depression . bi polar

[juls]

Hi can anyone here help im about to be given quetiapine for bi polar anyone taking these and have they helped any.? ive tryed epilem to which made me vomit.. grrrr now they want me to try these other meds.. so tired of pills ..

[Hidden]

Hello Juls

Try ACTION ON DEPRESSION another Healthunlocked site.

Will be there tomorrow

BOB

[juls in reply to Hidden]

thanks bob.............. i got it ..

[Boozybird]

Hi Juls, it's frustrating getting the right drugs and dose but when you do the greater sense of wellbeing will be worth it. If you've had such a dramatic response to one drug then it's worth telling GP or prescribing doc that you want to titrate the dosage so you start as low as can be as these side effects disappear with time. Frustrating to start low coz you want relief but better to not be sick or headachy! Best wishes 😜

[Byfergie]

I used to work in mental health a long time ago if my memory serves me right and it is a big if quetapine is and old school drug and epilim is primarily an anti convulsant ,but can be used as a mood stabiliser you should have a look on the depression communities as they will have good advise . There are more modern versions of anti depressants or anti psychotics that so often get presribed with manic depression or bi polar and it depends on cycles doesn't it be they be instant or long don't know if this will help but be aware of the direct reason you may be having something .

Good luck let me know how you get on .

[juls in reply to Byfergie]

thanks.. i have looked .. scares me these mood stablisers. you read all the side affects with them.. but thanks for yr reply .. x

[Hidden in reply to Byfergie]

Yes I am on a depression site and I have to take the antidepressant to control nerve damage throughout my body. That is Amytryptalene

For mood I take Citalopram an antidepressant taken for depression.

On pain concern we discuss medications taken for different types of pain, I know above is correct as I need to take medications for associated Reactive Depression as well

BOB

[juls in reply to Hidden]

ok bob... im bi polar im on that other site now action on depression thanks..

[Coastwalker]

There is a Low Thyroid and Bi polar connection jules.

[juls in reply to Coastwalker]

really .......... well might make sense then i am on 125 mg of levothyroxine now.. . things have been really bad lately... ?

[Coastwalker in reply to juls]

Hi Juls,

Many of us thyroidy's don't get prescribed optimum medication and sometimes the T4 Levothyroxine medication we get given is either not enough or many cannot convert the inactive T4 into active T3.

It is the active T3 is what is needed in almost all of our cells.

(You might already know this.)

Being undermedicated for Hypothyroid can bring about depression and brain fog amongst many others symptoms.

*Thyroid patients should not be on depression medications as it can make them feel far worse. (I have seen many videos explaining why, but too complicated for me to explain in a few words.)

Do you know what all your blood test results are for thyroid ?

TSH

FT4

FT3

Also have you had these important bloods done for a full thyroid picture:-

Vitamin B12 (Vitamin B12 Deficiency, mimics Low Thyroid)

Vitamin D

Ferritin (stored iron

Iron

Folate.

2 x Thyroid antibodies.

If so get a printout of your last bloods done and their ranges and pop them up on Thyroid Uk here on Health Unlocked for other members to help you see the grey areas in the blood ranges Doctors normally miss or ignore. Grey areas can still present as symptoms.

[juls in reply to Coastwalker]

just had them done.. last month they were all fine.. TPO antibodies were high which they tested those 9 years ago. i'm on small does of vit D . as that was insufficient . all my other bloods were done before i was put on epilim last month too. ive always been under doctors since being a teen with mental health issues.

[Coastwalker in reply to juls]

Many are told their thyroid results are Normal/fine/OK, when many are definitely NOT.

Your TSH and FT4 might be showing 'normal' but your FT3 might be low in range.

Doctor might think you are on the correct dose of T4 medication, but what if your body does not convert your non active T4 into the active T3 your body needs ? This happens to so many Thyroid UK members, yet they are all told they are Normal/fine/OK, but they still feel crap.

You need to do a FT3 bloods test to find out what is really going on, especially if you are still not feeling OK.

Also T3 is now starting to be given out by some Doctors as a depression medication, as T3 works better and faster than many depression pills, not sure if every Doctor know this though.

Please pop onto the Thyroid Uk forum on here Health Unlocked and ask about taking depression pills and having Hypothyroidism.

Also ask for a printout of all bloods done and their ranges and pop them up on Thyroid Uk for other members to help you, Doctors are not good at optimally medicating most of us, we usually have to work it out ourselves.

[Coastwalker in reply to juls]

Many members on Thyroid Uk now ask for some active T3 along with their inactive T4 as they cannot convert T4 into T3 in their bodies.

