On Monday we went to local Garden Centre and were bumped aside by a couple of females who didn't sanitise hands or have masks on. My softly spoken husband politely said to one had she forgotten her mask. To get a reply that was shouted about having COPD (so has he and Asthma), we couldn't find an assistant so I wrote to the centre and got a cut and paste reply. So I replied ok but how does having COPD mean they don't need hand sanitiser and both of them ? and so I'd contact the Covid Enforcement Team. Which I did, poor Local Public Health Inspectors who are trying to carry out this role have no power to enforce anything and have had a lot of complaints and do visit premises. But its a joke, the Police don't have time to go with them and with so many shops and garden centres, never mind pubs and restaurants they just can't do more than "offer advice" ! It is going to get worse and then today I got the first 'at very high risk' letter. But as we left the big Garden Centre my husband said we could try Springhead down the road. So we went there, it has no Christmas decorations or even a cafe just plants. And I had lovely time the pansies were half the price, they had a lovely selection of grasses and I spent a lot of dosh and the garden today is busting with winter colour (I supervised the position of the plants) and we awaiting the delivery of some big shrubs. So big garden centre you lost our custom and I'd bet we spent a lot more than the 2 foul mouthed females who I think may have had deep pockets. As the PH inspector said best way to enforce the rules is for people to take their custom elsewhere if they notice a problem in a shop, and report them.
So not wearing a mask !: On Monday we went to local... - NRAS
So not wearing a mask !
Some angry people will take their bad mood and aggression out on anyone at the moment who asks them why they are not complying. My husband saw some foul mouth abusing another guy in Tesco recently. Foul mouth refused to put a mask on yet Tesco staff wouldn’t step in to assist. I’m sorry you met these very unpleasant people. I wish too there were people to stop them behaving in this way. Glad you got your plants. I sent off for all of my winter plants this time.
Sadly to say there are quick to temper people in this world at the best of times and with this global pandemic it certainly has the capacity to create tensions and outbursts of aggressive defensive behaviour in some. Again some people battle against conforming 'because they can' and sadly in this instance the powers that be have no power to enforce, so the behaviour is allowed to continue. Whilst these kind of people think they are achieving and getting the 'attention' by behaving in their reckless manner, they should be pitied as they are sad individuals craving or drawing attention to themselves be it in a negative way...'because we can and so what' is their mindset and as you say aren't really out to spend or prize open their purses or wallets to make a worthwhile purchase to the garden centre. Sadly as you say it is a joke....that is not funny in respect of trying to enforce powers on these behaviours in a range of settings. So I think you did the right thing by walking away and it was win win for you in respect of going to a smaller centre and getting good quality plants at a much better price. While there are some genuine people with health conditions that prevent mask wearing and I'm sure maybe some have been approached, I am sure their response would not be the same as you encountered at the garden centre.
I can't wear a mask and people like these make my life hell. I was in a charity shop a couple of weeks ago and i heard a woman ask the assistant shouldn't i be wearing a mask and the assistant said no as she is very ill, and i piped up that not only d i have severe asthma i also have COPD. The thing is the woman often sees me and she could have asked me instead of talking behind my back. xxx
That is the sad side of things as these people make it so hard for genuine people like yourself. xx
Yes thats so true, one I'd have understood but both having COPD after barging past us? And they just grabbed a trolley so not only not sanitising hands the next person who used that trolley even if after sanitising hands is contaminated. Its a circle of could give a damm about anyone else. So I think we did the right thing, but its dreadful that the EHO has no power to do more than warn and advise the shop. I bet you can't scream abuse even if you wanted too sadly its no wonder the virus is spreading. xxx
I had lady ask the shop assistant in the charity shop i was in should i be wearing a mask and the assistant said no as she is ill and i piped up and said i have severe asthma and Copd. , Your right when you say a lot of people don't care, they are the sort of people who make it hard for people like me.xxx
A simple way is to wear plastic gloves. Once on, you hardly know they're there. When you get home, just wash your gloved hands, dry on a towel and remove gloves for your next foray to a supermarket, or wherever. Great if you use busses or trains with handrails , etc.
