This is great news KocoPr. Those test results look very good to me. BAT is a treatment I want to learn more about. In my case leuprolide alone worked for over 6 years, however, it looks like I've just become castration resistant, as my PSA has recently risen significantly with being on leuprolide alone. I just completed 4 months of docetaxel (first time on chemotherapy), however, PSA is still very high. I've not begun any of the additional hormonal agents (abiraterone, enzalutamide, etc.) as of yet. It looks like BAT may be an option for me at this point. Does anyone have information on oncologists in Florida that may utilize BAT? Thanks.
Two benefits; delay of castrate resistant , quality of life, oh and one more that is used by SOC BAT and it is very important is to resensitize to enzalutamide, appalutamide, and darolutamide.
I might have to look into this seriously. Hopefully there will soon be some genetic profile that will help to identify people who would benefit from BAT. Do you know anyone doing bat with daro?
BAT will work for everybody who is not T-NEPC, approx 20% will develop this subtype where the cells are no longer dependent on AR signalling. If the NSE level is higher than 20 and rising this is probably the case.
Daro needs 6 days to clear the body so we hit the body with high T on 5th or 6th day. We also use testosterone propianate as non SoC but with the blessing of our OC. My use of Osterine and cardarine during my daro/Orgo cycle are also non SoC.
Mateobeach uses testosterone cypionate which is SoC.
The difference between cyp and prop is half life. Cyp takes apprx 30 days to clear and prop takes 2 days to completely clear. So one injection/month compared to one injection every other day.
Propionate is usually a two week cycle where cyp is a 30 day cycle.
If you want to start it i would suggest propionate for two weeks then daro for two weeks then check your PSA after both cycles. Maybe better to do a couple of complete cycles to see if you are a responder.
convincing my MO would be hard and without him behind me I could not get the testosterone or anything else, that’s why I was looking into some study. Question: is it for when you become castration resistance to resensitize or is it used also while hormone sensitive?
I live in Norway,,strictly forbidden to import testosterone. But there is a solution, you can use Testogel. I have a MD friend who issued the prescription. Having access to Enza I could treat myself. In the meantime the MO finally accepted.
There sre no trials for hormone sensitive, although i could be wrong on that. If i am someone will chime in 😂
The SoC is for castrate resistant so once you become resistant you can try resensitizing which works for 1/3 of patients. Best to get ahead of the curve in my opinion and do it while still hormone sensitive. You don’t want to be the other 2/3rds.
What sequence would you do if you have enanthate 200 injections, enzalutamide, and androgel 0.05g. I am on Enza since 6 months ago, still works. Lowered PSA from 8 to 1 with ENza and SBRT to all spine mets.
Should I stop Enza and begin testosterone or wait some time to begin testosterone?
Testosterone is readily available thru trt nation, Hone and a bunch of others, is relatively inexpensive at about $50/ mo as Dr write rx as long as psa is below 4 and bloodwork all checks out. I assume once trx is working after 6 mos your mo will probably jump on board and continued tests n rx can be continued…
"We have also observed that response rates to BAT are higher in patients whose tumors harbor mutations in genes involved in homologous recombination repair (HRR)" now this is interesting for me
Thank you. Those trials on BAT do not alternate with an ARSi. I will make a decision this week. Will try to switch to DARO from ENZA and also get some propionate somewhere and do my own BAT protocol with what I have and where I am
Concerning NSE, yes. My MD has measured NSE and AR-V7. After BAT NSE has dropped from 19 to 14, indicating reversal of the T-NEPC development, AR-V7 is no 0. I use Indo to stay that way.
Your PSA is making higher lows with each cycle. Is this not indicative of some growing resistance to testosterone suppression/ADT?
While on Darolutamide, the drug is sitting in the androgen receptors of your cells and preventing androgens from binding to them. During your Daro portion aren't your SARMS being blocked from binding to the receptors as well, i.e. you're wasting them?
Good questions and one us BAT warriors also question. the slight rises in psa during the daro cycle is up for debate but my PSA did drom from last daro from 0.67 to 0.50 which is an indication BAT cycles are working.
Tremendous post on your plan and numbers at 1 yr... your lows of .05-.07 for the time period from early August to late November.....that's impressive..... I would say that the book was an excellent investment... Thank you for laying it all out there....
We have advanced beyond the science, forum members....Individuals sharing is all that we have available (personal case presentation)... Seeking a treatment change, or on vacation looking at an addition to your next razzle dazzle plan, perhaps something to consider....... It makes me ponder how this fits into my own plan, and how to add it... part of breaking resistance is through DNA breakage and apoptosis...
But for now, letting sleeping dogs lie can make sense too..( at least that's what CuJoe told me ) A somatic test may be in order for me, if I need to revisit my plan..
Great results. I had a great response to zytiga and had an undetectable psa and clean scans for 30 months and have been on a treatment break for 9 months. psa is rising and when I go back on treatment I plan on implementing PBAT. My question is since I’ve been a great responder to zytiga should I use it during my adt phase? I see that everyone is using darolutamide which I think is quicker acting and has less side effects. I am Gleason 9 and not sure if darolutamide will be as effective for my cancer. I’ve followed Russ for a long time and remember he was using zytiga during adt phase in his earlier cycles a few years ago. I would appreciate any insight or feedback some of you on PBAT might have. Thank you
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51 yr old Gleason 9 with PSA 5.9 anyone with similar results?