unfortunately it seems the article is now only for subscribers but basically talks about a woman suffering from fibromyalgia for 24 years and who is now pain free thanks to medical cannabis. She got rid of her 11 pain pills. As the article describes you can google for themedicalcannabisclinics if you want to get more information about getting medical cannabis.
All the best
ps: i just edited because i found this free access reference
I became intrigued. Started reading on the subject you mentioned but the outcome was very different. There is a possibility of replacing one medical condition with another one.
As I understand the side effects can be serious such as hallucination, developing epilepsy etc. So I will be cautious, I used CBD oil before a handful of time but it was not that great.
I have been taking medical cannabis for years on prescription from my Pain Consultant. I have no significant side effects. Medical cannabis is much more effective for pain relief than any of the other pain meds I have been offered. It is very safe. I do not get hallucinations. Cannabis is used for controlling epilepsy and preventing seizures, especially in children. I've never heard of its causing epilepsy. CBD oil is much less effective for pain relief than full medical cannabis. You need to do more reading.
Sounds good 👍, my GP told me this morning he will speak to a neurologist before putting me on any pain medication.
But my reading for medical cannabis came from the NHS website and other medical journals. Never make things up 🆙. With CBD oil I had to crawl around for days, really sluggish etc.
Pleased that this medication brought you some relief.
desquinnPartnerVolunteerFMAUK Trustee in reply to Painny
I was not aware of the epilepsy risk factor but it is noted below and the differentiation between medicinal and street dispensed substances also needs to be considered. Street substances can be mixed with the likes of spice which could trigger seizures.
Not making any conclusions as the evidence in the link is low but there are posts on it just like the fact that it can conversely help with seizures but as with most seizure treatments it can also affect memory negatively.
Thank you 🙏🏻 Des, very helpful to know. I do suffer from non epileptic seizures and I aim to put all your discussions to my neurologist when the times come.
In the meantime, my GP has kindly agreed to speak to a neurologist before giving me any medication. As I suffer from vertigo there are certain drugs I cannot take. Even without medication I occasionally hit the walls right and left if I do not do the pacing which is frankly 22 hours a day. (sadly 🥲)
Thanks ever so much for the wonderful and civilised debate today. Enjoyed reading all 🙏🏻
desquinnPartnerVolunteerFMAUK Trustee in reply to Painny
what I would say is in the links it is a data point but generally cannabis is relatively safe from the use of so many that decided to inhale unlike Clinton. But quantifying that and doing it in a personal capacity are different things.
There are a few clinics now who can prescribe medical cannabis on prescription, and results have varied from it not helping at all, to significantly improving symptoms
Like everything, it can be trial and error to find what works for you (and unfortunately this option is still an expensive one).
My understanding of 'medical cannabis' is that it only contains minute traces of thc.. Apart from thc given you hallucinations and a high....it is this component which gets to the pain.
So far it has only been approved by the Home Office for exceptional cases of epilepsy
those are references from the article. I copied here because it looks you need to pay to access the article. The woman literally said that it is a pity there is no awareness of these therapies.
Cannabis is illegal to possess, grow, distribute or sell in the UK. It is a Class B drug, with penalties for unlicenced dealing, unlicenced production and unlicenced trafficking of up to 14 years in prison, an unlimited fine, or both.
As I said it is the thc component which is omitted in clinics. Don't let glossy words fool you!
Medical cannabis on prescription will have above what could be considered legal on the street. However the balance of CBD and THC is such that the high is minimised or not present at all. They are aiming for the therapeutic effect without any high.
it is a complicated setup that has grown within the constrictions applied by the legalising of medicinal cannabis but under a system demanding more research without any framework or support to encourage it. The bleeding heartstrings were pulled with pictures of children suffering with constant seizures and this door was wedged open as the politics of it being on the new constantly left no option.
However, those constrictions have allowed the current system to develop that does rely on private consultations and the likes of the non profit project twenty21 that is keeping those costs down to allow access and more importantly observational research studies that is further opening the door to more research.
I am not sure of the clinical relevance of cannabis but the ethical position is clear that there are positive signals that this may help some and that should be explored to say a yes or no to that premise. Stigma in both a social and clinical context has been preventing us making progress and the lack of science is a vicious circle due to this.
Is the current system perfect. No, by no means but it is legal and from my view of it ethical. certainly more so than the CBD purveyors. Costs from what I understand are around 150 - 250 a month but for some it is life changing but for others it is another wasted treatment.
