I have been in therapy for my OCD for 8 or 9 years. That's a long time.
I have made so much progress in so many areas, but ruminating the one that gets me every. single. time.
Since I'm so weak to it , I did a bit of research on ruminating in relation to OCD and here's what I found:
~Rumination is actually a defining feature of OCD .
~It's often mistaken for an obsession because it's mental, but it's a compulsion in response to an intrusive thought.
~We ruminate to relieve the anxiety of our intrusive thoughts by trying to reason with or resolve them. We also ruminate as a form of reassurance seeking in response to our intrusive thoughts.
This is absolutely me. It's such a trap because I get so caught up in doing ERP for my physical compulsions that I forget about my mental compulsions. Next thing I know I'm wearing grooves in my mind trying to solve problems that are impossible to solve or seeking certainty when there is none to be had.
In my research I found that ERP and mindfulness based CBT help so I am definitely going to try those in the future.
Does this resonate for anyone else?
If anyone is interested in reading the article it's here:
This topic has been a big revelation to me in the last few months. It started after I heard Michael Greenberg on "The OCD Stories" podcast.
If you haven't heard of him, Greenberg is a therapist who has recovered from OCD himself. He does ERP but makes rumination the main focus of the treatment. He points out that many people, including many therapists, mistake rumination for intrusive thoughts. Since we all know we're not supposed to push away intrusive thoughts, many people end up ruminating constantly, thinking they're doing what they're supposed to do. In reality, the intrusive thought is only a small part of it. So you get the thought "Maybe I just contaminated myself" -- that's the intrusive thought that you can't and shouldn't try to push away. But everything after that ("Did I really contaminate myself?" "Let's review that scenario again to see if I contaminated myself" "Why would I be bothered if it wasn't true?" "What will happen if it is true?" etc etc etc) is active analysis that we do intentionally, and that only fuels the OCD. That is what we have to stop.
His point that really hit home for me is that everyone, whether or not they have OCD, gets intrusive thoughts, like "What if I am a bad person," "What I'm contaminated," "What if [whatever]." The difference is that non-OCD people recognize the thoughts as irrelevant mental detritus and they do not engage with them, while those of us with OCD go over and over and over them as if they're meaningful and we need to figure them out. All that analysis is what makes OCD, OCD.
I've done better with not ruminating lately after paying attention to how much I really was ruminating. I've come to agree that it is not some "extra thing" that can be addressed after the physical compulsions are under control; it's actually the force that drives the physical compulsions.
Greenberg has some articles about his ideas on his website (drmichaeljgreenberg.com/art.... He has some pretty strong opinions (for example, he hates ACT because he thinks it encourages engagement with intrusive thoughts), but even if you disagree with some of his ideas there should be something helpful for everyone there.
I've been working on a technique that helps me stop ruminating much of the time -- I'm happy to share if you're interested but I need to go eat lunch and I've already taken up a lot of space 🙂
PS - I've never heard "wearing grooves in my mind" before but that totally captures it!
Thank you so much!I have heard of Dr. Greenberg, but I haven't looked into any of his works yet so thank you! I'm going to look at this site and listen to this podcast episode as well.
I feel like with a lot of these different strategies and evidence based techniques there's a bit of disagreement among the experts, but like you said, there is enough to where you can add at least some of it to your toolbox. I definitely do not agree with everything in ACT either, but I do love a lot of it.
I agree that a lot of us , therapists included, miss rumination as a large feature of OCD and, just like you said, a sort of driving force behind a lot of suffering. My rumination tends toward the existential side so it doesn't drive a lot of my other themes, but it certainly does pile on the misery and I feel it leaves me in a sort of vulnerable place because while I'm spinning my wheels on it I'm wearing myself out and getting very sad and anxious.
I would absolutely love to know about your technique!
So glad you enjoyed my imagery ☺️
I can't remember when I came up with that one, but I'm full of those weird little quips. I actually really love writing and often write poetry and short essays about my OCD and other diagnoses.
If you're interested maybe I'll post some at some point.
Sorry for the late reply -- I had a really busy few days.