You do need to know your last Thyroid results Juls as that will be an excellent pointer as to what is going on and get your thyroid optimally medicated.

I had to keep asking my Doctor to UP my medication (Levothyroxine,) I now self medicate as I know my Doctor was not prepared to 'up' my medication any more, I felt crap at the time now under self medication I feel back to normal.

Doctors sadly are clueless in finding and treating Thyroid.

[Coastwalker in reply to juls]

T3 is also a thyroid medication Juls as you probably know.

T3 is needed in almost every cell.

Doctors are starting to use T3 for patients with depression as it is a better and faster acting depression medication.

(Not saying your Doctor will be up to date on T3 and depression.)

*There is several websites saying that T3 is helping bipolar.

Low T3 is seen in people with Baby Blues, Aspergers, Depression,

Bi polar, Tourettes, ASD etc., and taking T3 is now known to help these people.

You have Low Thyroid (Hypothyroidism)

Low Thyroid is measured ONLY by your FT4 and FT3 bloods.

Your TSH and inactive FT4 bloods might look normal, but you need to know what level your ACTIVE FT3 blood is.

Doctors should be also doing the FT3 bloods to give a proper picture of how well you are converting T4 to T3

Many taking T4 only medication are NOT converting their inactive T4 to their much needed T3.

Remember Hypothyroids should not be taking depression drugs, it will mess you up.

(An Idea only) - ask your Doctor about T3 medication for depression Juls.

Good luck.

Please do some googling yourself about Bi polar, low thyroid and taking T3.

[juls in reply to Coastwalker]

ok ill ask my doctor about this .. thanks x

[Coastwalker in reply to juls]

Do some research too juls.

[chairbasedIns1]

Bipolar means you were born with a chemical imbalance in the brain which makes your highs-HIGH and your lows-LOW more than other people so you need the right drug to help stabilise that. I agree to start on a low dose and build up. Have you been referred to a medical consultant who specialises in the condition.We are all different and different drugs work better in different people, so it is a 'bit' trial and error till you find the right one, but it should be a great help when you do. Did you know that often 'bipolar' people are often the most intelligent.

Keep at it with the right guidance.Hope all goes well.

[juls]

Thanks for your reply's.. im under a psychiatrist right now have been for about 6 weeks now. also a cpn nurse comes to see me at home from time to time.. im on citalopram been knocked down to 20mg from 40mg.. so they can start me on quetiapine .. i just want to get back to being me.. which i doubt is going to happen any time soon. any way im getting all the help right now.. so cheers for yr answers .. x

[Hidden]

What was the problem

[Byfergie]

You are in the grieving period and are possibly angry frustrated ,disempowered by it all ,when things change it is so hard bit of advise get the best practioners involved quiz them you need to understand as much as possible .Are you able to get to a chemist to discuss what options of drugs are available ,they are informed in a way I feel doctors aren't and citalopram has been the Ssri I think of the last few years that has been in fashion .

Are you better with or without Meds and what are the changes keeping a diary is important and the general rule of thumb with Meds is that for them to be out of your system you need to give them the same amount time you were on them .

Turkey leg meat has ltripophane in it I think and I'm sure that can help with the seratonin levels in your brain ,look at other foods that can help perhaps ,go to a good independent health food store and see what bits minerals or go and see a nuitrionist , I wouldn't and this is just an opinion try hypericum it's dangerous in my opinion .

I am on Lego thyroxine since 93 .

Was there a trauma in your life that changed things ?

What is the overall plan that the psych team have ?

Are you alone or are other there to be supportive or not?what is your role in this apart from being the patient empower yourself as much as possible ,I don't know the severity of your condition but you seem lucid enough to be talking do you feel they have diagnosis right I don't know but don't feel afraid to question ,I have fentanyl induced hyperalgesia and in the early stages when I suffered a breakdown manic depression was a term that I heard more than once it wasn't , you know your own body and the mind is part of that.

Even if the diagnosis is correct what can you do to deal with how you feel ?

I accessed a creative response group and when I'm well enough to get there they don't make me feel other because of what has happened are you getting out at all?

Have social services got any involve the perhaps you could get a reenablement package so you can focus ahead .

There is illness and there is you ,and for me now it's like a relationship that you don't want to be in but you have to coexist respectfully in order to achieve and sometimes one will speak louder than the other but balance is what you are trying to work towards and I stopped looking at the big picture ,perhaps there is a publication for mindfulness for bi-polar or is there a psychologist you could access through the cmht?

Hope this sounds hopeful!

