Hi Everyone, Have you tried functional medicine to manage fibro? I'd be grateful to have any recommendations of good holistic drs. see below

[inpaino1]

I watched an episode of Doctor in the House where doctor Chatterjee managed someone's fibro in 6-weeks - I identified with a lot of possible causes of my fibro from that episode that conventional doctors are ignoring. I would like to see a holistic, functional medicine doctor like him who could actually listen and help. I'd be grateful for any success stories or recommendations. Many thanks.

[JayCeon]

Hi there - BTW here's a tiny snip regarding the Doctor in the House Rangan Chatterjee episode on the charity pages of FMA UK: fmauk.org/latest-news-mainm....

Looking at the 3 of his ideas mentioned here backpainbloguk.com/2017/07/...

1) blue light filter glasses (I use night shift mode) helped sleep and 3) mindfulness helped management (also my experience), while 2) diet didn't (which may or may not accord to others' experiences, I have to eat healthy for many other reasons, but that doesn't help my fibro).

Incidentally there actually is a functional fibromyalgia doc Soumya Chatterjee in Cleveland, Ohio, whilst Rangan Chatterjee AFAIK is not a fibromyalgia expert and looking at his suggestions does use the "common sense" approach that lifestyle makes a difference, but isn't functional in the deeper sense.

"Functional" is a US term for what seems to be mainly called 'naturopath' in the UK. You can look up and find lists of naturopaths all over the UK. There is a US fibro forum with fibromyalgia doctors in the US, but I don't think necessarily functional. Generally: A search for your area for either fibro or functional/naturopath often helps, and then asking at the desk or just trying them.

This forum as the name suggests is in the UK, but we have quite a few US members. And me in Germany (with other terms, but not many naturopaths that know their way around FM).

Previous threads on "functional medicine doctors" here have shown that those here (like me) who are using "complementary medicine" are trying & developing exercises and their combinations of supplements etc. themselves, thru suggestions of others on forums and the web as well as published protocols of functional medicine doctors like Jacob Teitelbaum (books, sometimes web).

You will find quite a few threads, esp. recently with a lot of detail of exercises & supps here. So this is a good place for the exchange of experiences.

[inpaino1 in reply to JayCeon]

Thank you. I live in the UK, not the US, so I am looking for UK resources, but it is very helpful to know that they are called naturopaths in the UK. This may help me get closer in my research. Very grateful.

[MaggieSylvie in reply to inpaino1]

Well, when I looked up "functional medicine doctors" I found the chiropractor I was going to at the time (in the UK). She was Norwegian and has recently returned. I also visited a naturopathic osteopath in the UK in the eighties. It was very diet-based, especially "no fries". I don't believe they are the same because things have changed since then. I'm dealing with enough, so don't want someone preaching diet at me; I've mostly been following a naturopathic diet since the eighties and I can't see my lovely chiropractor preaching at me about diet.

[JayCeon in reply to MaggieSylvie]

I stand corrected :-} - I just tried the same and searching for functional medicine or functional doctors works, plus names came up I'd already seen, so I just seem to have forgotten that that expression is also used...

[Roo1972 in reply to inpaino1]

My fibro has been really helped by myofascial release. It deals with the fascia that lie between the skin and muscles and is innervated ie has nerves running through it. It is incredibly gentle. When we first started even a light touch set of pain everywhere, like a pinball machine. I couldn't work, was at my wits end. I am now back in work and find that my flare ups are less frequent and last alot less time. It has taken a weekly session for a good few months to get to this place but it has really worked. It has also reduced what felt like constant 'fight or flight' and my digestion too (I was having problems swallowing). It wont be the right answer for everyone but for me, it was a better solution than medication. You can google the term and there are lots of practitioners. Not really well used in the NHS and when I said to my doctor that the NHS had written me off after 6 traditional physio appointments she agreed and said there simply isn't the resources to try these different approaches that may well work.

