesie , per questo sto cerando di capire di più sulla mucuna. Infatti seguo con attenzione questo dibattito e ringrazio tutti per il vostro apporto: siete compagni di viaggio meravigliosi e preziosi! Gio, goditi questa vacanza!
In fact, my precribe medication was 3 times 250 mg L-Dopa a day = 750 mg a day under the form of Modopar, which seems quite huge to me.
I'm in my 11-year how about you?
6 year with hand shaking. At the beginning Doctor thought about essential tremor, but a test made 2 years ago (datscan) proved to be Parkinson. So I started chemical L-Dopa (Modopar) 2 years ago, increasing gradually to 750 mg L-Dopa per day.
And then I stopped one month ago to experiment Mucuna Pruriens, first with equivalent L-Dopa content, then about half.
Main problem is I cannot access to Mucuna Pruriens powder, I have to use Mucuna Pruriens capsule from Solbia Lab.
Excuse me Jean ,But do you buy the modopar at the pharmacy or do you get it from the web?
I used to buy Modopar from pharmacy. But I do not use it any more. I replaced Modopar with Mucuna Pruriens, bought directly from Solbia lab.
Hi Steve - do you buy the NutriVita Japanese Matcha green tea powder or the Trumatcha Japanese Matcha or is it the same thing?
Thanks,
Shaunna
I buy the matcha green tea from nutrivitashop it's organic they only sell one kind
for those in this post, I've changed my name from csomigliana to Somic67, but it is still me
Do you feel different? LOL
Your post is very interesting. Please tell us how much B1 you take.
I take two doses 1500 mg each orally. First one with my dose in the morning second one after lunch not too late
Please read my new post on Mucuna stains😊
I haven't to taking 5-HTP yet but I think I'm going to start. How much mucuna did your husband take. Try it in coffee with a little nut milk I love oat milk as long as it's the kind without too much protein like no more than one gram for cup. See if that makes a difference. If he's eating anything with protein right before he takes it it's not going to work very well
He used one scoop of the green tea and one scoop of the l-dopa. It is the scoop that comes in the packages from Nutrivitashop. He said he had a bowl of cereal with milk one hour before he drank the l-dopa/tea. The second time he drank it on an empty stomach and then ate an hour later. Both times he was nauseated. He definitely feels stronger in his legs and arms after just those two doses. He is pretty hopeful now. Thanks Steve!!
Any idea if the scoop that it comes with is 1/8 a teaspoon?
Yes the scoop measured out to be 1/8 of a teaspoon. The first day each time he drank the tea and the l-dopa it made him sick but after that day it hasn’t made him sick.
Thanks gonna try complimenting it with my sinemet. Right now my 1.5 25/100mg lasts only about 2.5 hrs before it wears off. Im taking it 4x a day, don't really want to increase it. Hopefully this will help bridge or replace a dose or 2.
Dx 2018 at 43yo 150lbs, intense tennis almost daily has helped tremendously with tremors, anxiety, rigidity, and sleep. Hope all goes well for your husband also.
As I'm sure you are early already know just to start off with 1/8 of a teaspoon in coffee or green tea just no protein. I've been experimenting for quite a while and it works best for me on a fully digested stomach meaning at least 2 3 hours or empty stomach.. good luck!
I am so sorry I told you wrong, the scoop measured out to be one teaspoon.
No worries...was going to check anyway.
I think the scoop is a lot more than a. 1/8 of teaspoon but not sure. I used a scale from amazon. I recommend using a scale so you know how much you are using I use c/l now 25/100 with good results with stiffness and rigidity but does not help tremor. I no longer use mucuna
I don't use the blue scoop it's large I believe it's a teaspoon at least. I just happen to have a very small measuring spoon. I haven't weighed in a while but I believe it weighs 330 mg roughly
Sorry I'm coming in a little late I was away. I believe the scoop is one teaspoon . Don't use that it's way too much!
Good to know...thanks I'll measure it on a scale initially.
Confirm if I understand correctly. You take 3 doses of Mucuna per day: 9am - 1pm - 5pm.
Each dose consists of N. 3 x 1/8 teaspoons = 3/8
Total Daily Mucuna = 9 x 1/8 teaspoons = 9/8
Thank you for your reply.
My apologies that was an Old Post which I have since made some changes. I'm now only taking two doses during my work day I would not be able to work otherwise. If I'm working I take 3/8 of a teaspoon which actually weighs 1.1 gram twice a day my hours are 10 a.m. and 2 p.m. on the weekends when I'm not working I reduce to 2/8 of a teaspoon Which weighs 660 mg
You are telling me that you have decreased from 3 to 2 daily doses, otherwise you could not work. I ask you why you couldn't work? What kind of problems did you have?
Decreasing the dosage I think is a good thing.
I ask you to be clear why I am also thinking of leaving Sinemet.
Thank you
Perhaps I didn't articulate well. I reduced the amount of daily doses from 3 to 2 so that I'm consuming less l-dopa overall. The two doses gets me roughly six to eight hours of relief so that I can work. I have very bad gait issues meaning I don't pick my feet up, tremors, my ability to write, etc. The mucuna that I take fixes all of it. From 6 p.m. to sleep time I seem to be okay without taking anything
Hi Steven - hope you are doing well. How much of the matcha green tea do you use per drink? Asking for my husband. Thank you!