I'm sure a lot of us would be happy to read your writing. It seems that a high percentage of people with OCD are creative, maybe because our brains are so good at noticing everything and making connections that many people miss. The same thought process that scares us into believing that a curtain touching an alarm clock could burn the house down also gives us some clever and original ideas from time to time!
Anyhow, here's the technique I've been using to minimize ruminating. I don't remember if I came up with it or read it somewhere, but it helps a good bit of the time. I noticed that my rumination episodes usually followed a pattern of getting triggered, then trying to determine if the trigger was a real problem I needed to address, then getting to a point where I was comfortable that it probably wasn't, and then repeating the whole process over and over to get reassurance whenever I was reminded of the trigger. The biggest problem is the "over and over" part, which can keep popping up for hours or days because I become afraid that I didn't really think about the issue enough, or I worry that maybe I got distracted and never came to a conclusion, or I just want reassurance again.
Now, as soon as I decide the trigger doesn't need addressing, I look for some neutral object and fix an image of it in my mind. When I later get reminded of the trigger, I remember the neutral object and immediately stop engaging with the trigger. The neutral object serves as a substitute for the long process of ruminating through the whole scenario again. It gives me reassurance -- not that everything will be okay (which of course is what the OCD craves), but that I have already addressed the issue, made a decision, and moved on.
So if for example I see a puddle of some weird-looking liquid in a parking lot, and I'm suddenly hit with thoughts about "What is it?," "Is it dangerous?," "What if I stepped in it?," "What if I spread it everywhere?", I will try to pause and remember how I would have responded before my contamination fears got bad. Back then I might not have even noticed the weird liquid, I might have thought "Yuck I hope I didn't step in it," or whatever, but I would not have panicked or investigated or cleaned. I remind myself that most people would walk through it without knowing or caring what it is (especially if they're under the age of 10...). I don't try to get 100% reassurance that everything is okay, but I get to a point where I'm reasonably convinced that most people would consider the trigger to be a non-issue. Then I'll find the neutral object -- say a nearby fire hydrant. I'll fix an image of it and then move on mentally.
Later when I am reminded of the encounter with the weird liquid, I'll immediately picture the fire hydrant instead of going down the proverbial rabbit hole of reviewing the whole episode again. At first I might have to do this every few minutes as thoughts of the liquid keep popping up, but after a while the thoughts get less and less frequent and often I quickly forget about the incident. By not engaging in all the mental reviewing, the episode seems to lose its power and thoughts of it disappear much faster than if I keep reviving it with the mental review process.
This doesn't work with every trigger but it does with a great many of them. For existential questions you may have to tell yourself, "I can't get the answer I want right now, but I've done the best I can for the moment, and it's time to move on because I've reached a point where I'm not making any new progress." I think it's important to realize that rumination can be like saying the same word over and over; after a while it loses any meaning and you aren't going to come up with any new insights.
Another trick that often works is to just tell myself that maybe my worst fears will come true, but it won't be because of whatever trigger I'm worrying about. So in the above example I might think "Well I and my whole family might get sick and die from some disease soon, but it won't be just because I stepped in that puddle." I suppose this is a form of reassurance, but it often snaps me back to reality. It helps me see the particular trigger like a non-OCD person would see it, without tempting me to seek 100% assurance that the fear could never happen.
If anybody else has any tricks to stop ruminating I would love to hear them as rumination has always been a big problem for me.
I am going to start trying to apply some of these tricks. I really love how you've listed them out and given concrete examples. This is so helpful.
I haven't had much of a moment to look at Dr. Greenberg's stuff because I've spent the past week in my feelings, but I'm going to look at that and I will follow up with you on how all of this is working for me.
I ruminate about 14 hours a day about a perceived mistake I made. It’s awful.
This was bad 8 years ago. Then I had years of peace. Now it’s back. Cannot figure out how to stop because it’s fueled by feelings of guilt and remorse.
I'm really sorry to know that you're struggling with so much rumination. It's definitely a tricky one to stop. I see a lot of great suggestions in this thread. Do you think it's possible for you to try to recognize when you're ruminating and sit with the uncertainty using one of these techniques?
Yes rumination is a problem for me too. Have been in treatment for OCD since 2009 but it was going on long before then. Also have intrusive mental pictures of peoples' faces a lot.
