Large Bruise without bruising myself...anyone get... - LUPUS UK

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Large Bruise without bruising myself...anyone get this?

panda2
panda2
44 Replies

Hi all,

I woke up with this bruise this morning. There was nothing there last night and I've not banged my leg. It is not the slightest bit sore or bruised feeling. It was a yellow hue this morning, but now it is decidedly more bruise-looking. Something like this happened about 8 months ago, where I got a cluster of bruise-y circles under my arm too. Anyone get this kind of thing? It could even be a zebra stripe? 😊

Stupidly I was at Dermatology this morning and didn't report it! Really mad at myself.

Panda x

44 Replies
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Twitchytoes

That is so darn annoying when we have just seen the doctor who could explain something but forget to tell them? I forgot to ask Dr P about the permanent dark raccoon bruises in my eye sockets on either side of my nose.

They don’t show because of my glasses but they are ugly and I’m noticing them more - maybe because my skin is getting more translucent and I rub them there as they itch when I’m tired?

I quite often get bruising and don’t know where it’s come from - also did as a child. I was even tested for leukaemia and haemophilia during my first pregnancy because of random bruising. My conclusion for myself is that I have tissue instability from EDS but of course no doctors will confirm this so I just tell myself I’ve been doing acrobatics in the night due to restless nerves syndrome - and accidentally hurt myself when scratching or trying to get comfortable. I think I bump and bang into things in my sleep and am so totally exhausted that I don’t recall this the next day.

Could be different with you if courxe and definitely worth reporting as can be a sign of DVT/ thrombosis of Hughes/ APS I believe. Tx

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panda2
panda2
in reply to Twitchytoes

Oh Twitchy, you're so funny! I can see you doing gymnastics in your sleep! 🤸‍♀️🛏🤾‍♀️

I am certain this hasn't come from any kind of bump. I surely would feel the bruise. But also it would have had to have been my night table getting up and landing on the inside of my leg, then putting itself perfectly back in place. 👻 We don't even have a head or footboard on the bed.

So hmmm... I'd better look up further symptoms of what you suggest and see if anything fits. Thanks for your response. And the giggle. 😁

Px

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Twitchytoes
Twitchytoes
in reply to panda2

Well you are called panda so it doesn’t seem unreasonable that you have a penchant for bamboo and bouncing around with patches? I don’t have a bed head but the bed corner of my wooden bed is close to the door and my swollen glued up eyes mean I often bang my shins on the sharp wooden leg on the way back to bed.

Although sometimes the bruises are too high up on my thigh or on back of my leg for this.

We are also bonded by hilarity at the idea of me ever doing gymnastics! I can tell you now that I never once tried to jump over the horse thing st school - I would rather have been caned!

There are CTDs that cause spontaneous bruising I believe so definitely follow this up. Xx

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panda2
panda2
in reply to Twitchytoes

🐼🌴😱

Good point about the CTDs maybe causing this... I'm torturing myself right now because they were ready to biopsy anything I brought today -- TODAY -- and yet I didn't show this...

P x

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Twitchytoes
Twitchytoes
in reply to panda2

I have made similarly stupid omissions with dermatology too. Perhaps you could phone up the clinic reception abc tell them. I did this about a Telengecstasia over my eyebrow which I forgot to point out has grown in size and there are more now. They brought forward my next review by about 6 weeks. They may just get you in for biopsy although I’m not sure they biopsy bruises as they do rashes? X

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panda2
panda2
in reply to Twitchytoes

That's a good point. I guess I was thinking about the Vasculitis component and maybe it would show up in a bruise. But what do I know? They might have just batted it off and I'd be feeling stupid about that now instead.

Thanks Twitchy🧡 I appreciate being able to bring the mini breakdown to you. Will bounce back tomorrow and 🤸‍♀️over the horse. Or get caned. 😁😁😁

P x

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Twitchytoes
Twitchytoes
in reply to panda2

Well I’m glad if you can stop slapping your head with frustration and annoyance.