[Cazza2612]

I have been to see a good Chinese Doctor. I gave him all the information I could on my conditions and all the medications that I take and what my main concerns and problems are. He made me up special herbal medication tailored to me. He did some acupuncture under an infrared light and then finished with a massage to help drain the toxins out of my body. He said I would need 2 sessions a week for 3 weeks and 2 lots of the herbal medication, each tub lasts for 10 day. He seemed quite confident that he could help me so I will just have to wait and see how it all goes. It’s not cheap but I am prepared to try anything as I am in so much pain. The sessions are £50 each so that’s £300 for the 3 weeks. The special medication he makes is £70 for 10 days so two of these will be £140 So in total for the 3 week program it will cost £440 although he did say it would be cheaper if I pay it all up front so I am going to ask him what that cost will be. Obviously his program is individually tailored so some people might need more sessions and more medication. I have only had one session so far but I am confident it could help me. At present this is what he says I need but I might need more sessions as time goes on. I know it’s all quite expensive but I’ve got to the point where I just need not to be in so much pain and I would pay anything if it works. I will update you as my sessions go on as to how much it is helping me.

[inpaino1 in reply to Cazza2612]

Thank you. This is very helpful. I am extremely hopeful that after three weeks you will see significant improvements because that will bring hope to all of us in pain. If the sessions work well for you, please let me know in a few weeks, as I'd love to consult the Chinese doctor. I am in the same boat as you because I am so tired of living this way that I am willing to try anything. Sending you best wishes.

[JayCeon in reply to Cazza2612]

Hi Cazza: If I were you I would pull thru with it. As Chinese / complementary / private medicine goes (at least here in Germany) the prices are fair.

That said:

- I've spent a little, but not much, energy on going to a "real Chinese" doctor, the main reason being I haven't heard much success stories regarding fibromyalgia. Chinese researchers have been testing the various aspects of TCM (e.g. herbs/supps) for fibromyalgia in studies quite often recently and it fares quite well there. One question would be if "real Chinese" is transferrable to Europeans. Whilst one pain doc told me to go to a "real Chinese" acupuncturist, my GP (who does acupuncture too) said they wouldn't be able to use the big "real Chinese" needles on us, because 'we're different'.

If you'd've said the discount is only offered before the first session, I'd've recommended: don't. Now I'm not sure, because you haven't reported whether this first one has made any difference, only that you are confident it'll help....? The second reason being that my several trials of acupuncture and red light with fibromyalgia were all very harmful, and herbs for IBS pre-FM weren't helpful, also I can't tolerate quite a few herbs and drinking them warm burns my tongue (previous explanation: neurodermatitis). Now if/as you've tolerated the first session or even had some relief, I'd think it sensible to continue, but I think at those fair prices it might be a better bet not to pay the discount price, unless you are going to pull thru come what may (which was my stance at the beginning, having nothing else).

I can see a naturopath logic behind a belly massage getting the organs to work better, but I doubt it really holds, and I doubt even more that this can help midterm. I had an osteopath doing some "visceral therapy" as they call it on me, as well as lymph drainage once and my acupressurist also worked on my inner organs, which all may have helped a bit, but not much. What my acupressurist (who used quite a lot of TCM techniques) was brilliant for was to get all my local pains down to zero, so I can now carry on on my own using self-applied acupressure, massage pistol and stretching. But the aspiration of Chinese medicine would be to treat the "whole body system", which is also what she aspired. But she didn't manage any of that and I was there for 5 hours a week for over a year, and spent >800€/m on it, which my semi-private insurances paid for and was worth it because it increased my activity levels from 20% to 40%, my quality of life even more and also allowed me to work a bit, in case I'd've had to pay for it.

Which brings me to my next point to consider: I'd think he is someone with quite a deep understanding of how to treat the human body, but he can't know anything about this invisible chronic illness if he thinks he can make much of a difference in 3 weeks. I'd be very surprised if you had more than 10% improvement in those 3 weeks. Not only is the disease chronic and hard to influence with anything, the concept of all natural medicine is to work gently and slowly over a longer time. That said there were 3 symptoms ('thermostat', 'leg heaviness' and 'breathlessness') which my acupressurist pretty much healed with one treatment, and pretty sustainably. And one supp which improved 10 symptoms very noticeably and sustainably inside of 2-3 days. Also my self-applied acupressure works quickly on new pains & other symptoms that crop up, now the acupressurist has got the chronic ones down over a long period of time.

