I was over the moon that I got an award on reconsideration after initially getting zero points. I found out when the arrears went into my bank. Well I got the award letter today and I’m less pleased. I only got 2 points each for preparing food, washing and bathing, managing toilet needs and dressing and undressing and zero for mobility. I’m really confused because mobility and food prep are my biggest issues and I went into a lot of detail as to why on both my initial form and my reconsideration statement. I literally don’t go anywhere without my partner and am virtually housebound and I’m unable to prepare food as I can’t lift pans or bend to use the oven safely, amongst other problems. I just don’t think I can handle the stress of going to appeal. Should I just be happy that I got something? Also can I still get a blue badge for parking if I don’t have the mobility component? That would make a huge difference to me and I would definitely go out more if I knew we could park more easily.
PIP Standard Care awarded on reconsid... - Fibromyalgia Acti...
PIP Standard Care awarded on reconsideration but no Mobility award
Hi, the blue badge would not be automatically given. But there is nothing to stop you from applying for one.
Momo
I would differently apply for a blue badge as would be so much easier too park for your partner and helpful for you , sorry too hear about the points you got, totally understand about having to appeal (I do read here many do ) just seems unfair for people here struggling on a daily basis, let us know how you get on and take care x
I've got a blue badge and not receiving PIP. It was easy enough to get, just filled in the application form, attended an interview with occupational health person and hey presto a week later the badge arrived. I was watched from the carpark and I was walked to the interview room by the OH person. She asked about the supermarket shop etc and how I managed, nothing too gruelling. The badge cost me £10 and I have had it renewed at least 3 times now and it's never been a problem.
Hi I was given a blue badge with the same award as you (standard rate daily living). It is your Local Authority who issue them. I applied online no assessment just an email to say I was approved and to pay £10. Good luck ! I would also do a mandatory reconsideration if you feel you should have been given more points 😃
Hi, my award was exactly the same, just because they choose the day we aren’t bed bound to assess us we can walk!! Yes you can still get a blue badge I have one and yes it does help immensely. I also have a badge on the rear of my car to stop the ruts and stares! Keep on acknowledging how wonderful what you can do, every single day because you are a fighter they just don’t have the ability to see what it’s like to live a mile in our shoes.
I couldn't get a blue badge because I didn't have the mobility component - it depends on your Council's rules. (Mine is Bradford)
This is a common ploy by the Decision Maker, because you have been so long with the wrong assessment and no financial benefits to help. They realise that the strain in having a reassessment or MR or having to ask for a FOI on what they used to assess you or make a decision is time consuming and very stressful that people give up and except a lower rate.
What they don't tell you:
You are entitled to a copy of the assessment report and a copy of the decision Makers report. Even if you are awarded Enhanced rate for both, YOU STILL HAVE TO SIGN A COPY SAYING YOU HAVE READ THE REPORT AND EXCEPT ITS CONTENT, which can be done electronically, ( By E-Mail) or ask for the report and ask for TWO copies one to keep and one to sign and send back which is what is supposed to happen.
Ring and ask for a copy to sign ( and one to keep) to except that nothing has been left off as you believe the information you supplied has not all been looked at and need to verify it with the documents you have?
Its that simple, since you are already being paid "something" its a start.
This is so wrong. Anyone who wishes can get a copy of the assessor's report, tho it's not needed if going for a Mandatory Reconsideration (MR). An assessor's report is just a recommendation, & a MR should be based on your actual decision letter, as only a decision maker can award points. You certainly don't need to sign for an assessor's report, nor that of a decision maker, as you will just have received a letter about the latter. There is certainly no need to say you accept any report, nor sign for it whatsoever.
If you meet certain criteria you will automatically receive a Blue Badge: gov.uk/government/publicati... otherwise, as others have said, it does depend on you Local Authority's criteria.
I don't know if your comment was about my post? but, if you don't ask for a copy of the Opinion from the assessor you won't get it. ITS because they are hired by the DWP to give their opinion based on what is presented to them by the DWP.
EVERY report is for Decision Maker and it is they you have to ask for the copy after he has looked at it. As for signing for it you need to read the charter as the decision Maker is supposed to send you a "fully justified report" as to how they arrived at their decision, also showing what they used in support of that decision and also show where they drew their conclusions from "seperating "what is fact and what is their OPINION.
