depression

[dosh]

hi,im new on this forum,i have chronic pain syndrome in most of my joints,and had for a few years now,what i would like to ask is does anyone else suffer from depression because of there pain?

[Carolinee71]

Hi, I am new to this part of the site but have been on the fibromyalgia part for a while. I am still waiting to one find out what is wrong with me and two to get some pain relief that takes away the pain.

As for your question, both my pain and depression started around the same time which is a little over a year ago. I have had depression on and off fot the past 25 years. But had been " well " for a couple of years.

I have asked my GP wether or not my depression is causing my pain and his reaction was if he was in unbearable pain ( am on MST 30 mg twice aday along with Oramorph 4 times aday ) he would be very depressed. He feels that for me it is a natural by product to being in so much pain. He hopes that once they find out all that is wrong with me my mental health will improve. But in the mean time I take Quetiapine 150mg and escitalopram 20mg and lorazepam twice aday. I also see my local mental health team and see the psychiatrist once a month

. I feel that if my pain were to be gone tomorrow my mental health would improve very quickly as I would be able to start living my life instead of being almost housebound due to the pain. I could go back to a job I love and would have money just to spend instead of counting the pennies all the time. So in short I do suffer from depression because of pain.

Have you seen your GP about the depression? As I would the tablets I take helps me be me.

Sorry it's so long . Do you take tablets for the pain or the depression?

Hope you are having a better night than me as I am still up and just taken a whole lot of drugs so hopefully I will get some sleep in an hour or so.

Night night Caroline xx

[Calceolaria in reply to Carolinee71]

It's interesting that you suffered depression before your pain started and its even more interesting, if that's the word, that it occured to you, by yourself, to ask your doc if depression could be the cause of the pain. The answer is yes, it can. However, I am neither a medic nor a psyche but I think you should keep an open mind as to causes, especially as you do not as yet have a firm diagnosis.

[Calceolaria in reply to Carolinee71]

It's interesting that you suffered depression before your pain started and its even more interesting, if that's the word, that it occured to you, by yourself, to ask your doc if depression could be the cause of the pain. The answer is yes, it can. However, I am neither a medic nor a psyche but I think you should keep an open mind as to causes, especially as you do not as yet have a firm diagnosis.

[Calceolaria in reply to Carolinee71]

It's interesting that you suffered depression before your pain started and its even more interesting, if that's the word, that it occured to you, by yourself, to ask your doc if depression could be the cause of the pain. The answer is yes, it can. However, I am neither a medic nor a psyche but I think you should keep an open mind as to causes, especially as you do not as yet have a firm diagnosis.

[Bananas5]

Hello dosh and welcome.

Depresion with CP os known as reactive depression.

Many CPNs find it hard to treat as they are used to dealing with job loss, bereavement, moving house - the usual suspects which cause depression.

As you say - get rid of the pain and depression goes.

My husband has recently been prescribed Sertaline for his long term depression. He already takes Amitriptyline but due to other problems can not increase this.

CP management is all about manading your pain. Exercise, relaxation, pacing yourself, cocktails of drugs. It IS hard to live with such pain an only you know how much you can or can't do.

The team at the pain clinic should be able to help you. They are used to dealing with people in your condition and have sympathy and understanding second to none.

And then of course there's this forum where we try to support each other.

I hope some of this helps.

Good Luck.

Pat x

[Boozybird]

Yes, sadly it's really depressing.

[Hidden]

Hello

One of my problems, is depression it can be a real problem

The type that is called reactive depression,mine is manic.

When you consider what is going on over a long period a positive outlook to life can be coloured over a long period of time, especially if the condition like mine has gone on for over thirty years. We need to realize a positive outlook needs to be cultured. so you will need hobbies, or voluntary work that you enjoy to control negative feelings

All the best

BOB.

[Hidden]

Does anyone with chronic pain NOT have depression?

I see figures of 85% quoted, but think that's a bit of wishful thinking!

[Kat3]

My depression is completely related to my pain. On good days, I feel hopeful and mentally am ok, but on days with more pain I get extremely depressed. I find even with anti-depressants, this is the case (though the good days are a little better). Pain is depressing! As is feeling it's not always in your control.

[Bananas5]

Bob talks about 'manic depression' which is not related to CP.

And yes it is good to have a hobby or something to distract you but this is the whole point. Your pain takes over yo such an extent that you can't think about doing anything. Normal daily functions are a huge effort. Your brain tells you it is possible to paint the shed or go for a bike ride. The effort of preparation will leave you hurting 10 times as much.

The thing is not to dwell on what you used to be able to do. that has gone. Finished.

Thonl about what you can do no matter how small or insignificant it may seem. David can make a mixed grill. Not in the conventional way. he puts whatever meat on a baking tray with whole toms and mushrooms and pops it in the oven.

i plate it up, cut into his size pieces and carry through to his chair. Bit what am achievement for him.

That's my birthday treat for another year!