Actually I've got to a point where I can see that the journey is to find our own self-treatments more and more, using experts for help, but becoming independent of them as much as possible, rather than experts being able to heal us quickly. My other situation is that with my newest issues all my experts are at a loss anyway and the only way to continue is my own research about a likely new condition (MCAS - which interestingly seems to incorporate fibromyalgia symptoms).

I'm very interested to hear how your fare and wish you all the best with it. I think paying the discount might also be considered a motivational issue on both sides, so as I said, I'd probably pay it, if I'm sure I'll hold thru whatever. But I'd also at the same time note the progress you're making and sort of extrapolate it, whatever any expert believes.

[MaggieSylvie in reply to JayCeon]

The absolutely best help I got was from a myofascial release physiotherapist. They work on every part of the body and mine even got rid of a knot that had been caused years ago by a scar left when I had a chest drain. It is very gentle, and you learn to listen to your own body and do the stretches it asks for. After all the routes to a painfree life that I have taken, I can't recommend it highly enough.

[JayCeon in reply to MaggieSylvie]

Myofascial release I can definitely imagine working also. Mine worked on fasciae, but I don't think it was exactly that. Connective tissue massage in the clinic twice hurt while it was being done, but I felt newly born afterwards, that's also something I'd recommend trying (as all techniques, we just have to find the right one for us.)

[inpaino1 in reply to MaggieSylvie]

Thank you. Your response gives me a lot of hope. I will look into this.

[MaggieSylvie in reply to Cazza2612]

About ten years ago I went to Dr China and continued for over a year (I can't remember) but the company eventually had to close down. I believe they couldn't get enough customers, as it was expensive. Anyway, I had every treatment under the sun almost, including acupuncture. I felt that acupuncture didn't help me, but that was then. I think in my case it had a delayed action. For one thing, my migraines disappeared completely but that may have been because I reduced my hours at work. Nowadays, I don't complain of fibromyalgia because I have other injuries. I think the Chinese medicine is helpful but sometimes the doctors do things that are not helpful, like bouncing on my slightly painful knee, which caused it to be very painful and eventually I was diagnosed with osteoarthritis. Perhaps I could have gone on a bit longer with it if he hadn't done that. But in general, yes, good but pricey.

[Chrisbel]

been using Chinese medicine for 33 years, definitely helps, does not cure me but helps lessen the symptoms, breathing oxygen in a hyperbaric chamber under pressure helped the fatigue and got rid of the brain fog, changing my diet, to non inflammatory foods helped the pain and supplements helped with energy, so there are many ways to help.

[inpaino1 in reply to Chrisbel]

Thank you. I'd be very grateful if you have a good recommendation for a Chinese medicine doctor in the UK. Thanks.

[JayCeon in reply to inpaino1]

If you haven't yet, you might want to "Find a Practitioner" here atcm.co.uk and here rchm.co.uk.

[inpaino1 in reply to JayCeon]

Thank you. This is very helpful.

[Chrisbel in reply to inpaino1]

I live in Aberdeen in Scotland and my doctor’s name is Zong Fan Zho, or Fan as everyone calls him, I have been seeing him for 20 years for herbs and Accupuncture in relation to general health, and specifically for Fibro, and this has helped me manage Fibro without drugs. His phone no is 01224323276,

[inpaino1 in reply to Chrisbel]

Thank you, I am immensely grateful for the information and support.

[MaggieSylvie in reply to Chrisbel]

My Chinese doctor said in Chinese medicine there is a cure for everything, it's just that we haven't found all the cures yet.

