Electric scooters

Hi,

I visited Marseille, before the lockdown, and was really impressed how they had introduced bikes and electric scooters in the town - and they were used regularly.

Now I've just heard that it's going to be (or is already) legal to ride these electric scooters in the UK, and that our government are thinking about promoting their use post/during lockdown.

I think this is a great idea and am considering this as an alternative to public transport. At the moment I can't travel the 14 mile journey to see my mum and help her out, but with one of these, I could wizz over at any time. They even have lights built in.

Just wondered if anyone here has any personal experience of them?

Any info is very welcome. Thanks

L

[helixhelix]

Just being knocked over by one as can’t hear it coming! I have a friend in Paris who hates them as ridden by people with no road sense.

[Hidden in reply to helixhelix]

That's such a good point!!

I hadn't thought of that.

Thanks

L

[Neonkittie17 in reply to helixhelix]

Exactly my experiences last May in Paris.

[oldtimer]

I would be a bit worried about being about to control it enough on uneven pavements or roads with my poor grip and painful wrists. And perhaps also falling off, although my balance is much improved since doing the exercises that the physio suggested. Can you try one out first?

[Hidden in reply to oldtimer]

Hi

I'm not too bad with my grip (at the moment) and I dare say that using handles more might actually improve my grip - but who knows with RD?

The one I've seen has a bit of suspension built in, but I know what you mean about our roads and pavements - we still have cobbled streets in the city near me. That would be risky.

The only way to try one is to go abroad I think, and we are not likely to be doing that again for a long while!

By the time we are allowed to use them here in the UK, the designs might be more accommodating, and safer.

Glad to hear you've got your balance back in shape. I too could do with those exercises.

Take care.

L

[AgedCrone]

Just that they are really expensive for what they are.....

I honestly can’t imagine them becoming legal in the UK ...especially when roads return to normal...they are too dangerous to pedestrians on pavements & too dangerous to their riders on the roads....

Would they need a licence....insurance....a crash helmet?

Wait & see I guess!

[Hidden in reply to AgedCrone]

Hi,

You got me wondering if they are legal - and after a bit of googling, I've discovered that they aren't in the UK, yet, unless you are on private land. But it looks as though the Dept of Transport is reviewing the law (as it's not illegal to use an electric bike - without insurance or helmet) and as more and more countries are promoting them as a greener alternative.

For the costs; they are much cheaper than an electric bike (which I'm also considering).

Then there's a thing called a GoPed ie a scooter with a moped engine - very noisy!

As you quite rightly say, we shall see, possibly in the next few months. Hopefully they will include all the safety aspects.

L

[AgedCrone in reply to Hidden]

Unfortunately one person has already been killed on the road in London riding illegally, & when traffic is back to normal the thought of young people standing on one those scooters, with or without a helmet, makes my blood run cold. When you think about it a helmet wouldn’t be much use if you fell off under a car would it?

As a driver I am constantly made aware of how cyclists imagine cars can stop on a sixpence, & that by sticking out an arm they can turn safely a few feet in front of a huge lorry. Most times they can’t - as A&E records show. I’m sure if there were scooter parks they would be great fun, but not on the average busy road.

I haven’t investigated at all.....but being legal or illegal only makes a difference in court......not practically on the road......no one is going to stand less chance of having an accident just because they are legal. If insurance wasn’t required young people would be drawn to them like they were to little Vespas & Lambrettas.....back in the 1960’s(they did need insurance) ..they had no experience except riding their bikes & many times it ended badly.

Do you really think you stand on a scooter for 14 miles to visit your mother? As you are on this site I am presuming you have RA.....isn’t the thought of falling off on a busy road terrifying?

Just think what it would be like in the rain in the winter! Brrrrr!

[Hidden in reply to AgedCrone]

Hi,

You've made some very valid points here and lets just hope that government consider everything before making any decisions.

As for the 14 miles standing up - not sure. It would probably take an hour none stop so a coffee stop (half way) would be in order - with cake. And I'd be able to use the less used back roads rather than the main road, over the hills. There's a very good farm shop out that way too.

Realistically though, it's probably not practical!

X

[AgedCrone in reply to Hidden]

How would you carry anything? Trailer or Rucksak?🛴🛴🛴🛴

Think you had better raid the piggy bank& buy an old banger! Or splash out on a taxi at least one way!

[Neonkittie17 in reply to AgedCrone]

They have some with a wide standing facility for both feet side by side and a little perch saddle and a small box/pannier at the back. Zip or Zippy are one such manufacturer.

