As everyone knows there have been a lot of violent acts many of which have been caused by suppressed anger. Instrusive thoughts are thoughts that are unwelcome in our minds. We don't want them there yet it can be impossible to push them out. I'm willing to bet that many people with unhealthy relationships and other problems start off angry and this anger could turn into intrusive thoughts about hurting others. Not all of these people are bad in my opinion because they don't choose to have these impulsive desires. The sad part is when they act on them.
I believe that many idividuals are good people who do bad. These individuals tend to not get help because they don't realize that options are available for such issues. They think opening up would mean jail or a mental institution. As a result, they don't say anything and then the boiling anger causes them to blow up like a volcano.
I've noticed that many mental health organizations offer help for this kind of stuff but don't openly advertise it. They mostly talk about depression, anxiety, self-harm and other things. I think communities such as this should be more welcoming to people with instrusive homicidal ideation. That way they'll feel more comfortable to reach out for help and in turn decrease the chances of innocent lives being lost.
I know this post might receive some backlash, but please try to understand what I'm saying. I mean I agree that any form of harm is never okay. Maybe there are other ways to address this issue, but I'm just offering a suggestion.
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Iluvhorses
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I think you've just added a new diagnosis to the already bloated psychiatric nomenclature with your 'intrusive homicidal ideation'. Or maybe it is another legal redress to criminal law. Racisim is at the heart of your comments, I suppose yet I find it very difficult to imagine a scenario whereby anyone finding themselves unfortunate enough to be in a violent and destructive relationship, would then extrapolate from that a desire to harm others. Yet having said that, everyone is entitled to their own opinions particularly within a framework of a democracy. Maybe we should all turn our metaphorical guns onto religion. More wars, more violence and more isolationism can be attributed to religion than any other presciencent circumstance. But then I suspect that their God would lend immunity to the bigotry of those individuals who find it necessary to murder so long as it is done in His name and favour. Where was God when Auschwitz, Belsen, Dachau, Treblinka were conceived and acted on?
I respect your opinions. I personally think that if a person is having trouble at home they could become angry enough to cause harm. In other words they would have homicidal ideation. I wasn't thinking about races if that's how you feel.
This is a very difficult subject which you have had the confidence if you like to discuss. It is true that we can deal on here with people wanting to harm themselves but when it comes to people having thoughts of harming others that is frightening territory. There are people who are comfortable and able to work with this kind of problem and i agree that if people are mentally ill that does not make them a bad person and yes that sometimes internal anger can unfortunately lead to anger to others. It is a very tricky topic; one in which I don't feel confident myself. i absolutely hate the idea of harm coming to people or people thinking these things but this does not mean that these thoughts don't exist in disrodered individuals. You are right ;there needs to be a place to go where people don't feel ashamed to admit these inner thoughts as in that way they may be prevented from acting on them . It takes a special kind of person to be able to deal with this. Personally I have a limit and I cannot cope with people wanting to hurt others but I do understand your post and what you are saying.
Gemma
PS Is there any reason which prompted you to write this right now?
You may feel differently, but I personally view suicidal and homicidal ideation on the same level because innocent lives are being lost resulting in grief. Please think about the fact that a person who is angry at someone else might feel homicidal ideation towards the person they are angry at.
Well okay. I've had issues like this before and was terrified of telling someone for fear of ending up in jail or a mental institution. I didn't realize help was available for such issues. I did end up getting treatment, but admitting my feelings was unbelievably scary. My friend was the one who told authorities because I couldn't do it myself. I also know other people who deal with this and they're ashamed of talking about it. I just think society needs to make it easier for these people to admit their thoughts. I know from experience.
I just remember how hard it was to open up and it's still hard for me to talk about it. I think that if other people facing similar issues felt safe to open up without being judged then this world would be a safer place.
Fair point. I agree with Gemma, in that I feel like I personally don't feel equipped to help but potentially those who have concerns can reach out to you.
I have to be careful when using this forum because I need to make sure that I don't make myself ill worrying about others. I feel better knowing I can potentially be a source of comfort and take solace in knowing that others will give me comfort. Perhaps people will reach out to you, just make sure your own health isn't impacted.
Thank you. Whenever people like this reach out to me I always make sure authority figures know about it. The last thing I want is for something terrible to happen. I wouldn't want the blame to be on me for not telling anyone. People have come to me with issues like this before.
Generally Mental Health Staff from the lower ranks to the highest will never condone any form of murder whatever the condition of the Patient. Generally some form of negative response and would show that in spades. Yes they would treat, they would expect however a stiff result in court, with treatment.
Yes we would all need to agree with that. The problem arises when some form of attention is demanded and that fulfills the risks involved. We are then back with no condolence or acceptance if something bad has been brought about before treatment. Some form of confinement will be arranged to a place of safety etc. A section may be required.