[Chrisbel in reply to MaggieSylvie]

I agree, I think that there is no one pill solution to Fibro and have attacked it from several different directions, which has worked for me without western drugs and their side effects. Diet, supplements, physio, exercise and stretching, oxygen under pressure, meditation, Chinese herbs and acupuncture, CBD, and the occasional paracetamol.

[JayCeon in reply to Chrisbel]

I think the Chinese attitude meant is not the bit about attacking it from several different directions, which they obviously also do. It's meant in a more universal way that there really potentially is a cure even for something like fibromyalgia, and we will eventually find it. I'm glad if/when they add that we haven't found it yet.

But I don't subscribe to that point of view, because illness is part of the temporary nature of life. In effect it would imply we can find a cure for death. As I don't believe we can we also won't be able to find a complete cure for aging processes and so I doubt it's possible to find a cure for every disease there is.

The other aspect of "we haven't found all the cures yet" sounds hopeful, as if today it were only a case of looking for and finding cures for a few weeks, months, years, even for fibromyalgia. That stance may work as a placebo, but I prefer the stance of "radical acceptance" as maybe the ACT form of CBT uses and I know of several others who also find this more helpful.

[Jinty7]

Hi there I am in uk, I go to a medical herbalist

[inpaino1 in reply to Jinty7]

Thank you, has that helped with your symptoms?

[Hidden]

Interesting replies, but this is something that I get annoyed with. I have worked all my life. Paid my taxes and NI, but we cannot access any treatments without paying for private health care. Only access to pain pills, neuro blockers, opioids. Basically here's a prescription, go away and suffer in silence

[JayCeon in reply to Hidden]

I hear you, Spooky.

I find it helps to accept it like it is to a certain extent, by understanding why, that way I don't get angry. I understand it this way, I'd be interested if you can follow or not:

What helps me is to respect that most people do not think it worth it to have complementary medicine etc. paid for much by a state insurance, as it is not medically proven. Paying for it would make health insurance more expensive, which'd make wages more expensive, including the wages of health workers, with all the effect on the economy.

If I want them to pay for more treatments, I have to vote for parties that do this (which I do). But knowing it is as it is now means what's being payed in is not enough, so I'd take out an additional private insurance.

What would still make me angry is if the costs were high because health workers and health administrators are working ineffectively, e.g. laziness or bureaucracy, but only if I myself worked hard and effectively. If we compare our countries/mentalities to others, we're pretty well off, I'd think.

[MaggieSylvie in reply to Hidden]

What is worse, is that they don't look at the whole person and they don't treat them; they treat the symptoms.

[JayCeon in reply to MaggieSylvie]

Yes, that's the way way they learn it, unfortunately. Talked with my GP today about my allergologist yesterday. She was brilliant and to the point, but I felt completely rushed, like you girls n' guys often do. My GP comparing said he had some psychotherapy training and integrates that into the way he has learnt to listen to people. So my allergologist gave the ideas (essentially confirming my new additional self-diagnosis MCAS more and more) and then I preferred to discuss this more thoroughly with my GP....

[MaggieSylvie in reply to JayCeon]

It's funny, isn't it when we are able to self-diagnose and quickly get a confirmation from our specialist or doctor.

[Rosepetal60]

Hello, Functional Doctors seem to be few and far between. I’ve not tried them as all too far away from me. But up to Covid, I had been treated with Chinese Acupuncture from an English Acupuncturist who trained in China and in the U.K. He has 10 years training behind him and 40 years experience. Prior to seeing him, I had tried 4 other Acupuncturists. One was a medical Doctor who hadn’t in my opinion hadn’t much of a clue as how to treat my many health problems. And said as much in a report to my Gp at that time. So that first appointment was my last.. another was ok , but I felt he was out of his depth, another also seemed to be perplexed and decided I had a back problem. The worst one, at first seemed a possibility at one time but then, she decided to “treat” me with Electro Acupuncture and then left me unattended for well over an hour. I’m still suffering from that experience today. ( damage to a nerve /?/ in my groin) BUT the one I am with now, ( but haven’t seen since Covid) is in my opinion Brilliant. A true life saver for me. Worth every £ and more. I miss the treatment mega, but I’m still getting a tiny bit of a boost left from my “battery” of Acupuncture treatment . ( difficult to explain ) .