Those people who use cars in preference to so-called 'filthy, germ-ridden public transport' should consider that many transport bodies use anti-germ fogging machines in depots, wipe down hand rails, etc. Do car owners make similar efforts? It's the nasties that you bring back into the car that need attention.
I agree with gloves and funnily enough have a supply of disposable blue ones in the car. If my sister can wear a mask and all the kit 10 hours+ a day to help people then I can do my bit for the trip out. This incident really made me think just how easy it is to come into contact with the foolish and irresponsible. Saddens me though that the effort to help each other is seen by some to be "none of my business" because I think its all our business to drive down the risk factor for the common good.
Good for you, we too use another garden centre which does what it says on the box it is a garden centre and it sells all the plants and shrubs you would need without the fancy price.xxxx
I get so cross with people who have such disregard for the life and wellbeing of others.
There are many good people who have all manner of reasons to not wear a mask, yet they do. Thank goodness these kind souls outnumber the aggressive non-carers.
We will get through this, we will find alternatives as you did.
Stay strong, stay safe and go softly
Why are people so aggressive when simply asking a question. Even shop assistants are frightened of pulling people up! I thought if people didn’t comply with the rules you’ll be fined. Not sure whether you know there’s a nice garden centre called Elm Court Garden Centre, Capstone Rd, Gillingham, although I haven’t been in there since March they generally have a decent selection also a decent cafeteria xx
I do know and its lovely this one was on the A2.
Which garden centre did you visit, I live close to the A2 xx
Well I'm not surprised at your thoughts but fortunately the Environmental Health Officer did not agree. It is all our responsibility to make sure we and others are safe. Then again you probably do not know anything about a shops duty to ensure customer safety. That is another matter, and the EHO said others have also complained so unless it was you and a chum then you really are being a wee bit silly. Sorry but follow the path of contagion no masks = more risk plus THEY DID NOT HAVE THERE OWN SANITISER and so just a reminder its hands, face, space.
Millbrook, but just up further at Springhead its great and a heck of a lot cheaper too. They always do our baskets so after my AKI I can't garden like I used too and sold the greenhouse in the Spring. The EHO was very helpful.
We was in Elm Court last week (Elmleigh is a prison I've visited on Sheppy although I hasten to add it was not for personal reasons. Lol, I've wanted to commit the odd crime but never done so) but they had sold out of the pots we wanted. That was our fault as we'd left it to take my car to pick more up never thinking they might sell out. So I blamed the husband ! and we bought our Orangery furniture their years ago, they do a good Gluten free cake as well. xxx
I'm going back to see if they have any more orchids this week as they last for ages in the bathroom and look lovely. Plants cheer me up on a grey day. xxx
Unfortunately I don’t know Gravesend area, have never visited Millbrook or Springhead. Sadly of late they’re restricted to supplies, it’s all since the Covid plus they get in new lines. I will try Millbrook Garden Centre, will go with a friend I have no sense of direction at all! I’ll end up getting lost, took ages to learn route to Capstone, Gillingham, only grateful traffics never been diverted otherwise would get lost despite using a sat nav.