If someone is in danger from the Patient and it is picked up they will be sectioned as a matter of urgency. Possibly if law was broken, The Courts will need medical and clinical advice
What do you mean by "matter of urgency." Are you saying they would be subject to help or do you think they will be put on some form of dangerous person list. I'm just trying to understand what your trying to say. No rudeness intended.
Oh ok. I've never heard of sections before. I only know about people being in crisis which is a word that can be used for people who are a danger to themselves or others.
A bit too deep. I have had suicidal thoughts, but communities cannot deal with it. Emergency is needed. Community deals with the thoughts of people feeling that bad, that they need to take their life, they cannot be held with the responsibility of someone actually doing it, if they are putting things in place for people, who actually accept help to stop themselves harming themselves in the first place. They are not in the same place as we are, but are willing to put themselves into a position that says, ask for help?
I just think that measures should be taken so that people with homicidal ideation realize that there is help available for them and that they don't need to be ashamed of speaking up.
I have never been ashamed of speaking up. I was 17 when sectioned into hospital with Anorexia as I was endangering my life and worrying my friends and family. This happened again when I was 19. I am now 47 and been through hell the last 2 years. I never felt there were not services out there to listen to me and have actively sought them out and been supported. You have to want to get better, that is when it starts.
That's great, but it might be different for some people with homicidal ideation. Some people might have these thoughts, but not want them. They might be afraid to reach out for help because of a combination between dear of being judged and also not knowing their are resources available to them. I do agree that such people have to want to get better. The same goes for people with all mental illnesses.
If you felt like you could harm someone, wouldn't you seek help. That would be the worse feeling ever. If you took a life or disabled it? You would have to live with it forever and no one would let you forget it, but putting it right despite the hurt... who knows what you could achieve?
Hey there, I'm glad you've decided to open up. I really think you should tell your therapist because they're there to help. He or she probably won't do anything unless you're at risk of actually carrying out your thoughts. You won't be in any kind of trouble since you haven't acted in your ideation. Please feel free to pm me anytime.
What you are asking is very hypothetical. If you murder someone there is a sanction.
Mental Health will be checked as would be expected. You do wrong you do the time.
Many people murder in a very calculated fashion, if that is the case many of these people will not be mentally ill, however they may try and say they are.
Homicidal ideation is about harm. You need to seek help. Hurting is depression, but you could still lose control, or more likely to take your own life rather than anyone elses.
Well, I take medication and receiving therapy for dealing with low confidence and overwhelming doom. lol .x I would still rather take my life than someone elses. You are dealing with it hypothetically, which I don't get in therapy. I either feel good or I don't. If anyone can explain hypothetical, I welcome any explanations? How does it help?
Hypothetical means based on guesses and no proof. All of my treatment like medication has proven to be effective. But of course you have to want to get better so I analyzed myself and realized my homicidal ideation was stemming from deep rooted anger. I have been sexually and emotionally abused and needed to release my emotions constructively. Have you ever had thoughts pop into your mind even though you didn't want them there? That's the best way I can describe my experiences.
I may be wrong but I don't believe anger and a desire to harm others has much to do with depression or anxiety. Guilt,shame and withdrwal are typical emotions associated with depression and anxiety but in my experience not anger and a desire to harm others.
Most people in my experience who regularly have ideas about harming others can be very seriously ill in the case of psychopaths, or have violent tempers or are sadistic and usually in all these cases they are very unlikely to want to publicise their emotions. Sadists and psychopaths usually go to extraordinary lengths to hide their true natures as they are usually well aware of the antisocial and unacceptable nature of their behaviour.
People with violent tempers are often more forthcoming about their problem and may seek help with anger management.Usually people in all three categories eventually attract the attention of law enforcment although unfortunately where the anger occurs within the household this can often escape detection for a considerable time, usually with women or children suffering although women can less often be the culprits.
I have never ever seen in any of the indexes and symptoms of depression anger mentioned. I suppose in theory depression could lead to desperation but even then the deire to harm is usually turned inwards on oneself.
I see what you're saying, but I know that depression and anxiety can come from negative events in a person's life and I believe that these events can lead to anger. If these events are caused by people then the victim might be angry at whoever wronged them.
Are you at the point where you might carry out your thoughts and hurt your advisor? If not then I don't think your therapist will take any legal action like sectioning. But I still think it's important that you tell him because he can only help you if you lay everything out on the table. If you're not a danger to yourself or anyone else meaning if your thoughts are just thoughts then I'm pretty sure you're still entitled to confidentiality.
But hopefully if you tell your counsellor then the two of you can come up with ways to handle your adviser and your thoughts won't turn into actions. But are you at the point where your thoughts could turn into actions?
I look back at an incident a couple of years ago in which I lost my temper badly at someone who was harassing me while I was driving. I absolutely lost it at the guy and abused him, hit his van etc and threatened him. I was doing a lousy poorly paid job which was well beneath me to do, all I wanted to do was keep my head down and get on with it but this idiot kept beeping at me at a yellow light to move. So I got out of my car and gave it to him. I know I was very ill at the time but basically he didn't deserve that kind of reaction although he was an idiot.