[Jtal19305]

If possible start with treatment with psychologist first and avoid meds. Find root cause of issue and try to remedy without strong medications which have side effects and are hard to come off. Avoid intimate relationships until you resolve your bipolar issue. Change diet to avoid gluten and artifical ingredients and preservatives and other neuro toxic foods. Exercise and find relaxing environments. Try hypnotherapy and talk therapy. Don't just think of drugs as the first line treatment. It should be last resort. If you have to take an anti psychotic, Know side effects. Many will dampen your sex drive. Try bio feedback therapy. One simple technique, take a rubber band around your wrist and each time you start an episode on the wrong pole, snap the rubber band to give you a gentle pain reminder that it's no good to act this way. Do this religiously and it may help. Good luck and believe in yourself. Know and understand the triggers for your behaviour. Seek counseling if you have anger management issues or bouts of depression. Quit smoking if you do, and avoid alcohol which strongly effects the brain and other important organs. Clean out and organize your life. Have a plan, set of written goals. Develop good habits, and take on some hobbies you enjoy to use your time wisely. Help others less fortunate than yourself by volunteering your time. Live in the moment of NOW and don't wander backward or forward with worries. Politely eliminate negative "friends" from your life. If you are not happy in your job, change your attitude or your job. Learn to love yourself first before taking on a partner. Love others and be kind to strangers. Avoid negatively and negative sources like gossipy people, shows, news, bars, bad people, street drugs. Realize everyone you meet is a force that will impact you for good or bad. Read and educate yourself, and study psychology so you can understand better how the mind works. If you are truly mentally ill, seek the best medical care and take your recommended medications. Realize that most these drugs do the same basic things. They alter brain chemicals like serotonin by interruptiom of reputable inhibitors. Realize that after reading the medical literature, the pharmaceutical company can't even explain why or how exactly many of these drugs work or help you. The literature will state this fact if it applies to the drugs you are taking. See a very good medical doctor for your condition but ask smart questions. Good luck and you will get better. Jerry

[Byfergie]

Have just remembered lavender oil a psychologist once told me that the quickest ruin into the nervous system is the olfactory nerve have a tissue or put a few drops on wrist or clothing and inhale in times of stress as it will help relax agitation anxiety etc it generally takes up to 3.5 mins to work.

[johnsmith]

Bi polar is a name for a set of symptoms as defined in the DSM. The cause for the problem is not listed in the DSM. Chemical imbalance which needs to be fixed is often snake oil definition that has come about because of the pharmaceutical companies.

There are investigations that can be carried out using mindfulness and meditation type techniques. The Bipolar high could be a breathing problem. The depression could be just plain mental exhaustion with bereavement issues thrown in.

What is easier? A time consuming investigation which looks at how you manage yourself, or a quick pill prescription which takes just 5 minutes to decide on?

For reference purposes:

“Cracked” ISBN: 9781848315563 a book written by James Davies Senior Lecturer Social Anthropology and Psychotherapy at The University of Roehampton (London UK) details some of the misleading and dishonest research results that have been presented in Professional Journals and conferences by psychiatrists.

“Bad Pharma” ISBN 978-0-00-735074-2 a book written by Ben Goldacre in 2012 details how drug companies mislead doctors and harm patients.

In the 6th September 2014 New Scientist there was an article which referred to Diederik Stapel who in 2011 admitted to inventing the data in dozens of psychology research papers.. The New Scientist referred to 24 of Stapel's papers which are known to be fraudulent. The New Scientist in previous editions has referred to Fraudulent results in Scientific papers by other Authors. This does raise the question how accurate is the knowledge that the medical practitioner is using to make a diagnosis and prescribe treatment.

Cracked and Bad Pharma are useful books for you to read and digest. It could be a matter of life and death as some drugs given for so-called bipolar are known to have caused heart attacks.

Reply to this if you want further details with respect to investigating Bipolar issues.

[juls]

This is why i asked the question .. as they are doing a ECG this tuesday. checking my heart out before i go on these.. . i can not go into everything about what has been happening over the years. i don't go out the house or if i do i need someone with me.. long storey .. but first ly i was diagnosed with cyclothymia.. B PD . emotional dysregulation, and this is all bi polar related. years ago i was diagnosed with borderline schizophrenia... im lost with all these .. someone up there said i seem lucid. yes i am when im on my own.. its being around people when im a mess. but im so happy to hear from you all .. thank you

[pennybobs1]

i have bipolar disorder with episodes ov schzioprenia i used to be on tegretol n epilim n also quitipine but dodnt stablize me the way they were meant took them with velaxapine which is a good combo i know take lithium n also haloperidol n zoppers n see shrink every 3 monthscos episodes cum more often now they r scary