Have you tried Ruxley Garden Centre or Polhill ? xx
Polhill lunch is very good, and Ruxley on the odd occasion. Millbrook is very expensive for lunch now £13 for fish and chips and they must know they have a problem as you can only go in as a member to track and trace. No doubt about it Springhead is better they do the flowers for Molly Wisdom House and Gravesham Council they propagate and do they're own pansies so really good quality. It you fancy a trip out then Brogdale near Faversham is the home of the National Fruit Collection you have to book to go in but the food is great. We've got three fruit trees coming in December bare rooted so next year we'll have apples and greengages on the trees. Here we used to be surrounded by plum orchards and pear orchards just down the road a bit. Now all but gone its sad but if people want plums in December then they come in from South Africa. One orchard is being replanted with Conference pears so we didn't buy any pear trees. lol x
Some very ignorant people about,yous done the right thing taking your business elsewhere xxx
It is the right thing to do, their was no staff so once again my husband was sanitising the trolley whilst I was just looking at a car coming in, it pulled up in the empty car park nearby but not in a disabled bay, they got out and DID NOT do any of your suggestions and pushed past us in a rush grabbing a trolley and in the shop. Unless it was you then I'd suggest you being very defensive in a matter you were not witness too. I really don't care whether or not you like wearing a mask, its not the issue what is, is its the advice of SAGE subject to Covid regulations and I think supported by every doctor and nurse in the World. My sister has had the virus perhaps you are not at the risk that means you take this virus seriously ! I am so do take every precaution without being stupid. But of course if you have better advice I'm sure you should advise SAGE because it might be important. By the way no need to wear a nappy as Mask Bros do packs of 100 on the internet at a very good price.
WE DID NOT QUESTION THEM, ONCE AGAIN MY HUSBAND GENTLY ASKED AS HE DOES HAVE COPD AND ASTHMA HE CAN' T SHOUT THAT HAD THEY FORGOTTEN THEIR MASKS. NO LANYARD OR SHIELD WAS WORN. CLEARLY HAD IT BEEN JUST ONE IT OF THE FEMALES IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN PLAUSIBLE BUT BOTH ? FURTHERMORE IT IS UP TO EVERYONE OF US TO PROTECT EVERYONE ELSE.
I agree with you M-L, re masks but can’t comment too much as it appears it got heated here with some replies to your post. 😑 I’m just dashing in and out here as I’m doing several things at once today! Multitasking!! Again, I’m sorry you had such a bad experience and those women were horrible. I read a long time ago that if both people are wearing masks then the chances of spreading the virus are much less and medical staff at my hospital have said exactly the same, so that’s got to be a reason to wear them. I can’t find the article but it was a very good. You can’t prove it but you can’t prove against it and it makes sense to protect your nose and mouth rather than not. X
You can't do right from wrong with this virus. So please everyone can we calm this down and remain friends.
xxxx
Not sure whose upset ? Sorry Sylvi I'm not. xxx
FOR GODNESS SAKE just stop ! no one called them liars although clearly if someone or in this case two can scream you're f------g b_____d entirely unprovoked you're in a fantasy world. And I will continue to ignore your advice as its ridiculous. We all have to follow the advice of the Covid Legislation whether we like it or not. If you don't then just pass by, the number of likes indicates a lot of others would do the same. Just stop trying to distort a post about an event which you were not at. I'm certain I did the right thing and I hope that the visit from a EHO does change things as a couldn't care less attitude to public safety will mean more people in Intensive Care. Its simple really just follow the advice of the Government and the EHO does know a heck of a lot about public health more than me and I think you too.
I took issue with my golf club as the staff were not wearing masks, and during a socially distanced conversation the manager told me, while laughing, that they couldn’t insist on masks.
A few of the members joined me in my quest to improve the Covid compliance within the clubhouse. We succeeded.
I honestly find the attitude of some people appallingly selfish, uncaring and downright disrespectful.
Clearly, many people disagree. Not much I can do about that, but I am heartened by those who care enough to take care for all our sakes.
My husbands club has had someone visit with Covid and he got a message to tell him via the club. At least he wasn't there that day but don't we all need to look to each other. Its seems so simple yet unbelievable that its so easy to scream COPD and s-d the rest of us from the politically correct brigade. I'd say ok but I have like you a sense of social responsibility, That means I'll ignore the nonsense in favour of common sense for the common good.
