Confused about a book I recently read!

[artron9]

Just read a book by DR. Robert Carlson ",The kidney Disease Solution". I read it all this morning and i am confused because in the beginning he said to lower your consumption of water and also your intake of protein. Later, toward the end of the book, , he advocates the use of water and the consumption of protein? So now i am confused?

[Pepperthedog]

Hi artron9 - It is confusing, and I've had different advice over the years. It seems partly to depend on the stage of CKD/PKD: I remember my mum having to restrict her fluid intake in Stage 4 before she started dialysis, but that was back in the 1970s and advice does change as this complex condition becomes better understood. What does your consultant say?

I've managed to stay at 3b for many years despite a slow decline. Every year at the annual check the renal guy confirms that 8oz of water or tea x 8 a day (=2 litres) is about right. But the right diet, medication and exercise are also key to maintaining kidney function for as long as possible. And the cause of kidney problems can have a major effect on its course, e.g. by chance I got a less damaging variant of PKD than cousins who needed mid-life transplants.

Here's a recent HU thread that looks at a related issue: healthunlocked.com/nkf-ckd/...

[artron9 in reply to Pepperthedog]

Thank you Pepperthedog for your insights! I am listening to all opinions on the matter of"how much water?" thanks again!

[Bassetmommer NKF Ambassador in reply to artron9]

Water is tricky. For example, people with cardiac issues need less water. This is something you should discuss with your doctor who knows your history. Generally, between 34 to 64 mls is good. Water helps your working kidneys do better. Protein on the other hand is important. Too much is hard on the kidneys. I dropped down to 30 grams per day and stayed off dialysis for6 years. It depends on the stage you are at. Be careful. Anyone can write a book, does not mean they know what they are talking about.

[orangecity41 NKF Ambassador]

I have urological problems (prostate related) and unable to drink too large amounts of water /liquids.

[jodaer]

Check out the doctor, it looks as if he's in the business of writing books, not practicing medicine.

[artron9 in reply to jodaer]

Jodaer, Im going to go back and reread the book! i might br missing something but i doubt it! 🫣

[Darlenia]

All seniors need to be exceptionally mindful of hydration. Most do not get enough and it leads to a-fib, electrolyte imbalances, mental confusion, and more. Too little hydration can also damage kidneys. Most books are written for the younger populations. Now, if you're a senior and retaining fluid in your legs, have heart issues, prostate issues, and more - then different rules may go into place. As a senior, don't take the advice of anyone outside of your own team of doctors. See ncoa.org/article/10-reasons...

[artron9 in reply to Darlenia]

Darlenia thank you for you comments! Gotta get back yo my bookwriting!🤔

[Darlenia in reply to artron9]

Just a quick note...it makes a world of difference if you know the reason for your kidney situation. CKD is simply a generalized term - kidneys simply don't fail. There's a reason behind it. Is yours due to high blood pressure? diabetes? high blood pressure? old age decline - this slowly begins to happen starting in the 40s? autoimmune condition? genetic problem? acute injury? polycystic kidney disease? overuse of meds? Tackling the underlying condition is a great idea if you're looking to improve matters. We're also seniors and feel your concern. (My husband, a diabetic, actually has a transplant now.) Regarding your hydration question, we've both learned the hard way to watch that as well as nutrition. He wound up recently in the ER getting IV fluids. Whereas I passed some time ago from an electrolyte imbalance. We were both very surprised and stunned by the outcomes. We become more fragile as we age. Hang in there!

[ShyeLoverDoctor]

talk to a doctor who knows your unique medical history. Do not get advice from a book.

[artron9 in reply to ShyeLoverDoctor]

I hope to learn when I read but need to filter better!

[artron9 in reply to ShyeLoverDoctor]

Finding the right dr is not easy! Thank you for your response! artron9

[WildIris]

As for the protein, recent population studies of people with CKD have shown that getting enough is important for longevity in every age group and life style. Lee Hull, who also wrote a book about all he did diet and lifestyle-wise to stop kidney disease, even developed a protein based on magnesium rather than nitrogen, and sells it online. (it's quite pricey).

Protein from fatty beef is probably the worst for your kidneys. Chicken and fish are apparently okay. You don't even have to eat animal protein though. Beans and nuts combined with corn and other vegetables contain enough protein.