However I don’t think you should just pass it off as nothing. Just go see your GP and get a full blood count plus done etc just to be sure it’s not some new pathology. X

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panda2
panda2
in reply to Twitchytoes

Sound advice, thank you! 😘

P x

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panda2
panda2
in reply to Twitchytoes

I've been to the Gp today. She didn't like the bruise size, layout or the position, which suggested its cause was more likely to be internal rather than external. So, as I suspected, cancer testing extravaganza... But at least I was mentally prepared and I'm now over the Dermatology appt and can handle this.

Platelets are the first concern (for Leukemia, etc) and even though I just had a blood test 10 days ago, it was before the bruising so I had to do it again. She is running a clotting screen, which I've never had before; and because I also have had nausea for a couple weeks, infections, fatigue and a return of lower back pain, she is doing a myeloma screen. But she did not feel it was myeloma (nor do I). We just have to rule all this stuff out.

I asked about vasculitis and she said they'd need a biopsy. Could they biopsy a bruise I wondered? It's possible, but she wasn't sure. So I kick myself again... But there we are.

Meantime, I got in touch with my close friend who has Von Willebrands and we compared bruises. Mine is just like hers! The only difference is she can feel hers. They hurt if she presses on them. Mine -- nothin'.

Should all the tests come back negative and there's no more bruising, we call it a one off until I see Rheumatology end of Nov. Or, if I get another one I am to contact the GP again and call Rheumatology.

I thank you again for your advise and company with this Twitchy.

Panda x

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Twitchytoes
Twitchytoes
in reply to panda2

Sorry to take such an age to reply Panda. I’m so glad you went to the GP but sorry it’s resulted in more worrying than it’s resolved so far.

Fingers very crossed for you that it’s nothing serious. I do know that when I was researching my hypergammaglobulimia and dark raccoon eyes last week I came across quite a lot about Von Willebrands. I’m just crossing everything for you that it’s just related to your CTD in a non scary way.

Behçet is the main form of vasculitis I’m aware of that causes bruising sometimes. Let us know how your investigations go starting with blood results.

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panda2
panda2
in reply to Twitchytoes

Thank you Twitchy 😊. I really appreciate this response.

First report is that the clotting screen was not sent in time and I had to do it again yesterday! It's been a to-ing and fro-ing week... However, I'm really feeling that it must be related to the CTD (and hopefully in a non-scary way, as you say). Chances of developing vWD are pretty low and I'd have to have these bruises come up very regularly for anyone to test for that. This one's on the fade now.

I've been thinking on your raccoon eyes. Has anyone explained why this happens?

Panda x

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Barnclown
Barnclown
in reply to panda2

😍🐼: MANY THANKS for keeping us in the loop re how this is going....🤦🏼‍♀️ WISH you weren’t having to go through this 😬...AND, am relieved your GP is the conscientious proactive True Detective type (very like my GP, who has tended to rev into action on my behalf in a v similar way, eg several times this year re sinister gyn symptoms & later re low platelets...👍 she was saying the same things to me your GP is saying to you...now i’ve read your explanation, am thinking: this must be the protocol good GPs start up when complex patients like us have sinister manifestations...)

You’ve been through a lot of very intense investigations & treatments over the years dear 🐼...i HUGELY admire your coping abilities, but am also feeling for you greatly: eg i’ve always found surviving ordeals where cancers are possible particularly tough 😟 (eg when my panhypogammaglobulineamia was finally officially recognised & urgent tests for myeloma etc begun)

🤗 Sending you a big basket full of of gentle hugs: take as needed ...Hope you’ll keep us posted when you can

❤️🍀❤️🍀❤️🍀 Coco

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panda2
panda2
in reply to Barnclown

Coco, what a lovely, touching reply. Thank you.❤️ Gosh you guys are amazing when it comes to saying just the right things when the rest of our worlds are pretty crap at that in particular.