[Hidden in reply to Neonkittie17]

That sounds interesting. I guess there are all sorts of designs cropping up, depending on your specific needs.

[AgedCrone in reply to Neonkittie17]

Oh I don’t think so NK..I managed to fracture two vertebrae tripping over...just imagine what I could fracture lurching off a scooter,🛴🛴

Pelvis , hip, skull? Ouch...think I will stick to my little car🚗

[Hidden in reply to AgedCrone]

Obviously a born survivor!

I take it that sky diving is not an option on your radar either.

x

[AgedCrone in reply to Hidden]

Not this week! Might just chance a walk to the corner shop when it is empty !

Right now ...armed with a wooden spoon...I am fighting to get fitted covers I have laundered back on to the sofa cushions.

There is a deep blue haze in the room....& I am not a happy bunny! 🥵

[Neonkittie17]

I was in Paris with my husband last May for four days and we had to leap out of the way many times away from the trottinette electriques which were an absolute nightmare tbh. People were in danger all the time. The week after we came home from Paris we heard from my friend who works in central Paris (or did until lockdown) that they were then banned by the Mayoress. Not sure what the state of play is there at the mo. Will ask her. She hasn’t been into central Paris for about 6 weeks as she lives in Viry Chatillon about 10 miles south. She will now what’s going on though.

Also in Paris we saw loads of trottinettes abandoned and thrown in the road or left on the pavements. It might be good for disabled people to use them who would have difficulty walking any distance but there is so much scope for abuse and from what we could see in Paris it was chaotic trying to walk on the pavement. Also how can someone who is blind cope with electric scooters and no warning they are coming? To me it’s dangerous to let them use the same pavements unless they are limited to a scooter lane. From my experience and what I saw for those four days ... I don’t like walking on a pavement with the fear of fast moving scooters mowing me down from behind.

Here’s an extract from The Guardian dated March 2020.

Electric scooters will be allowed on public roads for the first time under a Department for Transport proposal which will consult on the rules required to allow the new technology to operate safely, the government has announced.

The legalisation of e-scooters is just one proposal in a wider plan to enable a “transport revolution”, which also involves projects to trial medical deliveries to the Isle of Wight using autonomous drones, and a test of self-driving cars between Bristol and Bath.

But the scooters, which are already in widespread, if unlawful, use across the UK, will initially only be allowed in four “future transport zones”: Portsmouth and Southampton; the West of England Combined Authority (WECA); Derby and Nottingham; and the West Midlands.

[Hidden in reply to Neonkittie17]

Wow,

Thanks so much for all this information.

It does seem as though there will be many safety aspects to consider before the UK actually embrace them fully. The Paris experience sounds scary for pedestrians, even though it seemed to work well in Marseille.

Everything might be so different in 5 or 10 years time!

Cheers

L

[Neonkittie17 in reply to Hidden]

Let’s hope there may be a safe way to use them as they could be a greet help to people with walking difficulties. I think there will have to be good rules and regulations.

[AgedCrone in reply to Neonkittie17]

Do you honestly think someone with walking difficulties could manage a scooter? The ones I have seen look so fragile....if you have walking difficulties you usually have balance problems as well and they’ve only got two wheels!

[Neonkittie17 in reply to AgedCrone]

Hmmm ... So this is what I honestly think. I’ve seen them and experienced how frightening they are to pedestrians hurtling towards you or whizzing past from behind. I’m not in favour personally, but I can recognise that the electric scooters could be a way of some people getting out and about in a less built up area where they are safe to do so and use them close to their homes. In Paris they were/are a way of many people getting across a very busy city much faster than walking. The person who caused a collision right in front of us was an elderly lady speeding on hers. I’ll not say any more!

I have seen some of these new scooters advertised and read quite a lot about them as my husband is a transport expert and sends me articles relating to mobility issues and disability/ability. My french friend in Paris is always sending transport articles for us too. One English advert was called Zip or Zippy and had good practical features mentioned below.

It may be some disabled person’s only bit of freedom to travel by one of these electric scooters and so they don’t have to go far to benefit from being outdoors with some independence. There are some new electric scooters with wide enough space for both feet side by side and some have small perch saddles and a smallish pannier at the back. No one would want to try do a big shop or go with an overnight bag to visit someone travelling miles on one of these scooters. You’d wear a small, light, day sac across the body or on your back, I’m sure for short journeys.

