I have been refused early ill health retirement by previous and current employer. Pension fund wants evidence that fibromyalgia and associated issues means I cannot work in my present job and in any other job now and forever. GPS say they cannot confirm this. Treatment up to date has been patchy and unsuccessful. Constant pain/ tiredness/ depression/ ‘fog’; intermittent anxiety; not very mobile (pre-existing mobility issue). Signed off work a year ago after collapse at work. . Diagnosed 20 years ago. Work supported application; accepts I cannot do job or any other they could offer me. Job was quite pressured. Anyone know where I can get help with the Appeal? Appeal Deadline is 29 June. Dismissal on incapacity grounds July/ August, if appeal is unsuccessful.
Thank you, Max
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Does your type of employment have trade unions? Failing that try CAB. A solicitor is likely to cost you a fair bit.Sorry I could not be more helpful cause I was chucked out of my job before diagnosis.
Apologies for long answer but it helps me to get it all out.... It see that it has now taken me nearly two hours to write, so I may as well post!
My union rep has been with me throughout and my current employer supported my application. It is the pension funds involved who will not release early retirement pension sums two years and seven years, respectively, ahead of my official retirement ages with former and current employers.
If I lose the Appeal and I am dismissed for incapacity by current employer, I will have to wait 2 years before I can access my main pension and a further 5-7 years to access the one from my current employers. - If my partner was not recently unemployed, I might have been able to hold out for two years but with that and the coronavirus situation things are difficult.
I have half pay until July (thanks to union rep and current furlough situation) but after that I cannot work and all the pay breaks for the virus will have ended. Our mortgage is not paid off and we were discussing selling if we had to do so but the virus has put paid to anything like that for the duration which time ... and so it circles.
I am worried about the Appeal because fibromyalgia means my recall is not strong and any stress increases pain and anxiety. My union rep and my employer are relying on medical expertise of my GP, local services and one specialist appointment.
As many of us know, and in my own case, understanding and assistance for fibromyalgia/ CFS has been patchy over the last twenty years and any recording of it even worse. Frustratingly, GPs have improved their support just as the virus situation has put a stop to any new investigations sought by this appeal, and any referred services are not in place for this reason.
When I seek advice from agencies, I often have to give detail about this condition and it’s effects to people who think it is short term or easily reversible and they find it too complex to understand or need to move on to the next enquiry. They assist and document accordingly - by which point, on receipt, I have not enough energy, memory or ability to dispute their points.
I am so stressed and pain levels are through the roof; my usual insomnia has been replaced by alternating panic and a weird drowsiness. Have worked all my life and pushed through pain and anxiety up until this last year because there was no other option. Have run out of gas and ability to cope through and with pain. You know - painful to sit, to stand, to walk. Carpal pain, jaw pain, neck pain, back pain, sciatic pain, foot pain, stomach pain. Sensitivity to medications. Painful if you eat; worse if you don’t. Can’t cope with any cold or some types of heat; can be overwhelmed by bright lights or competing, loud or sudden sounds. Hyper-vigilant or in a daze. Not taking in or retaining new information and not remembering the old because strategies - diary, post-it, rhymes, now useless.
- I always knew I could not keep my my job without constantly pushing through all of this but the pressures of the role increased over time too. So my anxiety and a hidden depression crept in over the last few years. (I am leaving aside some major family events too). I am worn out in a way that makes no sense and routinely jeopardises my ability to fight for early retirement and now to make this Appeal. I feel I need a fibromyalgia specialist... and no I cannot afford a private service 😔
There is a trade union called TULIP, which is for people who are disabled or have health problems. If you Google TULIP trade union it should come up for you. They might be able to give you some advice.
I was recently successful in being awarded the top level ill health retirement from my long term employer. I had my assessment with the pension funds doctor which I thought didn't go very well even though I had a good responce to ever question as well as 2 great supporting documents from both my GP and neurology consultant.
To aid my GP in putting his report together. He asked me to write a basic list for him to explain all my symptoms and how both the condition and medication affected me and included every symptom, and medication I was on and had ever tried. He said that this was very helpful to him as he could only normally do the report for the pension fund from looking back at basic notes on each appointment over the years which sometimes were very brief and also from any doctor at the practice. He said the report concentrated his mind on my particular condition and how it affected me. Also even though he said he found it hard to say I would never work again he did put that in his opinion it was more likely than not that I would never be able to hold down full time employment in the future.
