PiP - Aids being 'prescribed'

[Alanna012]

This appears to be coming up a few times from reading previous posts regarding PiP claims. People who have bought their own aids to facilitate an easier existence are being told they cannot count as proof of either disability/change in disability, because they have not been 'prescribed' by the GP.

Yet people are being told by their GPs that they don't prescribe things like walking sticks etc.

Further, it seems that one doesn't have to have them prescribed on the first place to use them as supporting evidence.

So what do the DWP personnel mean by 'prescribed?' From their point of view, do they perhaps mean 'advised?' Or do they mean referred to occupational therapy by consultant to 'make safe' a dwelling?

So if a GP or physiotherapist or consultant writes on your medical notes let's say you have meniere's disease (making this up as I go along) 'Patient advised to purchase a walking stick or install bath rail to prevent further falls during episodes of dizziness or imbalance' would this guiding note be counted as 'doctor prescribed' provided you could give proof of it and it was attached to your notes? Or still be dismissed?

A close family member has motor neurones and did receive aids such as adapted utensils, wheelchair, special cup, large keypad for phone, and an eye activated voice technology as well as wrist alert and alarm. An occupational therapist did install rails. These I'm assuming would have all come under 'prescribed' even though he still had to purchase some of them because they were stipulated as necessary by both the senior specialist nurse and the occupational therapist.

It would be good to have a clear idea what the DWP are talking about and why they appear to give conflicting responses.

[CM1EDSUK]

Couldn't agree with you more about such problems. As a long retired physio, I was rather incensed about a walking stick not being considered an aid as it hadn't been 'prescribed' by the claimant's GP in a recent post.

Hmm......well just looking at the NHS website about 'Walking aids' just 'perhaps' physios might be instrumental (I used to teach people how to use a walking stick, make sure it was the correct length, etc; the same with elbow crutches). Please see: nhs.uk/conditions/social-ca...

Then if we look at the assessment guide for the assessors/Health Care Professionals here: gov.uk/government/publicati... see section 2.1.25 under 'Aids and Appliances' & I quote:

''It is reasonable to expect a claimant to use an aid or appliance in the following circumstances:

- if it is medically reasonable for them to use an aid or appliance. In some cases they may have already been given specific medical advice to use the aid or appliance. In others they will not, but would likely be advised to if they sought advice from a professional such as a GP or occupational therapist'' ......oh well, they don't know about physios!

There's perhaps more importantly nothing in the Social Security Regulations that says an aid has to be 'prescribed': legislation.gov.uk/uksi/201...

[Alanna012 in reply to CM1EDSUK]

Thank you CM1EDSUK♥️ So since the assessors link acknowledges that aids 'might be reasonable to use', they ought not to be telling people that they can't count as proof of a deterioration in health condition, but I wonder if they may still be placing emphasis on the concept of 'need' maybe

So in other words, whilst it's reasonable for people to have aids to facilitate a health condition, and assessors know this, if GP, Occupational Therapist (don't know why they've omitted Physios🤔) hasn't directly advised it, it may be being interpreted as a 'want' more than an express need, or could it be that if one simply purchases without consulting a GP, it gives no real indication of an objective and professional medical observation of your true range and limitations.

As you say, you used to measure people for walking sticks and teach them how to use it, thus making sure it really suits the patient and meets and complements their condition and their need fully. Me simply buying a generic one doesn't mean it truly meets my needs, even if I assert it does.

Might it be wise for people to book an appointment to consult with a GP before purchasing an aid(s) just to ensure this is noted in their records to avoid their privately purchased aids being unacknowledged by assessors? Or better still, ask physiotherapist/consultant in advance if having treatment whether they would advise the use of aids and if so, which ones or ask for a referral to physiotherapist assess beforehand, and thus try to forestall the issue?