<Des puts his soapbox away quietly and backs out the discussion :)>
Living in a country Des where cannabis use is widespread has pluses and minuses. . There are 'coffee shops' where you go to smoke or eat edibles.. It is easily available and David has used on many occasions but never long term. As long as users are responsible police look the other way. They regard the growing and cultivation of 3 plants sufficient for medicinal use. And yes it does work but what notice do 'experts' take?
There will always be those trying to make money by shipping huge quantities in or out of the Islands. We don't like them.
In fact pre lock down these islands were pioneers in developing cannabis use for Europe....mainly cos its use is widespread here.
Has its uses being 1000 miles from mainland Spain¬¬¬
Until there is mega money no pharmaceutical will do any research so it is left to those who care.
And no you can't have one group in society who's pain/conditions are worse than another
My reinforced soap box will now go back in its cupboard but not for long.
in this discussion there is the intersection of recreational, self medication as well as prescription usage. Add to that societal aspects of legalisation and decriminalisation as well as taboos and the baggage that society has with "druggies" and it becomes very confusing.
Conversation on prescription use are often peppered with the other aspects like recreational or centuries of use argument but that has no place. If it is to be considered as a drug treatment then it needs to pass drug standards and clinical efficacy standards.
Arguments about social use are different and don't have a place in the medical area but they are cohabiting in the discussion and pushing each others arguments on while addressing the taboo angle.
definitely. Knowing its medical profile is critical. We already know of risk groups like juveniles or those susceptible to MH issues. But it can be of benefit to people. I remember listening to Jim Belushi talking on a US talk show about his farm supplying strains that are tailored to veterans for PTS use with positive effects.
The seed catalogues have hundreds of varieties all with a description. Thats good but when you buy in its dried form there's no way of knowing. Price will reflect a stronger strain
I agree that more randomized controlled trials are needed as regards cannabis which need to be both peer reviewed & replicated. However, altho more studies have been done on cannabis, & the same would also have to be said about CBD (cannabidiol) as regards such further studies being needed, emerging studies have shown that CBD can be as effective as cannabis. This is also an option if bought from a reputable seller who has lab certified results as to the content of CBD (&THC).
Yet whilst you think that cannabis is ethical, & I wouldn't disagree under the right medical circumstances, this is 'certainly more' than [CBD] bought from 'CBD purveyors.' That's a broad generalisation, & perhaps why I've had no response from yourself about CBD .....even the WHO have commented on CBD saying there is some evidence it could have 'neuroprotective, antiepileptic, hypoxia-ischemia, anxiolytic, antipsychotic, analgesic, anti-inflammatory, anti-asthmatic, and antitumor properties' : openaccessgovernment.org/wh...
I would hope you could be equally open minded about both medicinal cannabis & CBD, the latter costing far less, so potentially helping some if taken correctly.
my comment on cbd purveyors is based on my own experience of marketing techniques of those selling what is a food additive but selling it as a medicine and promoting its medicinal properties with little good evidence. But even if the evidence was there, there are still the practices of some like buying fibro resources to sell products, advertising in groups and connecting with all and sundry to promote their products. Also studies by media orgs finding variable amounts of CBD and THC in their products that do not match the ingredient list. Some with illegal amounts of THC as per the UK. Also published certificates were also questionable as per that review. IIRC it was a BBC article.
This is a comment on the practices of the sellers and nothing to do with CBD itself and that just needs more studies. My comment is not about all sellers but the industry has a long way to go to become respectable with new entrants just looking for a quick buck.
As to WHO it says that it does not recommend it for medicinal use and the 2017 article that is referenced talks about not scheduling it rather than recommending its use.
I have still not read your article as I just have had so little free time and too much on. It is not top of my priority list at present unfortunately due to where we are at with CBD as a product. Cannabis has its own challenges but it is being considered for medical use / clinical trials.
In terms of medical cannabis the uk is one of the most backward countries in the world. It is safer than water. You can't overdose on cannabis and it might just save your life. You need to do more reading.
Sorry but your statement is not correct. It can cause psychosis or suppress ovulation or affect your blood pressure. Particular risk group is young people.
Glad it is working for you but it is not as simple as you make out. Water can kill through drowning of course but you can also "overdose" on it but there are also those that are allergic to it e.g. AU.
high dosages can cause hallucinations and particularly with the likes of cannabis (not cbd) oil from what I understand. Very similar to an LSD trip with time dilation or contraction and loss of touch with reality.
You mean like Erythroxylum coca, Erythroxylum novogranatense, or the opium poppy. Eventually it all comes down to molecules whether it is a herb, plant or a refined compound. Their origin is not really that important but if they are to be used as a prescribed medicine then they need to be able to give a reproducible, consistent effect that is also effective and safe.
As said in my other post, this discussion does tend to bring in the recreational and societal aspects of the discussion.
