Hope I'm not posted this twice, but I can't find original post. I have some questions:
[1] What is the amount of daily protein that one requires on a daily basis. My gfr is 26, creatinine is 1.2. Please don't use grams and kilograms as each time I try to figure it out, I get a different answer. My weight is 174. I lost about 9 lbs these past few months and continue to lose slowly because of diet.
[2] Does plant protein figure in the daily protein requirement? If so, does it carry the same weight as animal protein in figuring the daily protein need.
[3] Is there a web site that I can use to figure out how much protein is in the food that I'm eating.
Thanks for any information. Was at the kidney doctor yesterday and had a ton of questions for him, but i forgot to ask him about the protein. Best to all
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drmind
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These are all questions better answered by your kidney doctor. Out of curiosity, are you very young? It's somewhat unusual for a creatinine level of 1.2 to result in an eGFR so low. My creatinine is 1.5 and I only weigh 143, yet my creatinine-based eGFR is 49.
Thanks for your response. No. I'm not very young. I'm 88 and will be 89 in a few months. However, I feel as if I'm still in my sixties I just stopped workimg 3 years ago and I stay active at home and with friends. I wasnt aware that daily protein requirements were person specific as so many have recently discussed it on this forum in general terms. I have a really good relationship with my nephrologist so its.no problem asking him. However, I just came from a visit and had a lot of other questions and forgot to ask about protein intake.
Hypertension is presumed to have caused my kidney problens, but it is controlled now. No other major medical problems present. Again thanks...
Probably a little but not a lot. About three years ago, I did go to the gym a few times a week not necessarily to work out but just use the machines for awhile. i was also walking a few miles a few times a week and swimming. Now, I just trying to get back to a little walking and can do about 3/4 mile a day. Its sooo hard to get back when you stop at my age!
Trust me, I believe you. My mom says the same thing to me all the time when I try to get her to walk on the treadmill. Aging sucks, but it's better than the alternative unless you're in pain.
Lets suppose you're going on a low protein diet of 0.6gr/kg all dietary protein. That's one of the options advocated by the latest KDOQI guidelines. You're daily protein "budget" is then 1.69 oz of protein. Or 79grammes. You'd have to figure out how much meat/plant give you that: beef is about 27gr protein per 100gr (27% protein)
Let's suppose your going on a very low protein diet which is made up of both dietary and supplements. A typical formulation is 0.4gr/kg dietary and 0.2g/kg supplement. You'd adjust the above figures accordingly (2/3rds of 1.69oz dietary, and 1/3 of 1.69oz supplement equivalent protein)
It depends on a) your target protein amount and b) whether your running a supplemented regime.
Plant protein counts just as animal protein for the purposes of daily total. In order to calculate how much protein you're consuming you need to log everything you eat. There's protein in just about everything - often surprising amounts. There's a useful app called Cronometer which allows you to log easily enough and which calculates all the nutrients you take in - protein, calories, vitamins, minerals, etc. Its free but in order to obtain the useful trend data (e.g. how much protein have I consumed on average over the last 3 months) you need to take out a subscription, but it's cheap. God only knows how you'd calculate it out manually.
Plant protein can, I gather, provide you with all the essential amino acids contained in meat protein, but it takes your balancing different plant sources to achieve this. But I haven't addressed this yet. I gather Albutrix, the supplement I take, contains some of the amino acids that you find harder to obtain with plant. But consider: vegans don't die for wont of the right protein.
Re: weight loss. Are you getting the calories you need? Have you a target to hit and are you hitting it? One of the problems with a low protein diet is that because everything contains protein, you can run out of protein budget for the day before hitting calorie target for the day. This especially so with a very low protein diet. It'd doable but it takes effort and monitoring. Again, the app makes it more straightforward: by logging your intake you can see where you're lagging and make up for it as you through the day. I can see, for example, that I'm ahead on protein vs calories by lunchtime and concentrate on a lower protein intake dinner whilst gaining calories (e.g. by eating more low protein fruit). You get the hang with practice.
This has been very helpful. Thanks. I'm on no supplements and it was suggested by my kidney doctor to eat meat, fish, or eggs, etc. twice a week. About the weight loss: I'm on no particular program. I'm simply losing weight I believe for two reasons:[1] I was sick with strep throat and couldn't eat a lot for a few weeks and [2] because my daily diet is more focused on veggies that tend to be lower in calories. I do not lose weight easily. I have a solid build and have to starve to get to 150; I'm fine at 160-165 lbs. I'm really not obese even now. I gained the extra weight during my last years at work when things got very busy and harried and ate on the run and didn't exercise. Its very hard getting back to walking everyday, but I'm trying.
