Incest OCD and Scrupulosity OCD

[MissBowLady]

I have another OCD bothering me.

So in Minecraft, a way a lot of people get a meat source of food is they find two animals and breed them, and then they breed the kid with the other cow and etc. but that’s like inbreeding so when I realized this (like I think when I got back into Minecraft survival a couple of months to a year ago) the next time I played Minecraft I would just use the same two cows or animals and kill the kid for food, even if I didn’t get meat as fast as others. However my OCD is triggering me because the game allows you to inbreed and cause incest to basically happen, and when my online friends play Minecraft almost all of them do this technique. Sometimes they joke about inbreeding! But because of the concept of incest and inbreeding it’s freaking me out. They even make jokes of inbreeding when they do it sometimes while in the voice chat. I remember this triggered me a year or two ago when I was eating some food a friend in Minecraft gave me and my ocd reminded me of the inbreeding they probably did and i felt guilty for either eating the food or still eating it even after I had the thought. I don’t know. I think I threw out the rest of the food. I hope so. Otherwise *I think I’m a bad person!*

To continue, now my OCD is attacking Minecraft because it doesn’t punish the player when they do this and I remember some YouTuber say when they mentioned this “it’s kind of reinforced“ but I don’t remember the game itself saying that. And my OCD is trying to make me think my friends support inbreeding/incest. I know they don’t and I guess the reason they are okay doing it in the game is because it doesn’t hurt anyone. BUT ITS STILL WEIRD AND GROSS. I don’t like it. I don’t care if it’s not hurting anyone I still don’t like it and I wish they thought the same. I wonder if they even think of it in the terms I do. Like, that they are basically making animals commit incest and inbreeding. They probably think:

“Oh haha I’m making them inbreed but whatever I’m getting food,” and not

“I’m making them commit this and it’s basically incest. The concept itself can occur in real life and is actually very gross, and now that I’ve seen this or acknowledged this because of it being pointed out, I can never look at it the same way again and want to stop.”

I don’t know how they are okay with it. Or maybe it’s the way I just said? But now ocd is making me think playing Minecraft or others playing Minecraft that way are supporting incest.

My mom told me that the creators didn’t have this in their mind and that when they were making the game they probably realized this but laughed it off because they would never support incest in real life. She told me that because they are secure in their moral convictions that the creators and players are able to move on and play them game, even if they do it that way. She says right now I’m caught up in making sure nothing I have anything to do with is pro incest. She says Minecraft isn’t about inbreeding or whatever and is about more than that, and in the animals alone is more about making more animals for meat.

But she said she isn’t supporting inbreeding in real life.

Still it’s just that, incest and inbreeding are such gross concepts and you think it wouldn’t be in my life so much. But because of OCD it is making me hyper aware of stuff and it makes me feel it’s less about OCD and that there is something wrong with the world

[MothFir]

I think it would help to sit down and discuss the topic of incest with someone you trust in order to sort out what you really believe to be incest and what you don't. Do this when you are not being triggered by something and you can think rationally and not just in response to OCD-generated feelings. Come up with a realistic position of what is truly moral based on what other reasonable, moral people believe. You don't have to (and can't) feel 100% certain that your position is correct, and you can't spend all your thought life trying to sort out the gray areas. But I think you need a general baseline so that when you are triggered you can quickly decide whether your moral concerns are justified or whether they are likely just a sham generated by OCD to drag you into the rabbit hole of guilt and uncertainty.

It might help you get perspective by thinking of all the ways OCD could complicate some other moral issue that your own OCD hasn't latched onto. Maybe murder, for example. Hopefully we all agree that killing people for no reason is wrong. Some people would say it's okay to kill in self-defense; others would say it's wrong even then. Some people would say that killing animals for food is wrong; others would say it's okay to kill animals for food, but maybe only if it's done humanely. So far these are all arguable, non-OCD positions, and everyone has to figure out where they stand. But OCD can easily take things to extremes. If you 'kill' virtual humans in a video game, are you a murderer? What if the virtual things you 'kill' are silly-looking monsters but act sentient like humans -- is there really a difference? What if you decide to become a non-violent vegan who doesn't play any video games? You still eat plants, and even organic plant crops are treated with materials that kill insect pests -- so by purchasing that food you are indirectly supporting killing. If you travel in a car, bus, or train, insects and mammals are inevitably going to be killed on the windshield and under the wheels. If you somehow figure out how to get through life without killing any other animal, you've still got bacteria to worry about. They are organisms too, and we kill them all the time to stay healthy.

The point is that when your OCD hands you a hard-line, legalistic rule -- INCEST IS WRONG!! -- you can subject yourself to endless mental torture over what constitutes "incest." If you don't sort this out rationally, you become a puppet to the feelings of guilt and shame generated by your OCD during each new trigger -- and the feelings are totally convincing, even when they are completely far-fetched. I remember your earlier post when you were concerned about drinking from the water bottle that may have brushed against your mom's hips, and (at the risk of providing reassurance), I'll say that that was clearly OCD talking. Most moral, non-OCD people would have difficulty even understanding how drinking from that bottle could be considered incest.

Please don't think I'm making fun of you or being condescending or anything -- I am not triggered by incest but my OCD tries to get me to ruminate about equally far-fetched scenarios! I've taken the bait many, many times. I know exactly why you get upset by these triggers. They feel genuine, compelling, and icky. But at some point you've got to establish and accept that some (most?) of your feelings are nothing more than a result of OCD. Only then can you have the faith and determination to ignore them and go on living life by a moral code that makes sense and stems from your own well-considered beliefs, and not from OCD just pushing your buttons about everything.

[MissBowLady in reply to MothFir]

I just, CAN’T think in moral or Gray terms for OCD. It’s just hard for me. Everyone keeps saying “Gray” and that I shouldn’t torture myself with guilt. But I can’t. I don’t understand what those people mean or how to do that with my OCD.