I was in Aldi last week and a man walked by me with no mask on but had an unlit cigarette in his mouth. I was not happy and I heard other customers talking about it but no member of staff approached him ☹️
Makes me wonder what planet these people live on or don't they have a tv, radio or read a newspaper; bet your bottom dollar they'd be screaming for a doctor as it's not their fault if god forbid they or a member of their family get it, nothing ever is for those types of people. i hate to admit this but its looking like we need another method of enforcing the legislation as clearly asking people isn't working in some cases.
The world has gone crazy. But for personal safety I keep quiet and move away. People are getting shot(United States) either wearing or not wearing a mask. It's just one more excuse for the irrational, angry people to shoot. Don't confront either way for your own piece of mind. I don't think the English walk around carrying guns like here but still, they have cars, knives and fists. None of it's worth dying over.
What a lot of nonsense! You should surely know that, what you call a "forced nappy around" your mouth, is not effective against inhaled germs -medical grade for that- but to help stop you infecting others, The mask should cover your nose as well as your mouth. The defence against Corona virus involve thinking of others. You could be asymptomatic.
Your response is, frankly vitriolic
I haven’t been to Polhill since late last year but enjoy going. Ruxley is easy for me to get to, they’ve started getting Christmas pieces in, do like buying from the butchers food hall.
I have not had lunch in Ruxley they don’t seem to cater for Coeliacs only in the way of cakes. I will have to visit Springhead garden centre. Really needing to book,must be good I will go with my friend she knows Faversham. You have green fingers enjoy gardening, I’ve got conifer trees and a weeping willow. Hanging baskets unfortunately didn’t grow anything this year. When I was able to eat pears I’ve never liked Conference pears always seemed to hard was fine for juicing.
Another garden centre you might not of tried which is Woodlands Garden Centre in West Kingsdown, that’s my favourite, it’s been extended family run, they have a bistro, you do need to book. I will give couple of the garden centres a visit, it’s nice to try others xx
For a real real treat look up Franky's Garden Centre near Staplehurst. It grows thousands of cyclamen and has a restaurant which can only be decided as awesome. Everything is local, seasonal and they even sell their home made bread to take home. It is very special indeed. When I was fit we used to do tea shop walks anything from 3 to 20 miles and found some lovely little places. And pub walks and water walks too. But sadly the AKI put paid to that. Never mind can't be undone so have to get on with life and very good it is too. Id recommend Franky's as it has an open kitchen and a lot of gf food. High quality and its so relaxing. Even makes its own ice cream. Not cheap but lovely. xx
What do you mean by "... do not work...."? Masks are only effective in helping to stop YOU spreading germs. Which half of the scientists are you listening to?
Gloves the biggest spreaders? That's not true. Surgeons, etc wear them in operating theatres for a very good reason. Perhaps you have higher qualifications and experience?
With regards to gloves, they only wear them in one spot, for a very short time, and change frequently.
For shopping they do more harm than good, and medics have pleaded with the public not to buy them, as it was creating a shortage for them
Surgeons wear gloves for a short time? My triple by-pass op certainly wasn't a short time. Change frequently? Is that true? Maybe you have operating theatre experience? How do gloves used in shopping do more harm than good? I use them to protect myself against others who look at a product then replace it, probably in the wrong place. They are also useful on bus handrails, doors in public buildings, etc. As for medics complaining of shortages.... that was true of all PPE.
But they issued a statement urging us not to use gloves.
The statement explains fully why they are not useful out and about.
Masks, we have been asked to wear.
Gloves, we have been asked not to.
Your surgeon was in a sterile environment, and did not keep his gloves on once finished, he used them in one space,and one space only.
I don't personally have operating theatre experience, but my mum did.
She assisted in many operations
OK , so who is 'they'? We have so many 'authorities', and people who think they know, telling us what we must, or must not do. Personally, I listen to government advice, and use my common sense.
" They" were Dr's and nurses.