So as much as I have a high regard for Traditional Chinese Medicine. Finding a good / excellent Acupuncturist needs research.

Good questions to ask them would be . How many years of training ( 3 years is the very minimum) some Acupuncturists have an advanced level of training.

How many years experience have you had,

Will you be treating my body as a whole ?

Have you treated patients with fibromyalgia with some success, or words along those lines.

I have CFS/ME and various other health problems including a coccyx out of alignment through no fault of my own. ( best left unsaid)

There are a lot less Acupuncturists out there these days so you may find you have to travel a fair way to find the right one.

I traveled 40 miles. And looked forward to my treatment every time.

[JayCeon in reply to Rosepetal60]

"then left me unattended for well over an hour"

Ooh yes: that reminds me my sessions should've been 20 minutes and even these were strain & partly anguish. But one of the first times they'd forgotten "us" too (several cubicles - taskwork), so it was about 40 minutes I'd guess, didn't know at the time, and didn't know what was right. Also I've read since then good acupuncturists saying: I'll be in with you all the time, so that might also be something to ask for. Probably more expensive tho...

[inpaino1 in reply to Rosepetal60]

I am sorry to hear about the bad experiences, but am happy that you finally found the right resources. Thanks for sharing your experience - this is very helpful for me

[BlueTofu]

I used to have regular Osteopathy which helped greatly. However now I am on benefits and cannot afford to pay for anything. I previously bought Dr Rangan Chatterjee's The four pillar plan. Which is a functional medicine approach. However I find you have to be well enough to start to implement things.

Have IBS/reflux so pretty stuck with the best diet I can do. Physio aggravates things (NHS input, at least they got me a physical scan and ruled out other things). I've just started counselling through a charity. Have Curable app, hoping to do some journaling (arms and hands ache so restricted) to deal with any emotions contributing to being stuck and managing living with fibromyalgia.

Waiting on pain clinic.

I find having no purpose in life, and spending most of my time mitigating pain/ trying to sleep enough/doing basic housework and self care; makes it hard to make progress, even have space to risk having extra pain to gain only a theoretical improvement.

[JayCeon in reply to BlueTofu]

I've found that - at least now - I don't need any expert help. Youtube for exercises, stretching, acupressure, yoga nidra, you name it - has so many valuable resources for physio-type self-treatment. If I hadn't had my acupressure paid for, then that would have helped me quite a bit and it's all I need now.

Re. being well enough to implement things: I think baby steps in your own pace is always possible, not listening to what someone, even who knows about fibro, tells you. In the fibro clinic we got taught some Tai Chi: It hurt me, I was the only one who couldn't. But at home a while later I watched youtube videos and learnt you can even do it lying down, and I decided on shorter stints. I can do fast short movements, not long slow ones, so all my back yoga is in 20 second stints. Only my stretches have become longer, but starting short was nec.

I agree normal physio aggravates. I also have IBS & hyperacidity and have learnt to avoid triggers, but it was still possible to do a few months of gluten-free, but it didn't help. Now however I'm stuck with that plus Mediterranean diet due to lipids, plus low histamine due to MCAS, so I'm on raw veg, cabbage sorts and gluten-free muesli and bread, that's pretty much it, but I'm actually enjoying it, looking out for what I like (e.g. I've grown to love raw sweet potatoes).... Brilliant that you've got counselling now, I find that very helpful, like also my blog. Pain clinic I think might be good for people who haven't got the hang of self-care yet.

My purpose in life has become mainly self-care, and enjoying that, and once that's done enough, a little table tennis & making music if possible, and being there for others. About time I did it that way round, too...

[Rosepetal60 in reply to JayCeon]

Thank you for reminding me about YouTube, I did find it useful recently when recovering from a broken wrist and arm as watching the exercises helped to improve my movement.