How can you except a decision that they have made if you haven't seen the decision letter?
If you read the charter they are supposed to send you the report and assuming you except its content sign to say you have excepted it, and no further action will be taken against the assessors for a rework or MR or the Decision Maker should there be things that were missed or just not included in either report.
EXAMPLE: The last time I showed an example people said it was my reasoning, its not... If the Decision Maker only required part of your claim to be looked at and required clarity on medical terms or medicines taken and only sends the assessor part of the information you have sent in, then the assessor can only work with what he has been sent, BUT because of the Descriptors used, and a system called LiMA, will still give the same assessment to everyone, most know how the points system works and the questions being asked, so why is it such a shock when not getting what you believe you are entitled to as this is as much an opinion as the assessor only it is happening to you.
It is up to you to supply as "little" or as "much" as you feel you want to, but in not giving any details about things effect you daily, they can only form an opinion on what is in front of them.
Blue Badge: In Cardiff it is not automatic, and you have to apply for it as it costs £10 plus a photo of you to produce the Blue Badge. I have in 25 years ever had an assessor for Blue Badge see me walk across the car park and say I saw you walk here and will sign the forms and give you a badge? How did he know you were comming? Did you have to pay for the badge or supply a picture? In Cardiff it takes around 10 days to 2 weeks, sometimes quicker as the people that issue them are great and will help you fill out the forms.
I would think that if a claimant is proceeding with MR, then they definitely don't accept what a decision maker has put in their decision letter.
You say, ''How can you except a decision that they have made if you haven't seen the decision letter?'' I couldn't agree more.......
You can ask for a copy of the assessor's report as soon as it's been returned to the DWP; you don't have to ask for this from a decision maker, nor after they've seen it. I don't know why you think you have to sign for the assessor's report should you request it, & you do have to request it, as they're not sent out automatically.
There seems to be some crossed purposes here:
The claimant cannot proceed with an MR until he receives a letter from the DECISION MAKER. By that time you would have been assessed by the assessors either face to face, phone call, ZOOM, or paper based, "depending on what you have sent in. Paper based can be Treminal Cancer claimants, and fast track, to people who already have mental issues that would agravate the claimants condition, so the Decision Maker makes his first Decision as to what he needs clarifying.
This is not always correct since the last 10 cases ALL have had an interview, INCLUDING TERMINAL CANCER PATIENTS 3 IN THE LAST 4 MONTHS,, recently resolved and taking 4 MONTHS TO GET THE DECISION MAKER TO UNDERSTAND THAT A LETTER FROM THE GP SHOULD HAVE FAST TRACKED THEM? ALL taking 20 weeks to even get them to look at the files and medical records of these patients, and still required a ZOOM meeting and further consultation with a GP.
You are entitled to a copy of the Assessment report as the DWP are hiring the Assessors to write a report not you. Any report written by any one and or held on a Government computer for access to by other "interested parties" (LIKE UC) is covered under the DATA PROTECTION ACT and should be sent automatically after the assessment, NOT WHEN THE DECISION MAKER IS FINISHED WITH IT? since that report is supposed to "uninfluenced by the DWP" and the assessors is supposed to sign a decloration to state this when sending it to the Decision Maker, also in the assessors Charter and CANDOUR, this is why when questioning the Decision Makers report, they pass the buck back to the assessment company saying they have no influence over the report and need to contact them if that report is incorrect.
The Decision makers report is not up for debate since THAT report should also state what is opinion and beyond there expertise and what is Medical Fact and where they drew their conclusions from. And by the way ALL assessment reports must contain the expertise of the assessor their ID number as it appears on the Medical Register for their skills ( NMC,GMC, or therepists) and be signed either electronically or normal, these rules were introduced again LAST YEAR and have been in practice for over 9 years but the change in the laws, now say any of the 10 POINTS IN THE CHARTER THAT IS MISSING the assessment company will not be paid. THIS ALSO COVERS REWORK, (the reason that the DWP hired them for) if it is found that the standard of the report is so poor it cannot be used.