Society need to change their beliefs about Cannabis. If THC is dosed correctly it's very affective for many people suffering with pain and depression. I have personal experience with my Fibromyalgia and using magnesium & CBD with THC. Even my doctors are ok with the usage of it as they have seen a massive change on my mental well being and the things I can physically do and take on compared to last year. I have stopped several nasty meds due to using it. I still have bad days but not as many as I did before. It's personally changed my life. I don't smoke it ... yuck! I use drops under my tongue. I mainly use it for sleep as I used to not sleep much which made my condition worse. I don't drive or do anything important when I take it. This is the same with some strong pain relief meds. There are damage side effects using strong painkillers and pregabilin for long periods. Like hallucinations, dry mouth, lack of concentration, additional pains, etc. Read the warning signs on your pain meds, you'll be gobsmacked. I just chill and enjoy feeling relaxed and sleepy. A good night's sleep makes the world of difference.
indeed those meds do have warning sheets as they have been tested and recorded and this is lacking with cannabis. Perhaps when it gets to that stage then it could be prescribed but there are risks and side effects to taking it.
Please can I ask what you think is the biggest obstacle that is delaying research and development into the use of medically prescribed cannabis for pain relief? Do you think it's society, political or funding or perhaps something else?
I only ask because you are very informed about it in relation to your position with FMUK. If you'd rather not answer I completely understand. I'm just curious.
I suffer from chronic pain and my pain consultant thinks I would benefit from medical cannabis but I do not need to tell you about the restrictions for prescription.
I don't understand the social arguement. If cannabis was prepared and prescribed after the appropriate R&D and approval then it should be no different between morphine being given. After all morphine is an opioid as is heroin. I'm on morphine but I have yet to be called a junkie (to my face).
The giants in the pharmaceutical world of drugs make mega millions out of conventional drugs. No money in cannabis so no research. Just a little fiddling round the edges
Why no money in cannabis? If it is researched and found to be an effective analgesic then why would it not bee manufactured and used? It could be a big game changer and surely that would make big pharma the profit it wants? Or am I missing something?
Personally I do think that cannabis can help some types of pain. Would I try it? Yes, but only if it was medically prescribed. Not because I fear the law, more because I don't want to ingest it or smoke it. I have enough digestive problems and I value my lungs.
I have tried CBD oil. It helped but sometimes it gave me a migraine. Other times I was zonked out.
Bananas5 the money argument and big bad pharma does not stack up. Its the largest cash business in the US and has tremendous growth potential. It is a challenging environment to trade in the US with it still being illegal federally.
Just like Big tobacco are now the promoters of vaping and anti smoking products....... Big pharma will be in this market as well. the applications that are touted for cannabis are immense IF the science backs it up. There would need to be a cartel / cabal that fix the market that none can enter and start earning from this cash cow. Just not possible or practical.
playing devils advocate on the blogs argument I would say perhaps Pharma are taking the view if this is going to be used medicinally then it should go through the same regulation process that we do. Also the source does have a obvious bias to take into consideration.
This is just one of those areas that I am interested in and dabble with but it is becoming more of a fibro issue so I look into it more and more The cannabis market is estimated by some to hit up to $70 billion by 2030 with more conservative projection below. And the likes of Jazz Pharma (bought GW) are already in this market and I am sure a couple of other pharma companies will be as they already have the experience.
I think when it was legalised as a result of children with epilepsy having no other options, the government made a kneejerk and political decision because the PR take on it left them little option. But it ran counter to their previous stance and their current stance still has conflicting views from the anti crime agenda. So we are left with their must be research before making any changes and until them consultants are allowed to take a view. But the guidance (partly due to evidence base) from clinical orgs is to be very conservative as they were and are still unprepared.
Anyway that is how we got here. to go to your question the obstacle is good quality evidence that will be accepted by the science community. Observational studies where are good but they are still not random controlled trials. The evidence up to now has had many issues with study designs like not being an RCT or retrospective analysis with clear links to benefiting partner orgs. Until those studies meet the same requirements that covid vaccines and the drugs prior to it or get a lot closer then prescription on the NHS will be a challenge.
The social argument is not related to proving efficacy or it being used medically. It has an impact in that the baggage that we have about junkies or soft/hard drugs stops us from talking about or accepting these could have benefit. Some will not countenance it being of benefit and this will be prevalent in medical and research circles as it is in general society.
But the social dimension is more relevant with people saying we should all take it for chronic pain as it is a plant that has been used for centuries, is safe, and other countries do it. The devil is in the detail and the government making the choice to decriminalise or legalise cannabis will allow some to self prescribe and may benefit but is not without risk. However, it will not change the argument about good evidence and the difficulties with the NHS being able to prescribe it like tramadol for example.