Pat x

[superannie]

I have never suffered from depression. Now I am in pain every day it certainly affects my mood. Yesterday morning I thought what is the point of living as I cannot cope with all the pain, discomfort etc,etc. By this afternoon my outlook has changed a little. I have paced myself today and relaxed a lot instead of trying to do things. I would love to be a lot more active but am trying to accept the fact that this is it. For now anyway. Stay well, Ann x

[Calceolaria in reply to superannie]

Same here Ann, exactly. So variable! Then I feel guilty for such destructive despairing feelings.

[superannie in reply to Calceolaria]

Yes, after I have actually uttered my" down" feelings out loud, I end up reading some article in a magazine or paper that makes me feel terrible. Always someone much worse off than myself. Then I feel I shouldn't moan at all.

I am coming to realise though, that each and every day the pain we feel is very real and all consuming to us. Never ending story . Never mind, we all do the best we can. My signature tune now is " always look on the bright side of life" Just do not sing it to me first thing in the morning! Ann xx

[hatingmypain]

I have had quite severe depression for over 20 years and sometimes (very oddly) if I'm more depressed my pain is a lot worse! Having said that, if I'm having a very bad pain day ( amongst other things I have arthritis in my spine and a mild scoliosis) then I feel more depressed so I think that pain does cause depression, not 'just' low feelings. I've been told by other docs ( not my gp) that I'm low and not depressed and don't need antidepressants which my own gp replied " absolute bollocks"! nice to have a doctor who actually understands really. I hope you find this site of use - I certainly do and am very grateful for all the help and advice I've been given, I'm sure you will too. Take care of yourself, Laura x

[Hidden]

My mania was caused much earlier than the Reactive depression, They realized that most of my problems where related to the chronic pain I was suffering hence Reactive depression.

The mania was from an earlier time. Most patients with the latter will not be manic.. Mind if manic mood changes can make matters worse. so you become reclusive and problems associated in life will be dealt with by your carer as confusion and forgetfulness are serious problems

All the best

BOB

[Calceolaria]

Apologies for my multiple replies! Website was not accepting so I kept trying with results as shown! Grr!

[PIRATE185]

Dosh hi and welcome to the site with regard to your question the short answer is yes .As the CPS comes with Pills and Feeling low its a vicious circle , all you and the rest of us can do is find the pill that helps you the best. Hope that you can enjoy the site and ask any questions that you want as some one will have the answer.

[superannie in reply to PIRATE185]

I agree, great site. I have found it so helpful and lots of help on the meds we are all juggling. I am always able to relate to what everyone has to say. I often think " That is exactly how I feel"

I would also like to say a big thank you to all the carers out there. You are doing the most fantastic job. Ann xx

[johnsmith]

Depression and exhaustion have similar symptoms. It is very easy for someone to diagnose someone suffering from exhaustion as having depression.

Managing Chronic pain is an exhausting occupation. You have to be constantly on your guard to avoid doing something that will make the pain worse. Hence it is very easy to be viewed as having depression if you have chronic pain.

I find for myself that sleep doing the day is very useful. However it means that i have to do less adjust what I do and when depending how tired I am.

Cracked by James Davies ISBN 978-184831-556-3 describes research into antidepressants. The research which looked at the unpublished drug trials as well as the published drew the conclusion that antidepressants were no more than placebo with side effects.

From the years studying myself I know from experience that when I am tired my muscles do not function as well as I like and I suffer more discomfort and pain.

There has been much work by Alexander Teachers which has demonstrated that improved muscle control will reduce pain and discomfort. You will not find this sort of work on the NICE archives because NICE will not evaluate individual therapies.

If you have a GP who sits in his office dicuses your symptoms and then prescribes then it is unlikely that your GP will know anything about muscle tension problems.

Overtense muscle which do not relax produce lactic acid which in turn produces pain.

[Calceolaria in reply to johnsmith]

John, I have been interested in all of your postings about muscle tension as I agree that this exacerbates so much of pain. Do you not think though, that tight muscles are necessary to hold up structural bone deficits ? Secondly, as an advocate of Alexander technique, how much pain relief do you reckon you have been able to achieve ?

[johnsmith]

Hi Calceolaria

Thanks for the email. I am not sure what you mean by "structural bone deficits". My understanding is that ligaments hold up the skeleton with a little input from the muscles. When you need to lift something then there is as little muscle input as possible to do the job.

It gets complicated when there has been ligament or tendon damage. Here the muscle starts to get involved in the support. This I know from my experience causes all sorts of problems. The ligaments in my back on the right has been stretched in a road traffic accident. So muscles are involved in support. They start off reasonably not tight and over a period of several weeks get tighter and tighter until a chiropractor untightens them. Then the process starts all over again.

Alexander technique

I have not been able to get total pain relief. I have days where things are not right and quite painful, but this is rare. The Alexander Technique enables me to have pain that does not bother me emotionally. It does not stop the pain at night because i have no control what my muscles do when I am half asleep. During the day the technique enables me to avoid tensing into the pain. The technique also enables me to know what is a muscle state to attempt to achieve and a muscle state which I should not enage in. This does not always work. There is of course the human infallable element.