THE DOWNSIDE FOR US, you might have to go to a tribunal to sort it out ( unless you know the rules, which I do,) and do not give up easily even when wrong, as I deal with, CONDOUR, CPR 35 Rules including part 2. LiMA used for assessment, Expert Witness Statements, and Bond Solon Rules part 35+subheadings. the DWP Charter for access to Benefits, the Assessors Charter for report writing including the rules under Candour that cover Third Parties hired by the MAIN contract holder (DWP) just to name some.
Most people are here thinking that they must know what they are doing as they work for the DWP and government, BUT, we are her to ask for support to get access to benefits ( financial in this case as the assesment done by the NHS is free) you medical history or recent illness would dictate whether you can work and it is this assessment support that you need. You know you are ill why do you have to allow some one elses opinion state whether you are entitled to benefits or not? It is the degree of benefit support that is in question here not there opinion of why or if?
I'm sorry to read you've helped claimants with terminal cancer (it presumably being thought they have 12 months or less to live), who have been subjected to an assessment, which shouldn't happen. Perhaps they hadn't had a medical professional complete form SR1.
We're both trying to help claimants in our different ways, & would agree that PIP is certainly not perfect, but it's been with us for 10 years now, & likely will continue, so I feel we have to work with what we've got.
I've taken a different path to yourself, from the wise words of a WRO who in their professional capacity represents benefit claimants at tribunals, to reading the ADM (Advice for Decision Makers), which is based on the Social Security regs. This because PIP is a Social Security benefit, & if appealing to a tribunal you are initially appealing to the First tier tribunal (Security Security and Child Support).
The WRO was the one that said assessor's reports are a distraction, & unless one or 2 irrefutable errors can be found in them, then put them to one side, as concentrating on these will not get you PIP.
You on the other hand have concentrated on the Civil Procedure Rules, especially regarding expert witnesses & assessors, the former also with the Bond Solon rule you mention.
A PIP claimant is not going to court, rather a Tribunal, which is inquisatorial, & decides on the 'balance of probabilities,' if the claimant has the difficulty (looking at any/all of the PIP descriptors) that they've said in doing/attempting these reliably.
Unlike yourself, I am still learning about the regs, & will continue to pursue finding out more about benefits other than PIP, altho I'm sure there will be more to learn about that too, but don't think I'll stray into civil procedure & legal proceedings. I rest my case!
While I agree with what is said, my choice of words "court" and not Tribunal Is a slip of the pen so to speak and when talking about courts, its because in dealing with the law aspect I have been to second Tier Tribunals and attended Crown Court, in defence of Claimants and their assessment of benefits.
In having to "justify"my statements in court, as when questioned by a Judge, the rules set out in law are specific, and MUST be adhered to by the DWP and any person they hire to assess the claimant. Because you sign a decleration stating that you give permission to the DWP to contact people that treat you if necessary, in plain english if you read it correctly it also gives permission to give your information to others THAT THEY CONSIDER MAY HELP THE DECISION MAKER. These are people like Capita, Maximus, Concentrix or ATOS the main contract holders for assessments but can use others.
Because I deal in contractual law, I have had documents changed that you use now. The latest one is the payment for Assessments? when ATOS did them they were doing them for £650 plus rework or "extra work" like a MR or FOI etc, because these people are supposed to be experts they are in the process of changing the descriptors right now to make it even harder for people to claim.
I had the term Medical removed from their forms sinc eit is NOT a medical anything, but an interview for access to benefits. The new rules state that ALL assessment and Decision Maker reports Must be fully justified, and if found to be of a poor quality or any one of the first 10 points missing any rework is to be footed by the assessment company. In other words a one off payment which contains a decleration by the company that the manager has also checked the report and also signed to its content.
If the report is found to be poor in a Tribunal, although it is only to be an arbitrator between both sides can make the assessor appear in a tribunal and make his/her work be checked as a one off mistake or can force the Assessor to be retrained , the whole department then gets looked at and can have their licence to assess suspended until the work is of a standard that can be used again, it also leaves the assessor and the assessment company open to a compensation claim, on top of the back payments due.
This is why ATOS QUIT, Capita are also now under review by the DWP as the number of people now awaiting decisions and reworks are getting longer. When was the last time you rang PIP's or DWP and was not on hold for over half an hour PLUS before some one answers and sends you some where else. THE PANDEMIC ENDED TWO YEARS AGO, SO THERE IS NO EXCUSE. Most are working from home and do not have full access to the system they are supposed to be running, even letters take 20 days to reply if your lucky, WHY? If its on computer it takes seconds.