It is always that bit extra tense when the sinister stuff is being tested for, you are right. Though I have to say I've got the low hum of 'everything is fine' running through me in a very instinctive kind of way. I think I can trust that.

You are the queen of surviving intense treatments and investigations! I just knew it meant more testing when the bruise came up (even when it's likely nothing), especially due to the pending surgery. If I left it, the surgeon or the pre-assessment team would make me test anyway which could push the surgery back. This way it's done and dusted before I even get to my surgeon.🤞🤞

Bless your kind heart.

🐼💕

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Barnclown
Barnclown
in reply to panda2

🤗 THANKS: your sweet words help a lot to keep my 🤡 show on the road

+ 👍 EXACTLY: you needed to get this looked at & understood!

🤷🏼‍♀️ For us it’s: Never a Dull Mo 😉....🍀❤️🍀❤️

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panda2
panda2
in reply to Barnclown

MUST keep 🤡 show on the road!!!! Oh Yes!

Never a dull moment is right...😳🧐😉

P x

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Barnclown
Barnclown
in reply to panda2

🤩 😆🧜🏼‍♀️👍🤷🏼‍♀️🌈🦓💫🥰

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panda2
panda2
in reply to Barnclown

ALLLLLL CLEAR!!!! (for the cancer stuff!)

Looks like it has to be some function of the CTD and/or a vasculitic component as many of you suggest. Or a condition that would need many many more bruises to bother looking into. Big relief for today!

There is further blood pooling now in one corner of this bruise and two new circle bruises on my upper arm I've just woken up with.. But am going to get on with my day now!

THANK YOU ALL for your input and amazing support and overall specialness.😊❤️🤸‍♀️❤️

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Barnclown
Barnclown
in reply to panda2

😍🐼😅👏👏👏👏💐💐💐💐🍀❤️🍀❤️

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panda2
panda2
in reply to Barnclown

❤️🧜‍♀️😘

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Jmiller623

Hi Panda. Yes, I get this from time to time. I know I didn’t incur any trauma. It usually happens when my joint pain flares up. I honestly don’t know what causes them. Just like you, they turn yellow and feel like a bruise. Some turn into full blown bruises and some stay yellow and go away along with the pain. I also thought about EDS as someone suggested below but never had genetics testing. I chalk it up to being on aspirin and Plaquenil (which also inhibits blood clotting cells). My counts are always fine but I think a blood count and coagulation tests are always a good place to start with any spontaneous bruising. I’m not sure dermatology would be much help. Maybe send a note to your rheumatologist that this has been happening.

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panda2
panda2
in reply to Jmiller623

Hi and thank you so much for your reply! I'm comforted, in that empathetic kind of way, that you get this too... Is that a bad thing?

I'm on Hydroxy but no aspirin and my bloods are perfect as of a week ago. Never had any clotting issues ANCA is a-ok. I've had fatigue badly these last couple weeks, nausea and joint pain but no swelling, infections ad nauseam. I know I should probably see my Gp and/or let someone know..... 😶

Thanks again.

Panda x

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Jmiller623
Jmiller623
in reply to panda2

Yeah. They always pop up when I’m not feeling well. I guess when it rains, it pours. Hope you’re on the upswing soon!

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panda2
panda2
in reply to Jmiller623

I just had my GP appt to take a look at this. Responded above to Twitchy. I thank you so much for sharing your experience and your other post. Back in the thick of it again... But, as you know as well as anyone(!), this is how this all goes.

P x

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Ssmart

I have RA and I only have to kneel to get a black and blue bruise on knee at times, no pain with most of the bruises yet looks like it should feel tender!

It doesn’t always mean a flare is imminent in my case it just seems part and parcel of autoimmune annoyances (as I like to call them!)

xx all the best

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panda2
panda2
in reply to Ssmart

Gosh, you are a princess and the pea! I have my fingers crossed that it is exactly like you say -- part and parcel....☺️ Thanks for weighing in.