I doubt anyone with disabilities would want to do a great amount of distance especially if you were suffering from balance and foot/ankle/leg issues. They are more suitable for some disabled people who still are able to stand for a couple of miles’ travel on one (and perch on it if they want to stop for a rest at a safe place. ) It’s their choice. Remember they can move quite fast so you’d not be standing there for such a long time on all journeys and if you had a perch seat you could stop in a safe place to rest a while. We see on here people who have recovered/in remission from many arthritis issues but still may be agile enough to use one of the scooters. To me, to add a seat and pannier is going towards having a mobility type scooter, but some people might be able to manage one of the new ones for short distance to give them independence and not have to get on a bus or wait for a taxi. I would imagine that just being independent and outdoors would be a boost for many.

They are not for me and my actual first hand experience proves that when I was in Paris, of being a (disabled) pedestrian amongst them, but if it helps some people with mobility issues and they are using them with care and being responsible, then it’s their choice. We shall see what happens with the U.K. trials.

[AgedCrone in reply to Neonkittie17]

Maybe something you sit on would possibly be useful for some disabled people with no balance problems, but I think the inexpensive scooters Pole-Dark was meaning would be beyond most people with a walking disability. The stopping & starting in traffic,.

To have to keep putting a foot down to jolt to a stop & being so low down they would be invisible in a lot of wing mirrors...,especially on lorries! Scary.

I did actually try one years ago in California belonging to a very young relative ( who was not allowed out of the garden on his) & they are fun on grass when there is nothing to hit ...but the thought of competing for space with cars on our roads would not be my first choice of transport! And surely they could not be allowed on pavements?

In LA they are used a lot on coast/beach paths& pedestrians take their life in their hands, as teenagers too young to drive blast along on them....with elbow & knee pads...but usually no head protection.

[Hidden in reply to AgedCrone]

So, this is getting very interesting - you've actually tried one! In California!!!

I'm so impressed.

I totally agree with you that there would be a need for a cycle/scooter lane - which there are lots of in Marseille, especially around the Corniche.

But these newer ones have disc breaks and 3 speed options, so they are improving.

Given all the safety aspects which everyone has raised on here, I don't think I'll be going ahead any time soon.

An electric bike is a much better option.

[AgedCrone in reply to Hidden]

I’m sure they are much more refined now...but I found braking to slow down I always put my foot down too early or too late!

But my antics gave the young owner much amusement....as I am the same age as his grandmother...who refused to have a go!

[AgedCrone in reply to Neonkittie17]

Sadly I imagine they will be made legal because the people who make the decisions want to be liked.... For some reason they get it into their heads that we will vote for them if they allow everything every nutter asks for!

When it all goes pear shaped ....as no doubt it would ....they will say “well you voted for it“!

I really hope it doesn’t happen....I don’t want the stress .....when I find one under my front wheel ......of explaining it wasn’t my fault!

[Neonkittie17 in reply to AgedCrone]

I’ll reply to your first message shortly ... for now, I don’t actually want them as they are too dangerous to pedestrians and I can’t see how they could monitor them and ensure safety to pedestrians. You know there are going to be youths racing on them and causing chaos. That was happening in Paris too. Actually the main collision I saw was from an elderly lady on a trottinette.

[AgedCrone in reply to Neonkittie17]

Yes I quite believe it,....many of my fellow female senior citizens launch off on electric buggies when they’re widowed...never having driven anything mechanical in their lives....and having not walked to the shops in years they buy a mobility scooter. I don’t think they need insurance do they?

I saw one the other day trying to perform a three point turn, tip off the kerb,& if an alert young cyclist hadn’t rescued her she could have been badly injured.

What concerns me is unless insurance is mandatory...car insurance would probably go up if the scooters are allowed on the roads.

Recently a friend’s car was hit on the backdoor when a pedal cyclist flew out of a side road and hit her. It couldn’t possibly have been her fault because she was almost past him before he hit her. But her insurance company wanted to say oh it’s knock for knock and take away her no claim bonus...probably because they knew a young cyclist would have no cover.

She wasn’t having that, and argued long and loud and in the end she won .....but the majority of people would just give in....as you say young tearaways would love the scooters... no age limit either if no insurance or licence needed!

[Hidden in reply to AgedCrone]

Just think what would happen if everyone was issued with one on retirement!!

Wacky races springs to mind.