Ask to see the GP report before it is sent to the pension fund which is your legal right so that you can agree it or ask for some tweaks to it. Your GP obviously can't tell any untruths but should be factual and give a professional opinion on your future.
Your union rep should have been able to tell you what to do next .but acas is the main body for anything work related if your depression is severe and on medication you should ask employer to make reasonable a judgements to your job to suit your illness under mental health but if your doctor thinks you won’t be able to work the union rep should have tried to get you early retirement through ill health but he doesn’t seem to have offered that help he should demotivate with your employer on your behalf .but a as would be the one to ask about tribunals and early retirement there very good get there number on google .
Yes. My rep has been with me all the way with my ill health retirement request. My workplace supported it as did the external Occ. Health advisor.
The Pension Funds say they want evidence of treatment and whether it was successful or not; that I might get better in the future and so be able to work.
I have not had much treatment but it was unsuccessful. I will lose my job before any more treatment can be put in place and evaluated. My GPs are now sending an email to ask for more time. If this is agreed, I will ask my Union rep if this means I will still be employed after my sick pay (half pay) ends on 13 July - This was actually an extension agreed by my employer as I have been signed of work since 23 May 2019. Previously, my rep has said they were within there rights to dismiss after July 13 as I will not be getting sick pay. He is supporting the Appeal but I want to know how to answer the questions. Whatever I sent before did not work.
Thank you. This is very helpful. I recognise the point about medical records. - Was surprised to find whilst having a scan for coeliac that I had had ‘a hysterectomy and ... ovarian cancer’!!! Hardly any of my medical history is on my records as far as I can tell due to various transfers from paper to electronic records.
I will have to be referred, assessed and reported on by four different services for my GPs to write a report by 29 June.
During the continuing coronavirus period. So they will not actually see me.
Previous treatment was patchy and unsuccessful and my memory and ability to make connections is impaired. but I do remember not being able to adequately communicate what this condition is like to GPs or specialists for example physiotherapists. I spoke to a GP this morning who says it should wait until I can actually be seen by practitioners. I will submit this request to work.
Does your employer have use of an occupational health specialist? I ask as these were the people that provided the evidence to my pension people when I took medical retirement at 45 with fibromyalgia. If they don’t you can see a specialist privately and get a report about how fibromyalgia affects you now in your job and that this will likely be the same for any job.
Yes they have. Sorry it is a bit complicated and it is hard for me to write and to keep thread of it. My early retirement needs to be approved by two pension holders.
For my current employer, 2010- present:
I was sent to see their external occupational health specialists several times from 2013?onwards. These specialists eventually recommended my working 4 days instead of 5 (from 2019). I collapsed in May 2019. There were issues outside of work but there was also the fact that at my organisation a 5 day week could be like a 6 day week so 4 was still 5 really. Occupational Health recommended and fully supported my early ill health retirement application after a full assessment. But the Pension Fund have refused the application. I have been signed off sick since my collapse. Both current HR and my union rep (and possibly the external Occupational Health team) were not expecting this. I will get my normal pension in 2027.
For my previous employer, 1984- 2006, the major Pension Fund holder:
Their in-house Occupational Health physician assessed me over the phone in February 2019 and refused to even recommend the application. In his opinion, my fibromyalgia is manageable within 18 months with exercise, psychotherapy and medication. I could then return to work that I did in 2006! At the very least:
my problems with exercise involves muscular/ spinal imbalance issues from childhood which have not been addressed and coping changed with ageing and with the fibromyalgia; various attempts at medication tried between 2000 and 2015 was unsuccessful and impacted on my stomach lining, my ability to work and to sleep so much so that CFS, coeliac disease and neurological issues are now in the mix. I have been paying for psychotherapy since 2017 because my local authority cannot pay for it. This will end if I lose my job as I cannot afford it otherwise. He did not take this into account. My GPs were asked to send new information to contradict his opinion in four days. I withheld consent for his report and now need to submit only new medical information to change his recommendation by July 31st and then there will be a decision. I will get my normal pension anyway in 2022 but I could not last the two years at work.