The government have never asked us to wear gloves
Never mind what the government says, or does or does not advise, the purpose is to protect ourselves, surely. If choose to wear gloves, in certain circumstances, then I will continue to do so. They are readily available to the general public so, if there was a genuine shortage they would be withdrawn from sale by government edict. End of.
More than one reputable source has asked the public not to use disposable gloves due to the risk of contamination. They are unlikely to be sterile if you're buying them by the box, unless specifically medical grade. Even so they are porous & the longer you wear them the easier it is for pathogens to penetrate the supposed protective cover. You could touch something contaminated, you just don’t know & then you touch something else, say in a supermarket, then touch your phone or shopping list. You pick up something someone else has picked up & put back on the shelf. It could be multiple items it's spread to. Even something as simple as taking off the gloves incorrectly could mean you risk being contaminated. It's a false sense of security. Being vigilant in sanitising hands regularly continues to be the recommendation. Don't forget to do so before you touch anything in your car too. Or, if you do continue to wear gloves hopefully you take them off before opening the car door.
Yes, it's quite normal for surgeons to change gloves whilst operating. They have to be changed if they get nicked by instruments to protect both patient & surgeon. I would say in a CABG op of approx 4 hours, even longer, they'd be changed approx 3 times...from incision & commencement of bypass, then bypass to sternum closure & again from sternum closure to skin closure. This doesn't account for any incidental nicks.
See my reply to donnbrain
Which one please? My response was to yours re your question “Surgeons wear gloves for a short time?”
I have operating theatre experience, gloves are changed routinely throughout surgery of any length and at the opening of body cavities, this would be true not only of surgeons, but all staff assisting the surgeon. Gloves are also often changed on the opening new equipment.
Sometimes double gloving is used, as it can be easier to peel off one set of gloves and have the sterile set underneath.
The same is true of masks, with the assisting nurses changing the surgeons masks throughout the operations, one of my roles as a junior nurse , 'new masks and gloves please, being my command to act'.
Its not false security its Covid regulations moreover the British Lung Foundation says that having COPD does not give people an exemption at all. No reason why people can't wear a mask and in fact if they are asymptomatic actually as most like me with Brochectasis cough a bit they'd be super spreaders !Its a fallacy not based in fact it might be making a few uncomfortable but then we have shields too and its most definitely not harmful. Plus shops do have the right to refuse people entry to people not wearing masks. Please look up the Lung Foundation and no problem here about gloves ! does it matter if black leather, knitted or latex. I agree about disposal but thats an entirely different matter as they might pollute the rivers and endanger wildlife. But I have a sharps bin and can control the disposal of needles so why is it so hard for people in your area to dispose of masks responsibly. I'd suggest asking your local authority to enforce street cleaning or put up signs to take used masks home for proper disposal. Here we have paper collection so just bung in a bag and seal for the paper collection on Fridays. Even though my husband has COPD and Asthma he's lucky as he doesn't cough but I do. I can't bear the thought of passing this virus on by coughing in a shop so will wear a mask even if it makes me uncomfortable and so I think would most sensible people. If those who police, nurse us or fix our teeth or examine our eyes for example can wear them like my sister and son for 8/10 or more hours a day a few minutes in a shop isn't really an issue for me.
From British Lung Foundation a direct quote "Most people with a lung condition, even if it’s severe, can manage to wear a face mask for a short period of time, and shouldn't worry if they need to wear one. Wearing a mask does not reduce a person’s oxygen supply or cause a build-up of carbon dioxide. You may have read stories that say that it can, but this isn’t true.
Face coverings can make breathing feel uncomfortable. This is mostly because they trap heat. As the weather gets cooler, and in places with air conditioning, wearing a face covering might feel easier.
It’s a good idea to try out wearing a face covering at home – it might not feel comfortable straight away, so it’s worth wearing one for short intervals around the house to try and get used to wearing one. You can also experiment with different types of covering. The feeling of wearing one might take time to get used to, but trying different types and starting with short periods of time can help you feel more comfortable.