Importantly I can be in a great deal of pain and I can still move without generating more pain. I find that I can walk off sciatica which gives me trouble when sleeping. My right arm can hurt and I can still butter toast with my right hand.

Some pain caused by tweaking a nerve by using muscle wrongly will take a little while to die down. I can't avoid the exhaustion that goes with the pain but iI can avoid the depression and other mental problems. Because the Alexander Technique is about muscle usage and some mentle problems are due to faulty muscle usage there are a lot of mental problems that can be reduced. It is obvious when someone is depressed. Their body shows it and their muscle usage amplifies it. Most of the emotions have a corresponding body musculature. Dont' engage in the emotional musculature the emotion can be still there but is not amplified and so not felt so much.

I hope this helps.

[Calceolaria in reply to johnsmith]

Thanks John. There is certainly a lot of evidence that the emotions play a huge part in pain production.

I suppose what I was getting at was, if there is a structural problem - disc degeneration, stenosis, misaligned vertebrae, would it not be necessary for muscles to tense up, so that they could support the problem area?

[johnsmith in reply to Calceolaria]

Hi Calceolaria

THis is an area that there appears to be no or little research on.

This is what I know. Muscles are not designed for support. They are designed for movement. Ligaments are designed for support.

Muscles depend on their strength on a good nutient and oxygen supply as well as the removal of waste products.

Capillaries though muscles are about 1 blood corpusal wide. As soon as a muscle contracts the capillary blood supply is cut off. This has the effect of cutting off the supply of nutrient and preventing the removal of waste product.

This effectively means that muscle in tension will build up waste products such as lactic acid if the muscle remains tense for too long. Lactic acid can cause pain and discomfort.

Muscles are strongest at their longest length which is the length they start to contract. The greater the contraction the weaker the muscle.

My understanding is that stenosis and misaligned vertebrae are caused by muscle contraction. We dont want more muscle contraction we want less. Particularly of the muscle which is causing the misalignment and stenosis

Disc degeneration can be caused by infection or by the cut off of nutients to the disc. A less tense muscle would allow nutrients to circulate to the disc. I cannot comment on the issue of infection.

The relaxing and contracting of muscle in such activites as walking acts as a blood pump squuezing blood though the viens and acteries.

Muscle tension can be deceptive. This is because we can get very relaxed muscles on the limb surface just below the skin. This relaxed muscle on the limb surface can hid very tense muscle below the surface. The result: part of the muscle is asleep and part of the muscle is so tense that it is producing a lot of lactic acid. This muscle inbalance will cause all sorts of health problems such as arthritis and tendon problems. The tendon instead of travellin smoothly in its shaeth will be pulled to one side or the other.

Prioceptors are designed to record change. The priceptors supply the movement centres with feedback as to the muscle functioning. If the prioceptor has switched off because of no change in muscle length (muscle too tense and not contracting) then there is less feedback to inform the movement centres what the muscle is doing.

I hope this helps.

[Calceolaria]

That's a very comprehensive answer thanks John. Despite some knowledge of human biology I had not really been aware of some of what you have outlined. Even if there is significant damage already, it seems it is worth trying to get the muscles into a happier state of function. Tell me, do you take any medication, or do you rely principally on stretching exercises ?

[dosh]

hi everyone,thanks for all your answers,my depresion started when my pain wouldnt go away,i was unable to do the things that i loved to do,i had to move house to a ground floor as was unable to manage stairs,i have attended the pain clinic but they are unable to help me anymore as i am intolarent to opiate medication,i am on brufen retard,pregabalin,paracetomel,and my antidepresent,and still in so much pain,it was my gp who gave me the details of this site and glad she did,i dont feel im the only one suffering from debilating conditions,thanks again

[KittyGalore]

I too have been depressed for a number of years but it was pretty much under control until the pain came along. I lost my job, the pain flared up and I hit rock bottom. They go hand in hand. Anyone who is in pain pretty much all the time, and on alot of Pain killers is bind to be a bit miserable. I have bad days and good days. It's accepting that the pain might never go away which is the hardest thing. But knowing you are not alone helps and there is always someone on here too answer your questions! I can totally empathise, it's frustrating not being able to do things you want to.

K x

[zimbabwemac]

I think I originally had depression following redundancy. However, that depression was dealt with but various accidents and the deterioration in my pain condition then provided a different level of depression. I think that it is difficult to be suffering from chronic pain and not to suffer depression. There seems so little hope and you suffer so much pain that seems to never improve, which makes some pretty good cases for being depressed. Have only recently discovered this web site, I must say that it has been the single positive thing to have happened to me in recent months.

[Hidden]

Yes I to suffer badly all the time it's affecting my hips very bad now and my back I have deep depression I can't sleep at night I'm frightens so I get some sleep during the day for the past 5mornings i've been violently sick my throat feels horrible I'm having headaches and dizziness I'm frightens to go out now I went three days we thought eating becouse I was so scared to go out I know this is all linked it's so so scary but my GP has been very understanding and helps me I've recentley started self harming something I've never done in my life my body gets so sore the soles of my feet get so bad I can't stand sometimes it's very hard and very upsetting