I wish I could find a renal dietitian that is not only vegan. Talked with two and bought a meal plan from another. The meal plan was vegan and was too much of a transition for me to make since I always was a "meat and potato" person. After many confusing months of diet confusion, I'm settling into a vegetarian type diet. I can actually live without most meat, but I do enjoy an occasional fish, eggs, or low sodium cheese and can live with this.
Again, thanks. I'm going to start using the Cronometer one of these days to see what I'm doing. Best to you....
You might well be fine with small amounts of meat/dairy - I've booked pretty good results even though having the occasional egg omelette and milk in my coffee. The key issue, according to the science (that informs the KDOQI 2020 guidelines) is amount of protein. The argument for plant vs meat is secondary, if not unimportant.
What you could do, if getting going on the app is an obstacle, is to PM me what you eat for 3 typical days and I'll run it through cronometer for you. That'll give you an idea of both protein and calories (we can figure out how many cals you should be getting on board).
You'd just have to log what kind of food and what weight if each item. It has to be accurate: coffee x quantity, full fat milk in coffee x quantity etc. All food, drink (except water), alcohol.
Hi drmind,So protein intake is really something that should be determined by a dietician. But to answer simply some of your questions. A protein intake of about 50 to 70 g is a common recommendation for late stage CKD. Some recommend even lower. I am below 30 g daily but I have a lower GFR than you. This is why a dietician can look at your lifestyle, medications and your specific needs.
An egg is about 3.6 g . 1 oz of meat is about 7 g and usually people eat about 4-6 ounces so you can see that adds up quickly. Plant based protein is protein and should be counted exactly the same way. Oatmeal has about 5 grams of protein in it and is a good source of other nutrients. The difference and why plant based is pushed for CKD is that the type of protein is easily processed by the kidney whereas meat protein is very difficult to process for the kidney and caused issues.
A good recommendation for you, if your phosphorous is ok, is nut butters. Good protein, great fat and will help with your weight issue. Put some on biscuits or crackers or if diabetic, apples or celery. Add olive oil to veggies for flavor and calories. If you like avocado, that is a good fat and low protein and great for sandwiches, or snacks on bread as a spread.
Thanks for all this good information. Ive had trouble trying to find a renal dietitian, but I'm settling in a decent diet plan for myself that seems to be working for me now. I just want to be sure that I'm getting enough protein with what I'm doing. Was glad to learn about how plant protein is better handled by the kidneys than animal protein. I kind of figured as much. Now, I want to look into nut butters, but I'm sure sure what these are. Can you tell me what they are as it sounds as if I'd enjoy them on crackers. Right now I usually have low sodium Swiss cheese on low sodium crackers with fruit for lunch and would like to try a nut butter. Again thanks for much. Its really wonderful to have the support and care that you get from this forum.
Nut butters are simply nuts mushed into a spread. For example, peanut butter. I do not recommend peanut butter as it is highly processed if you buy a national brand. But there are all sorts of others like almond and cashew butters. Try to find ones that are nothing but the nut and no additives. Specialty shops often sell them. One that was very decadent was chocolate almond..... OMG sit me down with a spoon. So ...we do not buy that one anymore. MY husband got one that was peanut and pumpkin spice flavored that was delicious. (He is also diabetic and we have to limit nut butters as only a treat once in a while. But the endocrinologist recommended as a midday snack to keep his sugars stable.) We shop at a Amish shop were they smash the nuts in a special machine right on the premise. NO additives but costly. That's why it is a treat.
You should move country. Peanut butter with nothing else in it (bar for atomic level stainless Steel particles that come off the grinding head as it wears) wouldn't be hard to find in a supermarket. I hear you guys out sugar in your peanut bitter. Ugh.
But peanuts. Ain't they high protein and high PRAL? Not really the thing to be eating very much of, if at all.
0h, no. Now I have to worry about PRAL and stainless steel particles in my peanut butter? My current diet is complicated enough. Help! Just kidding. I'm looking at my jar of my peanut butter and it shows that a serving of 2 tbsp has 3 grams of sugar, 7 grams of protein, 90 mg of potassium, and 125 mg of sodium. It also claims to have no preservatives. Oh, well, back to the drawing board.
3gr sugar?? A tablespoon is 15gr. Two tablespoons is 30gr.
Peanut butter that's 10% sugar. Jesus, Mary and Joseph, no wonder the Yanks have the health problems they do!
And 7gr of protein. That 2 tablespoons would be 25% of my daily protein budget gone.