SORRY there was another part. Yes both terminal cancer patients were in the pandemic and yes had their benefits stopped by the DWP and PIP's while they checked their medical records. One had all his stomach removed and has special "shakes" instead of food, yet still had an assessment by Capita to say he could stand and cook a meal for one and use a micro wave? and has a stoma fitted but still alive, including a stroke down left side, assessor said used to play in a band and plays his guitar for relaxation? His hand is frozen like a claw? The other sadly, my friend who lived around the corner, and after finally getting him a flat on the ground floor and seemed to with the medication be slowly going forward, had a stroke and died in June this year ( after a series of strokes and falls due to balance) His stomack never developed from birth, and had never eaten a meal, also could stand and cook a meal for one, also with shakes and added vitimins and on two crutches permanently and a mobility vehicle to get round in, assessment was seen walking at a gait?
I have followed the family wishes and not persued his case even though he had THREE tribunals and won them only to give standard rate care ONLY?
I appreciate how much you're trying to do, & am pleased that you're no longer calling PIP assessments a 'medical.' Like myself you seem to be working with how things are.
When you ring the PIP enquiry line you are put through to call handlers, who never were before, or after the Covid pandemic, benefit advisors. The waits now are horrendous, but lesser if ringing first thing in the morning, i.e. 9am.
Assessor's reports are indeed often found thought to be poor at a lower tier tribunal, who are more interested in hearing the claimant's difficulties, so I would stress that.
If appealing to an Upper tribunal you do then you have to find an error in law. From my understanding these are comparitively easy to find, but would they result in awarding/increasing a claimants award?
You stress the assessor's reports; I would politely suggest that a well completed claim/review form might be the most important thing.
I truly am sorry to read about your friend. I've been trying to help my next door neighour, who also has cancer, with their PIP MR; they also can only drink 'shakes, ' & yes, got a 'cut & paste' response that they could microwave a meal. So much they didn't think to write in their initial claim form tho too, which I've tried to address, & written a supportive letter standing back as their neighbour, & rather commenting as a long retired physio about their poor mobility; it's the hardest thing I've ever tried to do, as I also consider them a friend..... I'm sure it was also incredibly hard trying to help your friend.
I thank you for your kind words, and do appreciate comments, all comments, and not as an excuse, I have mental issues that I have learnt to use to my advantage, I have been dealing with the law side for about 15 years, since in stopping caused me to "have mental issues" and now find because of my training and certificates I have, in keeping my brain working I am firing on 16 cylinders, so to speak. I love reading contracts, and contracts of employment and also Candour, which covers third party people hired by the main contractor to make sure that they also abide by the rules. This is why the DWP had to remove the term medical from their paperwork as its not a medical anything its an interview for access to benefits. The reason the Decision Maker uses an assessment company is because they do not have (99%) the medical expertise to understand the medical jargon used in some of the material sent in by the claimant. This also includes prescriptions and support letters. Even with my medical background, I have to google some of them as they haven't affected me yet or I have never taken that particular drug but find its its the same but made by a different company under a different brand name.
I have always said its up to the Claimant how much or how little they send as evidence, but I always say the form filling and back up information is where the claimant should be looking to introduce how things affect them. A Decision Maker can onlybase a decision on the evidence infront of him, if he feels that he does not understand things then he will contact the relevant assessment company and get them to do an assessment of you.
This is where things break down, the Decision Maker will ask for clarity on certain descriptors that he may not understand, BUT the assessor works from a script called LiMA (Logic intergrated Medical Access) what this is supposed to mean is doctors and surgeons, and othe rprofessional people who are registered on the Medical Board Register have been asked questions about "lets say walking" All there answers are put into a grid and given an A, B, or C result, (some have been split further.) all the assessor has to do is ask the question and put in the appropiate catagory. AGAIN this is now open to interpretation since if the answer does not fit he will choose the correct one he feels would be correct. Unless he is registered on the Medical Register or (as the new rules state) Signs the decleration to state that he was registered and his certification is up to date on the day of the assessment, THEY DON'T GET PAID, and its thrown out, including the Decision Makers report who is also supposed to check when receiving the report, they don't as they rely on the assessment company to understand what Candour is and abide by it?