[catherine19611 in reply to CM1EDSUK]

i was told by a physio my gp sent me to that i need 2 walking sticks, she gave me the only one she had and told me to buy another. my pip change of circumstances application a few weeks ago, stated that as my gp had not PRESCRIBED the walking sticks that they were NOT a necessary aid, and as the grab rail i had put in my shower was also NOT PRESCRIBED by my gp that that was also not a necessary aid. i live alone, fall easily and cant get up, i have fibro, severe chronic fatigue and vertigo. i told my gp about this and asked him how many walking sticks and grab rails he had prescribed, he said none and that i should make a formal complaint about this, which i am doing at the moment

in the notes that accompany the form you have to fill it states that you should state which aids you need, it states clearly in there that walking sticks and grab rails ARE essential aids, it does not state that they have to be prescribed.

[Gizmok9]

I was basically was told the same at my first pip assessment, and told a OT assessment would be advisable. 2nd time round I never had a pip assessment but I added photos of all my aids when I ended going to appeal over it, they had a cheek to use 1st assessment 3years ago as there reference, and said nothing had changed even though I had fibromyalgia added to my lupus diagnosis and deteriorated. I used the fact how could they tell as I hadn’t even seen my own consultant since before Covid??? I ended up getting a phone call before my appeal date asking what I thought they had missed, he agreed and there and then said I got I full pip👍 seems they had no evidence to submit and I had got a charity to fight on my behalf too, but typically after I won I eventually got a my OT assessment, she agreed with all my aids I use and got myself and added a extra hand rail on stairs and a better bath seat also getting toilet rail thing for storage to use when I’m really bad. So still no proof of prescribed but can say OT say to use 🤷🏻‍♀️so got it for next time ?

[Alanna012 in reply to Gizmok9]

What you've been through is ridiculous! It would be wise if you could get something from the OT in writing. But yes, definitely say 'I received an OT assessment on xyz date, and they reviewed and validated the use of said aids already purchased and further recommended the use of handrails etc'. Include any follow up correspondence of said appointment (as DWP say initial appointment letters aren't evidence)

Could you contact them and ask for one? It merely needs to be a brief statement that they agreed with your need for aids.

Mind you I'm speculating here. But it can't hurt to cover yourself.

[catherine19611 in reply to Gizmok9]

I have had the same, my last assessment which they are 'using' was in 2018, i had a full spine mri in 2019 - ignored, i had a severe reaction to the covid vaccine in 2021 which has left me only being able to do about 20 minutes a day on a good day and not all in one go, i may get 1 or if am lucky 2 good days in a week, more over i also get more bad days than good and i can go several weeks without any good days of 20 minutes a day, i started with vertigo in 2022, which i have had 2 really bad attacks of this week, also ignored, yet they claim my condition has NOT changed since my assessment in 2018, which is also interesting as they didnt do a face to face assessment at all, no telephone assessment and totally ignored everything i had put on the form in 2018.

i have since been assessed over the phone by the chronic fatigue service, when i told him that they also claimed that i did not get breathless or fatigued (evidenced by their telephone assessment) he said that with chronic fatigue you cant assess fatigue over the phone, as it can show up hours and sometimes days after the event. the man who carried this assessment out also had chronic fatigue and knew exactly what i was talking about, he also told me to make a formal complaint about the dwp. it was so refreshing to speak to an assessor who knew and understood what i was talking about.

i wish that the people who carry these assessments out could have what we have, just for one week, and then see what they would say about it

[Gizmok9 in reply to catherine19611]

They don’t make it easy, I worry I will have to fight again at my next review. Puts me off getting mobility car for time being and im just renewing my blue badge with out saying I have pip, I applied with out benefits before, as don’t want them linked together as I’ve had my blue badge 6 years already 🤞

[catherine19611 in reply to Gizmok9]

i know what you mean, going back about 16 years ago, my mother was paralysed from her chest down, she couldnt weight bear or hold herself upright in a normal chair, she couldnt get in or out of a bath, or dress herself. we applied 7 times for her to get attendance allowance as it was then, 6 of those times she was turned down, it wasnt until the 7th time when i appealed it that she actually got it

[Erica50 in reply to Gizmok9]