Whereas the amount of caloriesI'd get, at 200 kcal, would only about 9% of my requirement. You see the problem: blowing your protein budget before you rack up the calories. You have seek to avoid high protein (meat, nuts, grains) for that reason.
Buy natural nut butters, almond especial. The ingredients on the jar should have NOTHING but almonds listed. Anything else in the ingredients, put it back on the shelf. Natural and organic is best.
Drmind was looking for stuff to gain weight with. Nothing like the bang of 200 calories a tablespoon. And it is a snack, not a meal. Over here, across the pond, with us colonialist, peanut butter is a childhood stable. We are used to eating a whole sandwich made with the stuff WITH globs of grapes super sugary jelly on crappy white processed bread. I don't know why we have health issues.....
I am not looking for food to use to lose weight. Phew! I'm not eating peanut butter and jam sandwiches although now that you mention it, I may include it in my plan "once in awhile." Just kidding, but Bessetmommer is correct. My kids grew up on peanut butter and jam. I'm too old to have done that. Instead, I usually feasted on a veggie and meat soups made with all non-processed foods that my father usually cooked. I wish i had his recipes now.
I just wanted to see what "nut butters" I may use on a few crackers as a lunch idea instead of my usual low sodium Swiss cheese. My original posted questions were geared to try to find out if i was eating enough daily protein and if I needed to change things. Amen....talk to you all later.
I eat my organic almond butter with a spoon too. I'm sad there isn't a Whole Foods Market near me since I moved. They have a machine where you hold the container under the spout, push the button and fresh ground almond butter comes out!!!! Better than soft serve ice cream!!! It is a delicious and nutritious treat.
Plant protein is more easily assimilated by the body/kidneys so you can eat more of it than animal protein.
My renal dietician told me to get about 40 - 50 gr of protein, that would all be vegetable protein since I'm a vegetarian.
It would behoove you to sit down with a Renal Dietician and have them work out a specific meal plan for you depending on your lab work and other health problems.
I know what you mean about not feeling your age. I was 16 y/o when we had my granny over for dinner on her 65th Birthday. I asked her what being 65 felt like (naive kid question, I know), and she told me that she feels like she is still 25 on the inside and only knows she's older if she looks in the mirror. Now I totally understand what she means. I never forgot her remark. Darn mirrors LOL
There are plenty of lists of protein levels of foods.
Thanks again for the useful information about protein. I made a great split pea soup and also a 15 bean soup, but I have to be careful because too much purines can and will precipitate a gout attack. Right now I have gout under control.
About a renal dietitian : I consulted with three and even bought a monthly meal plan from one. None of this worked for me. All were syrictly vegan oriented and that's not what I want or need. I gave up trying to find another one when the next one was also vegan. I think I would best described my attitude now would be pesca-vegetarian. I'm slowly assembling meals that I like and are good for my labs. My nephrologist is aware and supports my idea to go slow and find meals I can live with. Hes been a blessing.
Take care. Stay in touch. And continue taking good care of yourself. My best to you.
A pesca-vegetarian is very CKD friendly. It's hard when you have other health issues like your gout. If you have high potassium and phosphorus levels you need to limit your legumes but you can still have some.
Sorry you had bad luck with the renal dieticians. The one I saw didn't try to put me on a vegan diet. In fact, she started off saying I can eat chicken and fish but should limit my red meat. Then I told her I'm a vegetarian so we shifted the diet info she gave me.
The Davita website can give you a lot of diet advice and menu plans. Have you checked them out? davita.com/diet-nutrition They have free downloadable cookbooks, food apps, and tons of diet advice for CKD. Calling it "diet" makes it seem negative and like you're being deprived. I prefer to call it nutritional advice : )
I enjoy your posts you have a great attitude, it's nice seeing you're trying new foods and working in tandem with a supportive Neph.
Only had one gout attack in my life and never want another! My potassium and phosphorus are within normal limits. In fact, all my labs are within normal limits except of course the GFR, creatinine, and bun but these are slowly moving in the right direction.
I, too, was so disappointed over not connecting with a dietitian. What seems to be the pattern now where I live is to sell monthly meal plans and some even provide shopping lists. And, one kept saying "I'll wean you off that and then I'll wean you off this" instead of focusing on food groups I like and am used to eating. Oh, well. I'm doing fine now and finding kidney friendly recipes for my situation. It's fun. You should have seen how delighted I was when I re-discovered split pea soup with toasted croutons. Who knows I may be doing a cookbook soon. Just joking.
Yes, Davita has good recipes and cookbooks. Best to you.
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