I have experienced pain in both shoulders for some 7 years and am in Cornwall UK. Initially the right shoulder was the biggest problem which was resolved by a steroid injection into my right shoulder on 1 April 2022. I had minimal physio prior to and some for a time after the injection. Sorted! So, today, I still have good range of movement and only minor shoulder discomfort .... the great thing is I can get dressed on my own without assistance from my wife getting my arm into a shirt sleeve or jacket sleeve ... all bending motions are great.
Since April 2024 however, I have started experiencing increasing numbness down the right arm and pain between the thumb and first two fingers - suspect Carpel Tunnel problems. However, I feel the root cause is injury and/or aging issues ( some kinda arthritis ) in the left shoulder, spreading across/ being carried across to the right shoulder and a consequent nerve pinching problem/ carpel tunnel problem.
I might add that some 25 years ago I slipped off a bungalow roof and speared right shoulder first into a timber deck. Although amazingly nothing broke it did push my right clavicle out of alignment. Never treated.
In any event, I’m getting nowhere with my GP, all she does is keep referring me to Physio for treatment. Now here is the rub ….. I keep telling these Physios that I have difficulty in doing their prescribed exercises ( aimed at increasing the strength of the shoulder ) because of pain the in shoulder joint. In terms of treatment they all seem obsessed with improving strength in the shoulder and improving range of movement not addressing the source and cause of the pain.
Unfortunately my sleeping position is not conducive to success as I am a side sleeper ( I cannot sleep on my back ). So, pain wise I start off sleeping on my right side ( all OK ) but during the night move to my left side and ultimately wake up at some point in pain. Then there is the problem of settling the pain and a disturbed nights sleep. Then there is the living with the intensity of pain, if it is dry and sunny with low humidity There is little pain, and if the weather is damp, moist and humid or there is about to be a weather change there is high grade pain.
I feel nobody is listening to me and certainly my GP ( a young woman aged probably in her mid 30’s ) seems obsessed with Physio. Frankly my latest NHS Hospital Physio is much shorter than me and is so young it looks as if she has just stepped out of High School or a Physio Training Academy ! My initial thoughts are that I will ask for a second opinion with the most senior GP Partner in the Surgery Practice and if that doesn’t achieve a more positive result, make a formal complaint about my treatment to the Care Quality Commission with the request they investigate.
Before I go there I wonder if anyone out there has any other suggestions I might look at.
Many thanks,
John
Written by
BenHall1
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Hi John. You sound in much pain so can understand your worries. The first thing l would ask for is an x-ray of my shoulder to find out exactly what the problem is. I have heard this so many times that physio can make things worse for some, l think you need a second opinion with the senior GP to voice your concerns re. the lack of care you are receiving. . Best of luck.
Thanks for your comments - and also those from Etheral. I'm mulling over these comments but I have to say one thing has triggered in my mind my surgery is possibly adopting an Ageism/ or an Ageist approach to my well being ! Look I've just turned 80. I stopped working ( driving buses ) on 5 July 2024. All appointments are telephone style these days. Unless there is a need for a face to face appointment - like an injection or stethascope check of my chest of course.
I am aware I don't look 80, sound 80 or think 80 and in the case of telephone appointments I understand this may work against me. In effect I am suggesting my surgery and GP thinks that - oh! it doesn't matter he is old ................ ! No need to take him seriously.
My right shoulder was Xrayed on 12/12/18 and injected on 1/4/ 22. The injection was based on a 3 & half year old Xray.
My left shoulder was Xrayed on 25/9/20 with only occasional physio therapy up until now and my next Physio is on 11/11/24. I have had two injections one at the MSK Interface Clinic on 17/4/2024 and the other on 26/7/24 at my surgery. But nothing has worked and I'm not naturally a patient person. Nor is anyon e at Surgery anxious to investigate the shoulder further ............ I can imagine the reaction from my surgery at my suggesting a CT or MRI 😱.
I think I will go with the next Physio but after that I think I'll pay for a private consultation with an independant Physio to determine a way forward. My next discussion on this matter has now been arranged for early Jan 2025. I don't think thats gonna happen by the time I made my complaint.
A few years ago, in my sixties , I was told something like “with our elderly patients”….
which took me aback as I didn't think of myself as old at all.
Now I do feel my age and I do think there is ageism at work.
I have had at least 2 TIAs which they missed ( it was during Covid pandemic) and an issue with my neck, which they were helpful about and referred me for physio appts.
I have had to change my GP Practice as I live too far away now from my old one. The last time I went to my old Practice, I arrived one minute past the cut- off point where they cancel your appointment . I had phoned them to say an unforeseen delay had occurred and they said they would tell the doctor, but when I arrived they said they would have to “re-triage” me!
I do feel this kind of treatment may be related to my age, but who knows, maybe they treat all the patients like this..
It used to be a good Practice pre Pandemic, I found , but I was housebound a lot so couldn't go there often and managed my own conditions in those days.
They do seem very keen on physio and painkillers as the solution to all conditions.
TBH, I don't think these modern Surgeries care anymore - not in the least if a patient is old. But hey whats old these days, all in the mind. Anyway, I have decided to wait and see what my next Physio exerience is on 11/11/2024 - then depending on how my issues are resolved I will send a formal letter ( not a complaint as such ) outlining my ineffective experiences and requesting a second opinion from the Senior Partner GP at my Surgery ( which is a private company and advertises that fact and which of course gives me many more avenues of complaint if needed ). That will be the final chance they have to make a referral for either a CT Scan or MRI of the shoulder joint. It will also give me the final bit of ammo with which to take to the Care Quality Commission. If I were a 29 year old Rugby player with a player injury to my shoulder I'd get a total different level of treatment. Which automatically brings up the legal concept of discrimination !