Yes, I sometimes get stuck in ruminations and don't realize how much time has passed. It's very frustrating to lose time that way. I hope you'll try some of the techniques we've mentioned in this thread.
"Do I have something better (more important) to do?"
Compulsion (by definition) is a state of being forced to do something. If ruminating thoughts are preventing you from living normal life, tell yourself:
I'm not a religious person by any means, but consider this Bible passage for a moment:
"Get behind me, Satan!"
(Matthew 16:23)
When we wake up, these thoughts are at the front of our minds. It might be a feeling of shame: "I'm a bad person." Or a sense of fear: "It's not safe outside." These thoughts are intrusive, and unwanted. They're dark, pessimistic, negative, and worrisome. They won't help you be the good and caring person you want to be today, so tell them to get behind you.
"Get behind me, Satan! You are standing in my way. You do not have in mind the things of God. Instead, you are thinking about human things.”
Between you and a normal (joyful) life is this dark anxiety. A shadow. Do not fear or run from the shadow. Step through it.
Bible passages and metaphors! Haha. I find them helpful.
Hi Rosie! You're always welcome to message me. I tried to respond privately, but was unable to do so. I've contacted technical support about it.
I'll try to help in anyway I can, however, I'm not the most qualified person to be giving advice. There are members on the OCD Community who have decades of experience with: intrusive thoughts, therapy, and prescription medicine. OCD began challenging my life about five years ago. I'm not diagnosed, and I've never received therapy. I do ruminate though, so at the very least: I can relate to your struggle. I ruminate about things that happened years ago, months ago, weeks ago, days ago, and hours ago. But why do we ruminate? It doesn't accomplish anything. Often, the rumination is about something trivial and without consequence.
"I made this (x) decision, and this (y) could have happened."
We judge ourselves by the "could have", which only exists in our imagination. Given enough time and opportunity, your imagination can even distort (or exaggerate) memories of a past event. You'll experience growing uncertainty, accuse yourself of things that never happened, and feel paralyzingly shame.
Does this sound healthy?
Whatever thought keeps popping into your head, stay in reality and face facts.
1. Accept the mistake. "I did that."
2. Acknowledge your guilt. "I feel bad."
3. Learn a lesson. "I won't (intentionally) do that again."
4. Show self-compassion. "Mistakes happen, nobody is perfect."
5. Trust yourself. "I am a moral person, committed to doing my best (better)."
It's normal to make mistakes (of all shapes and sizes). Life, after all, is full of risks and dangers. It's abnormal to obsess over these mistakes, and lead a compulsive lifestyle. Some people living with OCD identify as "sufferers"; not because they're suffering from a mistake they made, but because they're suffering from an inability to move on.
A bird flew into my window earlier this morning. Ouch! It was dazed and startled for a short while, but promptly flew away to resume being a bird. Hitting the window was a mistake, but it was also a very bird-like thing to do. If the bird had obsessed about its mistake, it may have never flown away at all. It may have sat on my lawn all day, ruminating, until a cat decided to do cat-like things.
It takes strength to fly away. OCD is a crippling disorder, a state of confusion, and a predator feeding on our time, self-esteem, and quality of life.
You made a mistake. Years ago! It was a very human-like thing to do. What's done is done. Pick yourself up, and shake yourself off. It's time to fly away, before cat-like things find you sitting on the front lawn.
Haha! I hope this helps.
If you don't mind my asking: how long have you been vegan? It's been about twelve years for me. It was a moral based decision.
Before learning about OCD, I didn't know how to explain my intrusive thoughts. What was happening to me? I suspected everything from brain cancer to sleep deprivation. I also suspected my vegan diet, possible deficiencies, and malnutrition. The OCD Community doesn't seem to concentrate on what causes the disorder. It concentrates on how to treat it.
Very admirable! And very nice to meet you. All considered, my advice is to practice self compassion.
When ruminating pushes you toward depression, look at the situation from a third person point of view. Someone is unwell, confused, and in need of help. You know what to do.
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needing ocd feedback - please
Anybody else with aggressive intrusive thoughts?
Numbers!! Anyone else have issues with numbers?
SOMEONE HELP please reply i am SO SCARED ANYONE PLEASE