I got a walking stick from my physio and it was for my left knee, and he taught me how to use it, as I didn’t know what leg I should lift first etc and he taught me , for going up stair, ‘the good go to heaven’ which means going up stairs you use your good leg to start of with, and the ‘ bad go to hell’ so coming down stairs you start off on your bad leg to come down, my physio also requested to my gp that I should get a wheelchair, and within the week my gp had put a request through for my wheelchair and it was delivered to my door. Im still on DLA ( since2012) was never invited over to p.i.p , I also requested a home visit, which I had by a lovely retired doctor, I. Also use crutches for going up stairs at night I use them like ski poles one stair at a time. Once my assessment was done and my award came through within 2 days I phoned dla and asked for a copy of the report the doctor had put in from my home visit, and I will use this if I need another assessment as I will have deteriorated since the home visit in 2012 so if they agreed with the dr whom done my home visit in 2012 and they then go against my application, I will have the copy of the original report from my home visit, and ask why they agreed with the dr in 2012 from my home visit and now disagree with my condition which has deteriorated considerably since 2012 which means they will contradict the doctor on the home visit. I always ask for every bit of paper from reports to gps suggestings the dr who did my home visit in 2012 gave a spot on report of my condition and also added a good report at the end of my assessment. I also keep every bit of paper with appointments on them for hospital or physio or neurologist. So I can go back to dates when my illness started to go down hil. I also keep every medication I have been on or tried dates also when all equipment was delivered to me as far as crutches, walking stick, and wet room was installed. I also bought my own rise and lower chair, but the dr whom done home visit was very happy with this. I got cot sides from social work and I know when thoses where delivered and put in for me. It’s the only way to prove you are being honest, if you have dates times and by whom advised the equipment. I keep a calendar with every gp appointments on it or with every gps home visit. I have also kept a copy of my last review form I sent in so that it is the same as the first form I sent them and add any deterioration to my health, which I have kept a note of so if I’ve to fill in any forms agains I know what I have written. That is why my first home visit the doctor saw me at my worse and he wrote this in my assessment form which I said I phoned and requested a copy. If you can have all theses facts in front of you, it is gonna make them look silly if they contradict the report that they first passed and also make the doctor a liar by rejecting the assessment. I keep every little bit of paper for everything that has happened to me, I request every hospital report and scan report I’ve had

[Gizmok9]

yeah I’m still going to ask for something I have told her what they had said🤞 just glad I fought for it this time family reckoned I should have the 1st time too but it’s a sole destroying process, hopefully when I change to the Scottish version it be better 🤞🤞

[Alanna012 in reply to Gizmok9]

Oh yeah I hear Scotland still understand compassion and the process is better. I often wish I lived in Scitland but all my family are here.

[catherine19611 in reply to Gizmok9]

i was the same, i should have taken the 2018 assessment of me further, but my condition was quite bad at the time and i didnt have the strength

[Gizmok9 in reply to catherine19611]

I was glad at time to get anything… but glad I fought this time but we shouldn’t have too

[DodgeDhanda]

Hi A012.

Not sure if this helps but years ago we had in my area something called the adaptions team who would come out & survey your property & so on & the only thing I ever got from them is a set of crutches that I've had almost 10 years. However other things I've purchased out of my own pocket as I can never get hold of them as you must first make an appointment just to see them to talk about your needs.

Does your local council have a welfare rights team who can help if they do then ask for their help & they will be more likely to know procedures.

[Alanna012 in reply to DodgeDhanda]

I've phoned the council and enquired about ths and bern told to email the home adaptations team, but told I will need an occupational therapist visit. Many thanks♥️

[DodgeDhanda in reply to Alanna012]

Good, now give them a week or 2 to respond to your needs & then chase them with emails & don't let them forget. With emails there is a provable timeliness & if U ever need to complain u already gave the proof

[Erica50]

also the council have an financial inclusion team whom can come out to help you with your form filling and check to see if you are get all the benefits you are entitled to, I was losing out on £35 a week in 2014 and they helped me fight this and got me it back dated.