Now if I think of all these road rage videos you see, you mostly think that the 'ragers' are idiots and look very stupid. No doubt some people looking on thought little of me. Obviously no-one knows what that person is dealing with and this one event, as you say, caused the 'volcano' reaction. I'd already signed up to anger management therapy with MIND so I knew I had a problem which helped a lot. But I know now that my anger was due to what a person had done to me and the emotional abuse I'd suffered. If I'm going to be a bit brutal, I have to admit that I let that happen. So who am I angry with, really. I'm angry at myself for being a mug and for having such low self-esteem that I let a bad relationship happen and left myself in this scenario. That isn't the fault of the driver.
I don't want to be an angry person that lets off easily, that's not my nature and you've got to look at how people with no understanding of depression etc view it. I don't think people respect an angry, violent person.
I see where these people are coming from. I use to judge suicidal and mentally ill people all the time. People who committed crimes were animals in my eyes. My Dad is still like that and he judges me all the time for being sick. You should have seen his reaction when he found out about my homicidal ideation. I just wish that people would stop hating each other and only hate bad actions. I believe this world would be a much friendlier and safer place that way.
Goldfish I find it quite frightening reading your reply in this case but at the same time I admire your honesty. I think you have already thought it through what would happen if you did act on this and that it would be disaster all round (taking two people down rather than one) so i won't patronise you with asking you if you've considered that? Your anger is at a massive level and I don't know what else to say except that you do need to share your anger levels with an appropriate person. I guess you would find anger management patronising? Maybe also heavy sedation could help you reach more of a level psychologically wherein you are not a danger to yourself or others.
It may sound obvious but nothing you can do can put the clock back and there can be no positive solution whilst you dwell on this. I guess you know all that.... but feel you can't stop yourself. So it is really important that you share these thoughts with your mental health team.
In that case you definitely need to tell an authority about this. You won't be in trouble because you haven't done anything wrong. I assume you don't want these thoughts in your mind. I'm not trying to sound rude or judgmental with that statement. I just want to know your thoughts to assess where exactly you are mentally. There are people with homicidal ideation who don't care that they have these thoughts and wouldn't mind acting on them. Not all of those people are bad either. Just good people who do bad.
Ok Its good that authorities know about this, but please check yourself into a mental health care facility if you ever feel like you're on the verge of harming your adviser.
Where are you in the world I do not understand your terminology when dealing with Paranoia or something in the same group of illness, not to mention som form of mania or scitsophrenia (sorry for spelling).
If you are a danger or you are going to cause damage to someone else you need to contact your GP or hospital, it is no good waiting to have impulsive, dangerous thoughts that you will act upon without thought. In that situation you need urgent help and be put in a safe location by a involuntary section, you will possibly be a danger to society
I used to have bad thoughts of hurting others but don't anymore because I got help. I live in America by the way. Mental health is probably handled differently here.
I do not have thoughts of harming other people, ever. I just seem to hurt them through my behaviour.. ie depression. I live in England. the NHS is great. This EU referendum is a bit scary as I do not completely understand it. I am glad you don't want to harm people. That is the worst possible thing I think I could do.
We pay a National Health Stamp that covers free health care in Surgery, hospital and parts of prescriptions. We have all hospital treatment free and we have a doctor for keeping us well.
Oh we have to have insurance for health care. I was fortunate enough to find a counsellor who gets paid by our government which is very unusual here. My counsellor cannot prescribe my medication so I have to see a psychiatrist whom my Dad has to pay with insurance. He does co-pay.
Oh we have to have insurance for health care. I was fortunate enough to find a counsellor who gets paid by our government which is very unusual here. My counsellor cannot prescribe my medication so I have to see a psychiatrist whom my Dad has to pay with insurance. He does co-pay.
That is interesting to know. Thankyou. I will never take NHS for granted. Maybe that is where your relationship with you feeling your dad looks badly about you comes from. My family are supportive but they don't have to pay financially just emotionally. Well they pay sometimes financially , like taking your ex to court!!! If you don't mind me asking, how old are you ?
Nah he was emotionally abusive even before I got sick and that is one of the reasons for my illnesses. I'm 23, but still in school and financially dependent on my Dad.
Well, I am sorry to hear that. Your dad should be supporting you. I hope that you can get rid of your illness, or like me I got completely amazingly well and then got flippin anxiety recently. Well it is 01.21 here so I guess I need to go to sleep. Take care.
Mbvu, I think your honesty is brave. This is definitely a really tough subject, because it requires a balance of helping people who are mentally ill while making sure others are safe. How does one judge if the person is truly a danger to society or simply some one with unwanted thoughts? I don't know the answer, but thanks for being so honest about your own struggles.
Thank you. Sometimes authorities have to make educated judgments and sometimes one has to ask the person if they're close to carrying out their thoughts and take their word for it.
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