The Criteria used for ill health requires my local health authority medical practitioners to predict the future - which they cannot. Failing that they must to provide long term the type of health care services that they do not have resources for but cannot say outright that they have not, and it still might not equip me to work until I am 60 and 67 or ever.
I have to stop writing now and rest everything, sorry.
This is how I got Tier 1 ill-health retirement last year. I was initially sent to OH for assessment. I had diagnoses of chronic OA 5 years before & had some surgery. The OH doc was great & accepted I had fibro & cfs but couldn't recommend Tier 1 as GP refused to diagnose as it could "limit my options for treatment." I researched treatments & decided against them, going down the self-help route instead,, based on previous drug reactions. I felt very pressured by pension fund to accept drug treatment. I demanded GP referral to NHS pain management service. They diagnosed me over the phone so GP had no option but to put it on my notes & send report to OH who then issued a "Certificate of Permanent Incapacity for Work" for pension fund. It was such a relief but my symptoms were through the roof going through it. Union rep & manager were supportive in getting through the bureaucracy. Took 9 months from first request but was a huge relief to get it. Don't give up!
Thank you. Will not give up but exhausted and anxious as external situation has changed. The current virus situation that is making me anxious as my partner’s employment ended just before lockdown and he is not eligible for help, as unemployed just before lockdown. He is also in vulnerable categories due to age and health issues. On paper we can get by until end of May but ‘pay breaks’ are ending for bills and mortgage and my half pay ends soon.
My application for retirement began last year in August and involved occupational health, union rep, independent occupational health and HR staff, GPS and specialist opinion. The sticking point seems to be that there is successful treatment somewhere and that it has not been applied. Treatment I have received has not work; intermittent treatment has been patchy often as other health issues unaccounted for or not on records.
It has taken over two hours to write this reply on my phone btw because my cognitive abilities as well as physical ones are so frayed. I cannot adequately convey this condition on paper or in conversation in a way that covers the unpredictability or the exhaustion of continuous pain. In communication and in day to day life ... even without being at work, it feels like everything misfires and creates more effort and more pain as I try to put it right. I used to be so good with thinking and words, and it adds to the anxiety that now when it is so crucial, I can see that ability falling away.
Physically, I usually have to choose one or two actions a day and am in pain or wiped out. Assessors tended to focus on the fact that I did the one thing as a positive ie, keep doing it ... don’t stop. That just kept me repeatedly doing more even when it hurt and thinking that it must be my fault that it hurt. My partner cares for me, supports me, and works, and is older than me (four years off retirement himself).
Ironically, since my application, newer GPs have become engaged with the problem but cannot make the referral system to non-fibromyalgia specialists work fast enough. I saw one specialist team last summer - one-off, one stop appointment who simply referred me back to GP’s and local health services that could not cope in the first place. I have never seen a neurologist. My concern is despite the consensus that work is out if the question, early retirement is refused because no one knows that some specified or unspecified treatment may or may not work in the future. I am only 58. I need at least 2 more years for my main pension and seven more years for the current one... and even then I am at the mercy of medical development for relatively little understood condition - FMS with increasing appearance of co-comittant issues like CFS, coeliac, sciatica.
Sorry - got to lie down now as really hitting that tiredness wall ...and can feel muscles going ... thanks for being here to listen and hope this is helping other people too 🤞🏾
The issue for any salary based pension scheme will be the cost of providing a pension some years early, as well as any uplift in years served. Each year of service added, requires the scheme to allocate 40 times its value in capital to you. The cost is enormous. So an extra £1,000 in pension requires the scheme to set aside or invest £40,000 to cover it.
I have been through this too.
A better report on your health would be one from someone who has not treated you, but is an expert in their field and truly independent. Can you persuade your Union to commission it? Either now or as part of an appeals process later? It will carry far more weight. Typical cost is £3,500. I paid for mine myself, won the appeal and asked the scheme to reimburse me. They did so rather than face a complaint to the Pensions Regulator. My consultant at hospital recommended the independent consultant for the report. He examined me and got all my records.
Do you get any Daily Living or Mobility PIP? The assessor’s report would also help you, if you do.
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