It is prescribed in Israel for people with chronic pain but that is partly due to their health system and you need to pay for it and it is limited to a relatively small amount as they are concerned about abuse profile as well. But it does not work for all people and there are some risk groups and side effects beyond the economic benefits to Dominos
Thanks for the reply. I wonder if those who would not approve of it on the basis of it being cannabis based have ever suffered chronic pain? I doubt it.
As a teenager I was always warned about the dangers of drugs. My parents were pretty conservative and although some moderate alcohol was allowed drugs certainly weren't. So when I developed Lupus, FM, EM, EDS and POTs and was writhing in pain and having no relief from medication, I almost fell off my chair when my father asked my brother if he knew how we could get some cannabis for me to try! My brother and I shared a shifty look of ,"well maybe 15 years ago but best they don't know that."
Research and development is vital but as you say getting the R&D approved and funded is just the first hurdle. My pain consultant is actually very pro cannabis for pain management. He is frustrated that he has to put me through risky IV lidocaine infusions twice a year for erythromelalgia when he believes that I would benefit from a cannabis based medication as it has been shown in trails to help my type of EM and with significantly reduced risk.
I have an arrythmia and IV lidocaine can make this worse or even put me into an arrest so I have to take up theatre space on an NHS list, whereas if the medication was approved I could have a trail without draining resources. It would probably be cheaper too in the long run.
I seem to remember havi g a liking for strawberry flavoured bonbon sweets once upon a time. They used to make your jaw stick together 😁
I think it is those that have scare stories of peoples lives being wasted by drugs including cannabis that increases the baggage that these discussions have to cut through. I have been attacked on here for my "drug seeking" in defending tramadol helping me. But, that person had some bad life experience and the loss of family through addiction so saw things through that lens.
There is something about cannabis and blood pressure so with arrythmia there could be a consideration. But if you have the means then Project Twenty21 could be an option to see if it would work. There is a cost but perhaps you would find if it is a practical option for you.
not as clear cut as that but it is happening. The NICE CPP guidance is not a law as such and doctors still are to make clinical decisions based on their experience, their judgement and the patient in front of them. There is a lot of good in that guidance but also some abject stupidity IMHO.
Yes, we can all have our bias. I worked in Emergency Nursing for 15 years so have seen lives destroyed by drugs like ketamine, cocaine and heroin. I have also seen children sedated safely and had nasty fractures reduced under sedation with ketamine in minutes in a highly monitored environment. They remember nothing about the experience and its over in minutes.
I have seen life-threatening nosebleeds stopped with clinical cocaine, and I have seen terrible pain taken away with IV morphine.
It's swings and round-abouts. Any drug can be abused. Even laxatives.
What works for one might not work for another. We are all different. Different DNA, different synapses, prostaglandins, different receptors. So we need to have open minds.
I always think that I am jumping all over the place in this discussion and criticising all sides but it is really just to get to the point that you are making above. With the right experience, patient and situation then Ketamine or cocaine is useful but we have the evidence to guide us in those situations. We do not have it with cannabis.
Yet, we do not have it with cannabis yet. But one day I hope that we do 🤞. And one day I hope people are in a lot less pain and have a better quality of life as a result. And if not cannabis then maybe there is something else out there that hasn't gone through R&D yet. I refuse to give up hope.
I have awful pain problems and was diagnosed with PMR - Fibro about four years ago. I have been there and done that medically... Still fatigue and pain with much Prednisolone.
And then! I had a few brownies to try and the effect was superb. The pain went away totally and I was so relaxed. I did not get stoned and was fully functional and alert. At night I slept extremely well and did not have a hangover! I am very familiar with hangovers having been a professional DJ and then a Publican for decades.
Nothing but pain relief and such a relaxed feeling
I don't have any now (and will not smoke) so I'm not sure what to do.
I am about to apply for a Can Card and have mentioned this to a medical professional who understands.
I did try CBD and it was a total waste. I don't ever want to be high or stoned I just don't want pain anymore. It's awful
I may apply to a "clinic" and do things legally.
I think (now) that this country could easily open medical marijuana pharmacies with a coffee shop vibe and make money for our country in doing so. Something like that....
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The cannabis market is estimated by some to hit up to $70 billion by 2030 with more conservative projection below. And the likes of Jazz Pharma (bought GW) are already in this market and I am sure a couple of other pharma companies will be as they already have the experience. 
KanaVape Cannabis e cigarette for pain
Is fibromyalgia medically accepted?
No medical
medication?
Medication 