Any way, as long as we are both helping people here and around us to get what they are entitled to I am happy for us both.
The other thing the DWP don't do is when a Tribunal is won, they do not contact the assessment company to state the reasons why the decision was overturned and neither does the Tribunal so we never get to hear the reasons which are going on unless you are at that tribunal?
This is another reason I go to the upper tribunals as the results of the lower tribunal can still be affected by the decision maker and he may decide to give middle rate not high.
It varies from council to council regarding criteria for a blue badge. My council automatically give it if you have standard rate mobility. However it's not that much of a problem without a pip award. In reality the descriptors for PIP are very unrealistic whereas the council assessors tend to live in the real world. I got a blue badge before my award. I went for the assessment. Parked the car and made my way to the reception. I was met at reception by the assessor who stated after watching me it was obvious I had problems and signed my application.
Thanks for all your replies. They are really helpful. I did read some yesterday but I’m feeling really anxious at the moment and was able to reply. I really appreciate all your comments. I’m still undecided about what to do.
Having just read the descriptors again I’m certain I should be entitled to Mobility. I never go anywhere without my partner with me. I think I should definitely appeal.
Hi Brigga - it's very rare for an award to be decreased, so you can hopefully do a Mandatory Reconsideration, which you should put in writing. Not knowing your personal circumstances, I can only reply in general. You should state if your mobility is affected the majority of the time, & if this fluctuates. Needing your partner to accompany you is more about how your mental health problems affect you, so less about any physical problems you face.
You should try & give a couple of recent detailed responses as to your difficulty, whether they be mental health or physical problems. This should include when this happened, why, what exactly happened, & were there any consequences to attempting/doing this? You should also say if you cannot do this 'reliably,' which is ever so important. Please see: gov.uk/government/publicati... especially looking at the 'Reliability' section.
Can you explain where you are getting your information from as to not requiring a copy of the report to get a MR as if you have not seen the report how can you comment on its content.
Simply because, altho the DWP decision maker does usually go along with the assessor's recommendation, they don't always. Would a claimant base a MR on an assessor's recommendation of say 6 points for the daily living component & 4 for mobility, if their decision letter said they'd got 8 points for each? No, unless they feel they should have got the enhanced rate for one or both components.
The assessor's report is only part of such a claim, as there's also the claim/review form + any evidence that has also been sent in.
Why do you need to comment on an assessor's report at all? A claimamt should read their decision letter, then say exactly where they feel they should have got points, & why.
Since you have stated that the Decision Maker bases his report on all evidence in front of him. THIS INCLUDES THE ASSESSMENT REPORT THAT THE DECISION MAKER HAS PRODUCED BECAUSE THEY ARE BEING HIRED BY THE DWP AS EXPERTS and are being paid a MINIMUM of £850 for it?
Acording to you most believe that the assessment report, yes can or cannot be used by the Decision Maker, can you explain why pay £850 for some on to assess a claimant, because the decision maker who is not classed as an expert witness to understand any medical jargon, or interaction of tablets and what they are being used for or the expected out come if taken for long periods if he can still override what was said.
Why are you paying to be assessed by someone hired by the DWP to give access to benefits when a qualified doctor who examines you, gives you a presecrption for drugs that cannot be bought without a prescription, arrange for operations and Therepy, and place comments in your medical history about mental issues as well, and does it for free on the NHS? Doesent the Decision Maker believe what your GP is writing about you and prescribing?
I already have had the Mandatory Reconsideration. That was in the title and explained in my initial post. I did get a copy of the assessor’s report and found that she had reported things that I hadn’t said and omitted things I had said. I addressed each point. She also stated things which contradicted NICE Guidelines and medical advice I received so I addressed these quoting the NICE recommendations on chronic pain treatment. So I would most definitely recommend that people request a report. I worked at DWP as a benefits advisor for 12 years so I do know how the system works. I will be going to Appeal next.
You need 12 points on the mobility component to get a blue badge.
you can get a blue badge without any claim for pip or dla I know this for certain Someone I know has medical issues Doesn’t claim a thing got knocked back for pip However accepted for blue badges It doesn’t add up The unfortunate person hasn’t got the strength to even contest pip Such ashame
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