[MothFir in reply to MissBowLady]

"I just, CAN’T think in moral or Gray terms for OCD."

That's why I think it's especially important to get guidance from someone you trust and then make decisions according to it. If that's your mom, you need to accept that she has a clearer understanding of this issue because her thinking is not influenced by OCD. Asking if something is okay can be compulsive reassurance-seeking if you ask the same basic question over and over, but getting a little guidance in the beginning can help you determine what is a real concern and what is OCD. The OCD concerns should be ignored as much as you can -- don't change your behavior because of them, don't try to figure them out, and don't argue endless loops in your head with them. Trust the decision that they are irrelevant and move on.

I know this is very hard. You might check out a couple of recent episodes of "The OCD Stories" podcast that featured Michael Greenberg. He is a therapist who has recovered from "pure OCD" and has developed an approach that focuses on eliminating rumination. He has a few unorthodox ideas, but a lot of what he said has really resonated with me. Essentially he believes that rumination is the fundamental problem with OCD, and that people often confuse intrusive thoughts with rumination. The difference is critical, because although you should not try to resist the initial intrusive thoughts, you should try not to ruminate. Once you make an initial decision that your intrusive thought is just OCD, you should stop interacting with it immediately. It may continue to pop into your head, but you should resist OCD's invitation to debate it. This idea has helped me realize how much anxiety and rumination I have control over, IF I work at it and am not fooled into thinking that it's an intrusive thought that I just have to "sit with" until I habituate to it.

Here's the first episode if you want to listen to it (theocdstories.com/episode/d....

If my suggestions don't help, don't give up! You can find a therapy that helps you get peace from your OCD. Keep trying until you find one. Also -- if you're not on medication, you should consider it. The right anti-obsessive medication can make the OCD quieter and easier for you to confront with therapy.

[MissBowLady in reply to MothFir]

But things still get ruined I feel when I try that. I can keep trying to enjoy the thing I like and there is a 50% chance the initial OCD thought I had goes away or keeps repeating and making my mind think about it again and again and again. I can’t really control that part of my brain that doesn’t think about it. I try thinking about stuff but my brain is able to multitask and I hate thinking about it. I don’t want to think about it but my brain and body forces me too and I suffer. I can’t think in Gray or moral terms for incest either.

Maybe I’ll look at the link you sent if I can copy and paste it.

[MothFir in reply to MissBowLady]

Dr. Greenberg also has a website that might be helpful. On it there are articles summarizing his approach: drmichaeljgreenberg.com/

Here's one other technique that often helps me stop ruminating. When I get an intrusive thought, I try to determine as quickly as possible whether it represents a real concern or whether it's just more OCD nonsense. Assuming it's OCD, I then look at some object (any neutral object works - a piece of trash, a road sign, a pencil, whatever), fix that in my mind, and use that as a firm reminder that the concern has been addressed and there's no more need to think about it. When the intrusive thought comes back, I think of the neutral object and how it represents that the issue has been dealt with. It reminds me that there is no need to reassure myself by going through the whole argument with OCD again, and it helps me move on.

Obviously I don't know what exactly was going through your head with the water bottle story you mentioned earlier, but I'll use it as an example based on the way my OCD works. So you're getting out of the car and you notice the water bottle touching your mom. You get the thought, "Maybe it would be incest if I drank out of that thing now." You can't (and shouldn't try to) stop that thought; it just shows up. Everybody gets weird thoughts. But you have OCD, and you feel really uncomfortable about it, so you ask your mom if she would drink from the bottle. She assures you that it's not incest and she would drink from it. You have already decided that you trust your mom, so you now firmly decide that the whole issue is a result of OCD and needs no further consideration. To cement that in your mind, you look at something, let's say a candy wrapper that some inconsiderate person has thrown on the ground. Now "candy wrapper" is your reminder that the water bottle issue is closed and no longer open to discussion.

Of course that's not the end of it for your OCD. A few seconds after your mom reassures you, you notice someone else drinking water. You get the intrusive thought, "Hey, there's somebody else drinking water, except theirs is not contaminated by incest LIKE MINE IS!" Your first reaction will probably be to reassure yourself by asking your mom again, or going over the situation in your mind all over again, testing this way and that to see whether you really believe drinking from the bottle is okay. This is a trap and a compulsion -- do not fall into it! Instead, remember the candy wrapper and what it represents: the case is closed, you've already thought about it all you need to, and you've resolved the issue as much as it needs to be resolved. Don't engage with it again.

But OCD is still not done, and a few seconds later you see a couple holding hands. You get the intrusive thought, "I wonder if that's a brother and sister, and they're committing incest, JUST LIKE I AM WITH THIS WATER BOTTLE!" Again, resist the urge to enter a debate. Picture the candy wrapper, remember the topic is closed, and move on.

At first you can expect the OCD to keep hounding you. You'll see a donation box that says "Invest in your park!" and you'll read it as "Incest in your park!" Or maybe you'll just feel a little queasy drinking the water, or whatever. But if you can decisively avoid ruminating any further on the issue, it should lose its power in time. You may still be anxious and the outing may feel somewhat ruined, but hopefully it will be a lot better than it would have been if you had ruminated through the whole topic over and over and over again. With practice, it will be easier to avoid ruminating, and the long-term goal is to be able to dismiss the weird thoughts immediately so that you hardly notice them.

Note that this is not "thought suppression," because you are not actively trying to avoid those initial intrusive thoughts about incest. You are just working to not engage with them, because engaging with them is a compulsion that you should resist.

I hope some of this made sense and is maybe even helpful. Good luck and don't give up.

[MissBowLady in reply to MothFir]

Thank you.