[artron9 in reply to WildIris]

Thanks for your respectful information! artron9

[FelineFandom146]

Hello! Read all you want but don't listen to everything in a book. Someone already said that. Run everything by your own Nephrologist first and seek their advice. Between you and them, they know your history and can advise you. I'm in Stage 5 and drink about 64oz of water a day, herbal teas, ice tea etc. mixed in until I'm told to cut down. My eGFR just rose by 3.5pts and my BUN and Creantine dropped by 1 whole pt each so I'm hopeful eating Vegan Whole Foods low fat, very low protein is helping me. We'll see next labs in three months. I just began Albutrix and following the program in (a CKD Patient) Lee Hull's book, Stopping Kidney Disease for three months to see whether it benefits me or not. Protein, especially animal protein is extremenly harmful to our kidneys due to the Renal Acid Load. There' no debate about that. And Americans eat way too meat and processed foods. Wishing you the best. Another book you might want to read is Learn the Facts About Kidney Disease written by a Nephrologist Steven Rosansky who also advises about his diet similiar to Lee Hull's diet. I've learned more valuable information from these two books than I did from every Nephrologist I ever saw. (25+ to date over the years in different states and countries.) Also look up the PRAL diet about acid loads. Stay safe. Remember there is no such thing as a stupid question for your doctor except the one you want to ask but don't. Sorry, that's the Professor I am.

[artron9 in reply to FelineFandom146]

thank you for your thoughtful follow-up! Artron9

[Marbella17 in reply to FelineFandom146]

Congrats on the improved labs and good luck on the program! I just started my dad on Albutrix as well and he’s also stage 5. How many of the pills are you taking per day? I’m waiting on them sending me the food guide as I don’t have any information on what are the allowable protein sources other than the ketoanalogues. I mentioned a lot of the vegan sources I’d typically give my dad to Lee and he said none of them can be had so I’m curious what is allowed. Hopefully you both can stay off dialysis for as long as possible and have much success! 🙏🏼

[FelineFandom146 in reply to Marbella17]

Hello again, if you get the smaller Stopping Kidney Disease by Lee Hull, it'll guide you to how to take Albutrix. It does go according to weight and how much diet protein you are taking in. For my weight and my 23g of limited protein, I take 5 pills daily spread out. The pills also contain phosphate binders so best taken with your meals. The Food Guide didn't have many recipes that appealed to me so I just come up with my own and also modify some I get from Dr. Dean Ornish heart healthy diets. I eat a Vegan diet. Whole Foods and no processed foods. No chips, cookies, cheeze doodles, etc. I don't eat any kind of animal protein at all. No meat, fish, butter, eggs etc. That is basically what is in the food guide. Hope this helps. Fingers crossed and plenty of wishing and prayer for everyone who is doing the right thing and trying to stay away from the inevitable. Fruits and vegetables are most of my diet with some bread and crackers-whole crackers. I'm also on a low fat diet so my diet is perhaps more restricted than most due to high lipids. As I said, I do a combination of Lee Hull's diet, Dr. Steven Rosansky,and Dr. Ornish heart diet, which seems to be working for me. Do remember that everyone is different and what may work for me may not work for you and vice versa. Stay safe.

[Marbella17 in reply to FelineFandom146]

It sounds like you’re well equipped with good information and motivation for this journey to better kidney health! I agree, it’s always best to expand our knowledge base through multiple sources and extract the information that applies most for our specific scenarios.

My dad needs to be at about 5 pills per day as well based on his weight and doing a low protein diet. He is also on a non-processed and primarily vegan diet, with the exception of occasional egg whites and fish (either one consumed about 1-2 times at most per week). The only downside of the super healthy eating is his calorie count is pretty low and he’s had a few episodes of infection this year which dropped his albumin to 2.9 so I’m trying to work on increasing that again however it’s hard given the protein limitations.

I’m sending lots of well wishes and prayers as well for the most miraculous healing and renewal possible! Stay strong, patient and safe!

[ShyeLoverDoctor]

I have never heard of fluild restriction at stage 4, but everyone is different. My doctor told me, Drink to thirst, there is nothing to be gained by drinking a lot of water, because I asked if drinking more could stop me from going to stage 5