I personally don't like green tea So for me I take as little as possible About 4 oz cold
Costco sells an excellently packaged and priced box of individual single serve/dip immersive tea bags. Just about right with my Rytary sometimes. It's the right amount for me. I hate the taste and can only drink it like a straight up shot😅😅
Thanks for the info that you provided which gave me an healthy option, Stevenmast. However, it's hard to drink every day, let alone multiple times a day!
I have since discovered that Vitamin C in any form also works and is very effective. It depends on fine tuning the amount to use. Rytary includes a certain amount as a key ingredient. That included amount doesn't work for most people as i have gleaned from various anecdotal observations on this forum. So we need some more.
Levodopa is Levodopa. Stop. Period. Mucuna or Rytary, you choose! The two are identical in molecular biology structure.
I think you're on to something! A shot of good Whiskey and Mucuna Might be just what the doctor ordered! Lol P.S. I will definitely check out that Cosco Product. Thanks
Stevenmast, if you are still looking and have some money to spare, try taking the Mucuna with Emergen-C. Give that a try or drink orange juice (aka OJ). This is good for faster absorption. The green tea prolongs the duration of the dosage as you showed.
Apparently, grapefruit juice also works well. BTW, I am not going to start an argument with you or anyone on this forum about the fact that the powder you are taking is no longer the much awowed, Ayurvedic healthy, raw powder made just by grinding the seeds. The husk and other stuff that comes along with the powder is speculated to be helpful in the water the Levodopa content in the powder, which is about 5 ~7 %
Any processing beyond that stage is IMHO, just pure Levodopa and controversial as far as a few people are concerned. Including me. The molecular biology/structure of the Mucuna derived Levodopa is the exact same one as Sinemet.
I am not sure that you have tried Banyan Botanicals Mucuna Pruriens - exactly the kind of raw powder you can get greater. benefits from. . It's like Magic and works within minutes.
Why not Just take Sinemet- it’s essentially the same, it’s easier, standardized, and often covered by insurance (cheaper)? I used to take MP but the difference was negligible for me, anyways.
How do you dose the Banyan? Do you know what the equivalent of 1/8 tsp of nutravitashop ldopa would be? Thanks !
I don't use Banyan so I'm not familiar with what the percentage of l-dopa is nutrivitashop claims 98.6 percent l-dopa. Regardless of what it is start off slow small and see how it works for you you can always increase slowly!
@turnipbarrow, try 15gm per dose per day and then 30gm per dose per day which is what was used in the clinical trial / study.
RKM
Thank you! Do you have link to study?
@turnipbarrow, the link is below :
jnnp.bmj.com/content/jnnp/7...
Please use a table weighing scale to get the correct amount. The study says that the subjects were dosed once per day starting with 15gm. Maximum was 30gm. I followed that protocol and got great results in the early days of my diagnosis. I am only used one dose of 30gm per day. Unfortunately due to my active travel for work lifestyle until before the pandemic, it was not practical for me to continue with this protocol and now I am on Rytary to which I respond well with the addition of Nourianz. So I don't have any experience with multiple doses per day.
Perhaps any of the other members of the forum might be able to guide you? @park_bear, any comments ?
RKM
Sorry, another question. Do you know in tsp how much 15gm is? When you say per dose per day, I’m not sure what you mean. Each dose 15gm? How many doses per day or is this based on as needed? Thank you so much!
Husband trying to do this without meds and at a point where we want to add in mucuna. Yesterday tried nutravitashop and it was great but we are concerned it’s really no different then getting the ldopa from sinemet.
Those are not my words be careful when you're dosing. 1000mg is equal to one gram so if you're talking 15 grams that's 15000 mg. If you're working with powders it would make sense to buy a scale. i use 3/8 of a teaspoon as one dose.
Roughly 330 mg
Thanks for trying to help me figure this out. According to these calculations that would be 15tbs per dose! Can’t be correct! I know that using the seed powder not extract means you have to use a lot but something is not right . I’m totally confused .
Are you saying to take 4 tsp. Per dose and work up to 8 tsp? Do you make your own capsules? Thanks so much
@turnipbarrow, I strongly suggest that you buy a kitchen table scale to measure out the dosage. Please don't rely upon a approximation. That being said, I echo @stevenmast by putting in my disclaimer : I am only relaying my personal experience with the help of the Mucuna Pruriens trial information and resources on the internet. I am not a doctor and I don't play one in this forum. Please use the guidance on a Ayurvedic doctor if you choose to replicate the said trial at home and not rely on my experience which may or may not apply in the case of your husband 👍😊
That being said. I wish you and your husband all the best. 👌✨💁♂️
RKM
Thanks Steven. So, you take 3/8 teaspoon in total for the day? or 3/8 teaspoon for each 4oz jar's worth? Do you know if decaf green tea work's just as well?
Hi Steven,Can you elaborate more on how you wean off C/L in one week (what dosage you were on C/L, weaning dosages per day)? Have you experiencing dyskinesia?
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