[AgedCrone in reply to Hidden]

As long as I can be wrapped in my duvet...I’ll be there.,

[Neonkittie17 in reply to Hidden]

🤣😁

[Neonkittie17 in reply to AgedCrone]

The fact they are called trottinettes in France tells you they weren’t originally intended for the road, so I’m not sure how it will go given it’s an electric vehicle even if small power, and will need licensing as such if it gets passed to go on a road. Yes, insurance and all sorts of other issues have to be thought of. I know that they want to change the old transport act which still dates from around 1832 to get round them being used on the road, I believe but I’m sure these scooters are coming but not sure where they will be allowed to go legally (as they will be abused by idiots. I would bet money on it.) Thinking of you saying LA was overrun with youths on the electric scooters on the beach front ... Sadly I feel some nasty injuries will occur for those using them in built up areas if they are introduced in cities. We will watch and see what happens in the U.K. city trials.

[Hidden]

mobilityworld.co.uk/collect...

I have been looking into this for my parents and the above does a monthly rental system which I felt was a great way for them to try before they buy so they get to see what suits them.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Hi Deeb,

Thanks for responding.

The scooters I'm referring to are just "Electric scooters" and not the "Mobility scooters" - very subtle difference as the latter are widely used in the UK, especially where I live.

Here's a link to the ones I'm looking at:

myproscooter.com/best-elect...

I'm not sure how useful these would be for your parents, but they go much faster than the Mobility Scooters! But maybe you could see yourself hopping on one?

I really see them as an alternative to a push bike but I totally agree with everyone else about the lack of safety on our roads. It would need a complete shift in our travelling habits, away from cars or more cycle lanes, for them to be used safely, I think.

But some cities in the world are moving towards this eg Groningen in the Netherlands totally redesigned their town centre to ban most cars in favour of bikes, and they experienced massive benefits. I just find this extremely inspiring, especially now we are off the roads in lock down. I think a change towards cleaner air and a faster commute is what my kids would want. But it does need a massive mind shift!

x

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

I think if I remember correctly at the moment you are not insured on these scooters and legally not allowed yet in UK. Those that sell them will state ok but there is a legal loophole and Police have fines users in 2019 to now using them on roads

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

You are totally correct - the fines are £300 but that's insignificant when compared to the amount of damage you could do to yourself and others, and the potential NHS costs.

I think this is why the Dept of Transport are doing a review and certain pilot schemes.

L

[Neonkittie17 in reply to Hidden]

I posted an extract from where they will be trialled shortly this year or maybe not now due to the crisis but Nottingham and Derby are two of the first cities.

[Maggsie]

Well it looks like I might get to try one if they're coming to Derby. Watch this space!

[Hidden]

I might come and watch you!!

x

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

I have used electric bikes and this is great used them in scary London which was an eye opener but work does a bike scheme and been looking at this option too.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Yes, I've heard of the bike scheme and it's excellent.

So glad to hear you are considering an electric option - it has to be a viable alternative to car fumes. Now I want to have a go too, but not in London!

X

[AgedCrone]

But having RA .....is anybody seriously thinking of launching themselves off into traffic on what is basically a children’s toy?

The roads today, even in quiet spots are dangerous.....& getting busier every year.

At least with a push bike you get some exercise, but wobbling along on one of these scooters .....at speeds far faster than a bike....sounds like a death wish to me!

[Hidden in reply to AgedCrone]

I suppose it depends on someone’s level of RA but also where they live too

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

I live in a hilly area and am seriously considering getting an electric bike where I can pedal on the flat and use the electric to get me up the hill 😁

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

They are brilliant the bikes for me prefer them to scooters! I did a test on one recently and it was brilliant I used to cycle 20miles a day 3 times a week as I love cycling, so this would get me back on a bike for sure!

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

They would allow you to pace yourself more - but, lets face it, once you get out there on it, given your thirst to do stuff, there'd be no slowing you down!

Great idea though - especially in this weather.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

There you go RD cycle club in the making. Post our diaries of day rides 🤗

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Need to get the bike first but I have asked one of the reserve wardens who is a bike mad person if he can look at my bike which the brakes are locked due to not being used past 2 years. If he can get this bike going it will be fab to get back in the saddle again. No electirc on it but I will contain myself to small distances.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Down hill only for me 😂😂hubby with car at the bottom

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Got an image of you flying downill and boot open and you roll straight up the ramp into the car!!!!!

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

You know me too well 😂😂

[Neonkittie17 in reply to Hidden]

That’s exactly the kind of use I am talking about for people to benefit from near their homes and not in traffic. x

[Neonkittie17 in reply to Hidden]

My comment below re using the micro scooter near your home was meant to reply to you. 😀x

[Hidden in reply to Neonkittie17]

I understood 😁

[Neonkittie17 in reply to Hidden]

😘