Just having a lung condition doesn’t make you exempt from wearing a face covering. But if you have a lung condition that makes you breathless and find wearing a face covering makes you feel too breathless, the governments in all 4 nations have said you don’t have to wear one, whatever the situation."
I suggest you look this up as it goes on to say that people can be refused entry to shops as well. Your using misleading information and I'm not going to comment about any other member that is entirely inappropriate and your inferred presumption is very offensive.
No one at all without a doctors note, and they should carry a lanyard or pass with a photo on issued by the NHS or Council much like a blue badge. This virus is deadly for those at risk and there may never be a vaccine so we could be wearing masks for the foreseeable future. In that case not wanting to wear one stops being an option and has to be a punishable offence without very good reason. I'm not qualified to say who should or should not wear one but if we provide details like applying for blue badge then the local authority could issue a pass. The problem is its too easy to just scream COPD as it damages those who do have it by implication. So it has to be possible to enforce a rule whilst not punishing people. We all have a responsibility for the common good don't we ?
You speak with wisdom here. 💗
They are forced all the time to the DSS, the DWP applying for Council Tax Benefit or Housing Benefit. But this is about public safety and so yes I do disagree with you. I can't understand why anyone would object to providing information to get a pass for a mask its the same principle as applying for a blue badge and it would protect them plus I can promise you its all confidential and would stop instantly all the issues in one action.
No one minds shoving a blue badge on the dashboard to get a parking space so what is the difference. It doesn't say why the person has it just that they qualify for one.
You what you asked me a question ???? I'm not going to respond anymore and this is nonsense. You've clearly no experience in any form of working in the Benefits Sector and are making statements that are simply untrue. Believe what you will fortunately I do know that saying something doesn't make it true no matter how many times its said. So end of the day believe what you will perhaps one day you'll regret not wearing a mask. I hope not but time will tell.
You must read your own posts. And finally I have never ever made any comments about fraud and benefits in the context your claiming. This is now absurd why do you ask a question and not like the reply. No don't answer, that I don't actually care. If you think that I've made offensive or comments implying someone is committing fraud then please do report me as I'm not denying you an opportunity to take this further. This now stops or I shall take it further because you're getting close to libelling me.
Please, please just stop contradicting yourself and your not making any sense now. I'm not insured to give advice so would never dream of doing so, you may remember another ex Benefits Officer saying the same a while ago. And its up to you what you do but you cannot make sweeping assumptive statements about things when you don't know anything about peoples actual circumstances. Be careful what you say because not everything you read on the internet is true. I would point out that PIP is age related so your not even correct with your latest post above. Over 64 you cannot claim for PIP !! So I'm now going to watch TV as I've had enough of this trivia.
Oh, God..... here we go again! How come that you say masks and gloves are spreading the virus, them you continue with "Hospital staff.....etc". You also say it's what you have seen over the last four months! Which planet was that on?
I do sanitise my hands, frequently. I do the same with my gloves, if it's appropriate to wear them. I wear a washable mask, and don't just chuck away the one-time use ones like many do.
Obviously, only medical grade masks and gloves give somewhere near perfect protection. Protection for non-medical people isn't perfect. But it's better than no protection. That, plus social distancing is acting responsibly.
I note on this site a few who give lectures on operating theatre techniques, the behaviour of pathogens, etc ad nauseam. All very interesting, but not really helpful or, dare I say relevant to the more sensitive or nervous.
I am from Malaysia. Right now we are under enhanced movement control order, anyone found without mask will be fine right away. Beside we can be also jailed.
To me, to protect both sides, it is our duty to wear a mask when outside. Like some said, if anyone walking without a mask, t not many over here, I will just walk far away and go to other place instead.
Why has the matter of mask, and/or glove wearing turned into what can only be described as a bitching session? This, surely is not the objective of this site.
I imagine that my comment will invite further vituperative comment.
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