P x

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Barnclown

😍🐼: 😧 that’s A LOT of bruising! Glad you posted!

I forget: have you been investigated for any types of hypermobility...cause my non-contact bruises of all sizes especially on arms, hands, legs, feet are said to be often due to my hEDS....+ also due to my small vessel vasculitis...

Also, sometimes my non-contact bruises happen when an infection is simmering elsewhere - it’s one of my first signs. and, because i have SLE simultaneous with CVID, a type of PID (primary immunodeficiency), it’e extra crucial i sure flaring infection is spotted & adequately treated pronto. that’s any type of infection: bacterial, fungal, viral

my immunologist + rheumy vasculitis specialists say that when my platelet levels are in normal range, this bruising is down to a pie chart of underlying causes: hEDS collagen debilitation, vasculitic inflammation of the small blood vessels - sometimes related to infection flaring somewhere.... I can look as if a horse has kicked me in the legs! And recently i’ve been getting more of these, so i’ve been guessing the reason is my myco is still paused due to the shingles so my vasculitis & my lupus are worse due to this infection 🤷🏼‍♀️...but my GP wants me to ask rheumatology + immunology for their thoughts...

Hope you’re keeping a log of when this bruising occurs etc....please let us know what your medics thing

🍀❤️🍀❤️ Coco

PS just posted some great relatively recent EDS support group info video links to Jmiller’s thread re your post, 🐼...i ❤️ that these medics acknowledge that AID/CTD/PID can tend to all be together in our diagnostic piecharts

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panda2
panda2
in reply to Barnclown

Hi 🤡!

Just posted my bruise development above in response to Twitchy. More mulberry bushes. But will get there! Really appreciate your interest and I'm making my way slowly through that video you posted under Jmiller623. Thank you!

🐼x

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panda2

Coco, thank you! 🥰 I'm sorry to hear you get this horse-kicked thing too. Great image by the way. And this is super helpful information. Helps me to sift through what could be me and what isn't. I don't have EDS. Only one hyper mobile joint -- thumbs -- the rest, not so... Vasculitis in small vessels is on my radar. But I don't really understand it. When I had the bruise-circles under my arm some months ago, my Rheumatologist said it was the vasculitis. I think I need to ask her more about this. I was under the impression the way she said it off the cuff that we don't do anything about it, is that right?

When I read this just before bed last night, I sat up when you said about yours sometimes being related to infection flaring. I've been in infection-flaring mode for quite some time now -- since our Shingles debacle actually...😬 Hoping it's not a precursor to worse. I'll stay in watch and wait mode.

Definitely I'm keeping track. Already printed off the pic with the date for next Rheumatology. Thanks especially for the vasculitis thought and I wonder, since I had a Myco pause during Shingles too (albeit much smaller than yours), there could be after-effects there too. It's a great point.

I waffled about the Gp this morning, but I just don't have it in me after a huge Dermatology 4 consultant appt yesterday. I know my Gp would have to test for cancers like Leukemia if she saw it now, particularly with my cancer history. If it goes away in a few days then she won't. So I'll wait a few days.

That was really helpful!

🐼🧡 😘

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Erchesw22

Have you been checked for Von willebrands?

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panda2
panda2
in reply to Erchesw22

Hi, no I haven't been. I thought it was only inherited as one of my best friends has this, but I've just done a quick search and see that there is an acquired version that affects people with immune diseases among other things... Thanks, will add to the list!

Px

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panda2
panda2
in reply to Erchesw22

This was a stellar thought! I've just reported my update from GP today above under Twitchy's latest. But wanted to let you know in person I contacted my friend with Von Willebrands and she sent me pics of her 2 big bruises she is sporting right now. They are nearly identical. The only difference is mine doesn't hurt. Her's hurt minimally.