I gave up with NHS physio’s. They often used to send me copies of the same, very basic, exercise sheets each time I was referred to them. What DID help me was,
1) a course at an Aquatherapy pool, if you have one near you, followed regularly by an Aquarobics class, (at most swimming pools);
2), the exercise programme designed by Pete Egoscue, (his books can be found on Amazon, and there are videos on YouTube;
3) finding a decent sports massage therapist,
and
4) 10% Ibuprofen gel.
I’ve also noticed that I get the most pain on sites of previous, old injuries, but I’m sure the secret is to keep moving as much as you’re able to, particularly the joints closest to the old injuries!
Don't let age define you and your treatment. I had a friend who had shoulder surgery at 82. She had had her other shoulder done in her 70s and was told too old after that for another replacement. but then when she was at physio yet again someone said of course she could have it done, she was very active and it would benefit her.
Best thing she had ever done.
Presumably the physios you are seeing are in secondary care, in a community or acute hospital? If so you might like to try PALS first. Rather than just go straight to formal complaint, explain the situation and ask if there is anything else that they can suggest.
Thanks for your comments. No I certainly won't let my age define my treatment. Our one and only NHS hospital here in Cornwall has already felt my venom a few years ago, not just about their attitude to treatment but age as well. I reported the matter direct to my Westminster MP and he took the matter up with the Secretary of State for Health ( back in the day). That got things well and truly sorted and letters of profuse apologies.
I see the same footpath emerging yet again with my surgery. I still believe behind it all is my age (80) and the surgery is playing the ageist card. The best person in my surgery is the Head INR Nurse.
Yes the surgery refer me to the local community hospital Physios .......... useless ! As much use as a damn chocolate fireguard !
Hi John,I have had very similar problems and am in my mid 50s.
I have had shoulder problems for eight years and have had two frozen shoulders before then and no injections.
I had an MRI scan because I had a numb arm and fingers for a while with pain, and couldn't sleep on one side at all, the MRI scan showed I had slipping discs in my neck, C5 and 6, and that was typically related to the arm and hand numbness.
If you still have a numb arm and fingers you should have been seen by neurology and possibly offered an MRI scan.
My pain has gotten slightly better over the years, and I directly relate this to taking gabapentin, for nerve pain, and also sleeping in a recliner chair for two years now. Because I am not lying on my sides, the pain is taken off of there, and it's like I'm sleeping on a cloud. Also the chair is heated and I have a heated pad which helps immensely and heated seats in the car.
Physio did not help, have had many referrals to there with musculoskeletal pain but exercises only ever make it worse, also had sessions of exercise in hydrotherapy pool.
The only things that have helped me are full strength maximum dose co-codamol and gapabentin, and heat.
Well, here we are .......... I hope this gets through OK.
I think my shoulder troubles started way back in about 2000, although lower back and right sacrilliac joint pain started much earlier than that. The lower back and sacrilliac joint were dealt with by a brilliant Osteopath and in more recent years have ceased to be much of a problem.
In 2000 I slipped off a bungalow roof, in mid flight I managed to twist somehow and landed, or rather speared right shoulder first into a timber deck. Well that really did it! I lived in Sydney at the time and was treated in hospital, Xrays etc but nothing more. At the time – once I got over the initial injury, there were no problems even though I had been told that my right collar bone had shifted on my right side up into my right neck and that both shoulders/collar bones were no longer in a natural alignment … great! This damage could not be corrected, even by surgery. So it’s the old cause and effect story. The full effect never showed itself for about another 13/14 years … as I aged.
Long story short – both shoulders had degrees of arthritis affecting the AC joint, right shoulder first gave problems which was speedily and accurately dealt with by my GP with a steroid inject on 1 April 2022. The left shoulder at that time was behaving itself and although uncomfortable wasn’t painful. In the years that followed the left shoulder got worse until I am where I am. My treatment has been very similar to yours. My useless GP referred me to the local MSK Interface clinic and all that emerged from that encounter was a referral to my local hospital Physio who prescribed exercises. They did nothing at all except aggravate pain. More Physio and more pain and a deaf, useless, incompetent GP. She has in the past tried me on both Gababentin and Amitriptilyne …. both of which my gut rejected and I had massively bad side effects with diarhorrea. So all I’m left with now is massive doses of CoCodomol 30/500 and heat patches. I’m not sure if I have any Aquatherapy facilities where I am but I will check around.
I do have a recliner chair and I can’t sleep in that position, only on my sides.
So, I have now decided to keep my next Physio appointment on 11 Nov … I will explain my problems again (which I’ve already done previously) and if she prescribes exercises which she or another Physio have already tried on me – unsuccessfully … I’ll write a letter of complaint to the Lead Surgery Partner (at my Surgery Practice) and I’ll copy the letter to the company which owns the practice. I’ll give them the chance to get me sorted. If all that fails I’ll make a further complaint to the Care Quality commission with a copy to my Westminster MP. Frankly, I believe the problems in my left shoulder are part of all my problems in my right shoulder, the numbness down my right arm and the pain in and around the thumb and first two or three fingers. Plus all these bones being out of alignment.
The information you and other peeps have provided has been very useful as these comments have illustrated how perhaps I should have been treated ….. and haven’t!
Anyway, thank you for your interest and your comments, and everyone else too. I'll provide an update in due course.
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