She explained it needs a separate test and that my platelets will be normal, so I have this in my back pocket as the acquired version to bring to Rheuamtology if I get further bruising.

Thanks for your brilliant suggestion.

Panda x

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Jumper99

I used to get bruises on the backs of my thighs. Eventually discovered it was where the edge of my dining chair seats dug into my legs a little bit. I have long legs and have always tucked then under the chair to keep them out of the way but it puts a bit of pressure onto the legs.

I hope find an answer to what’s causing your bruises. X

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panda2
panda2
in reply to Jumper99

Oh! That's a good answer to yours! Thanks for the good wishes.

P x

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patientpat

hello,

yes I had a similar huge bruise on my calf. I actually felt it developing and it was very painful. I never banged or hit it. Got a few small ones as well.

Ive had them before but not this big. When I saw GP for another condition, he looked at it.

He thought it was due to the Aspirin I was taking so suggested I stop it which I have.I eat quite a bit of blood thinning foods so the the Aspirin was probably not necessary and counterproductive.

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panda2
panda2
in reply to patientpat

So glad to hear you got yours under control! And that aspirin/certain foods could have been behind it. Makes sense. How interesting that you could feel yours forming and that it was painful. I think that's the real mystery that I can't even feel this thing. And no aspirin or blood thinners or even pain killers. The only new med in the last 3 weeks is a different version of Hydroxy. That's made me question if it's a side effect... Hmm... I'll go take a look! Thanks for that.

Panda x

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patientpat

Your welcome.good luck with that. Might be worth having your platelets tested?. This is often the case with me but not always but I also Have Antiphospholipid Syndrome which can do all kinds of weird things to the blood.

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panda2
panda2
in reply to patientpat

Just had my platelets re-tested as the bruising came up after my last test. Thanks again for your input.

P x

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patientpat
patientpat
in reply to panda2

your very welcome. hope you get some answers.

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Minimum

I have the same. and they take forever to fade.

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panda2
panda2
in reply to Minimum

Really helpful to hear of others with this too. Thanks!

P x

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Jmiller623

I’m sorry Panda. Lupus is a life of hills and valleys. I’m sure all will return normal. I agree with your GP. The bruising we get is internal like deep muscle or tissue which is why it is without trauma. Some of mine hurt and some don’t. Probably depends on what’s under/over the bruise. I think it’s lupus caused with some sort of small vessel vasculitis. Von Willebrands usually presents much earlier in life especially with menstrual cycles and postpartum bleeding. My labs did look von willebrandish when my lupus anticoagulant was wildly uncontrolled. They’ve normalized now. I think we (as in lupus peeps) eat up clotting factors when we’re sick. I don’t know why. Inflammation cascade blah blah blah

I hope your testing reveals nothing but good health! I do hope you feel better soon. ❤️

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misty14

Hi panda, I get similar bruises to you, that's a whopper. It can be inflammation of blood vessels as I'm getting more of them as I'm reducing the steroids. Have said this to my Rheumy so good idea to tell yours. It's also good your being well monitored for all other possibilities and you saw your GP. Do hope all your tests come back negative as you have enough to think/worry about. Keep us posted how you get on. Take careXx

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panda2
panda2
in reply to misty14

Thank you lovely Misty! You get these too? Again, as awful as this sounds, that is comforting to me.. 😊

Yeah, I knew I'd have to go through the cancer tests. There's no escaping them with me. But I do know this will help clear the path for surgery even more. I'm feeling very a-ok about results being fine actually. It was the pain in the butt to go through the process and then having to re-test for stupid mistakes that makes it such a palaver. Done and dusted now. Now I just get on with it and should know all by Monday.

Thanks for your excellent company here!

Panda x

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misty14
misty14
in reply to panda2

I guess it's better to be safe than sorry isn't it panda where cancer is concerned. You will be checked frequently if things like this keep occurring. All the very best for mondsy, fingers tightly crossed its good news. Keep us postedXx

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