Recording PIP assessment : Hi, I’ve... - Fibromyalgia Acti...

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Recording PIP assessment

Lulubee
Lulubee

Hi, I’ve informed them that I want to record my face to face assessment. My question is how? Can I bring 2 cheap digital dictaphones that would connect to a computer? Looking for cassette types, they can only record 30 minutes!! Anyone got any advice? Tia x

63 Replies
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desquinn
desquinnAdministrator

No it has to be a professional recording device

skit
skit
in reply to desquinn

Have they changed the rules Des I was allowed two identical 'walkman' type devices and my hubby carried them in and we used C90 tapes. One tape was left with the assessor and we kept one and the walkmen of course.

rosewine
rosewine
in reply to desquinn

desquinn I too was allowed to use two identical tape recorders so could you confirm the rules have changed and where I can view it as I like to keep up to date with these things. Assessor kept one set of tapes and I had the other. Must admit the quality was poor so glad I didn't have to use them in evidence.x

desquinn
desquinnAdministrator
in reply to rosewine

I may be mistaken as not looked at rules in a while. But two copies in a device similar to a police recording for an interview. Guess it has been relaxed.

rosewine
rosewine
in reply to desquinn

@Desquinn thanks. I sometimes try to help others and didn't want to give them the wrong advice. I was amazed when I had my assessment that they would accept the cheap recordings and thought the rules might have been tightened up as my assessment was a couple of years back.x

desquinn
desquinnAdministrator
in reply to rosewine

Rules from capita and pip can be found here: capita-pip.co.uk/en/assessm...

They have relaxed the device requirements but the rest of the process is pretty much the same. Worth checking with other benefit processes in their rules.

Recording your PIP assessment sounds good but can work against you, carrying in your equipment and setting it up will demonstrate to the assessor your abilities in a physical and mental abilities. Here are some tips information.

Firstly filling in the application form giving as much detail how the applicants illnesses, disability affect their daily lives in relation to the PIP descriptors. Suppling up to date medical and supportive evidence that will comfirm you abilities to or not meet the PIP descriptors. Keep copies of any information documents reports evidence you send to DWP as sometimes they get lost or mislaid. On or at your acessment if you need or use aids use them don’t just give yes or no answers let the acessor re ask the questions to allow you to answer describing why you can or cannot do the descriptors being decused, in reference to the physical examination do not do any movements that cause you pain discomfort or aggregate your condition. Be aware of the memory games they play being able to remember things from your past will indicate to the acessor your mental state even though your just talking about things which have nothing to do with the current part of the acessment. Be aware there are CCVTs outside and in and around the the acessment center, the acessor know the distances from the nearest car parks, bus stop waiting rooms to their acessment office so if yo can walk from the bus stop or car park or easily from the waiting room to the office these distances will be noted and recorded. And lastly having had your Face to a Face acessment about a week afterwards ring DWPmand request a copy of your acessment report which takes about 14 days to arrive one requested. On receiving it you can and should be able to work out what your award may, should be as the decmakers at DWP usually go with the acessment report, but you still have to wait for the official award letter notification. If it’s not what you expect then having the report early has given you time to prepare starments ready for submission for an MR which has to be made with 30 days of receding the award letter can be done by phone but best followed up by a postal request.

Jamie1965
Jamie1965
in reply to Farmerboy

I just asked for my report 2 years after I had my assessment as another member stated it would help me when filling in my review and yes they do time you she said that she witnessed me walking 10 yards in 15 seconds and that I was able to get down on the floor and stand up unaided wow that never happened but she did say that I fell outside the assessment centre which I never told her but I guess they saw it on the cctv they are very sneaky why does it always feel like a trial like you have done something wrong when they are meant to be there to help thous that need it. I understand that people abuse the system my neighbour for one nothing wrong with him at all just does not want to work he was getting all the sickness benefits under the sun until last year he is at court for appeal next week and I bet he gets it all back he travels all over the world sings on stage and always running around but yet he gets away with it while people like us suffer the consequences of their actions they think one is a fraud we must all be.

rainbow58
rainbow58
in reply to Jamie1965

i know of people like that-claim they are disabled but have no problems doing anything.-actually work on the side.Its those the DWP want to clamp down on not us who are genuinely disabled.

The assessors lie thru their b ack teeth-mine claimed that he "observed me sort through papers laid out on the floor from a seated position."which was utter crap-he could not have seen me walk to the centre as i approached from the opposite side of the building to where he was-on first floor -he did not see me walk more than a couple of metres in the building -he walked ahead of me in to the room so unless he had eyes in the back of his head he only saw me walk a couple of metres to the chair.claimed i could walk 250 metres no problem-i have arthritis in hips and knees and on a bad day cant walk to my bathroom,all aids used were totally ignored.

Jamie1965
Jamie1965
in reply to rainbow58

I got enhanced on both elements but the assessment stated need to be reviewed in 3 years as could get well I could not believe I have several conditions none of which are curable and this was a nurse I was shocked what I was reading and until ajay575 said about the report I would not have thought to ask for one she stated we have a roast Sunday dinner every week but we never have one as my partner is west India and will not eat roast dinner so we have rice and peas etc he laughed when he read it he said it sounds like they have the report mixed up with someone else she even declared that my work have put soft ware on my computer to help with dyslexia but they have only just been given the grant from access to work to do that yet my assessment was 2017 unbelievable I will be asking for my report straightaway when I get review I also read on the gov website on pip rules that you can request to read the report as they write it so that if anything needs to be changed can do it there and then so I am gonna screen print it and if I have to have another f2f will bring it with me high lighted and tell them I want my partner to read it and make sure that she or he does not make any mistakes

Vivalaviv
Vivalaviv
in reply to Jamie1965

You can actually be there when they write the report ? When did that happen ?

Vivalaviv
Vivalaviv
in reply to Vivalaviv

Been thru the pip rules online & i cant find anything that says that. Can you direct me to the right place ? Thx

Bananas5
Bananas5
in reply to rainbow58

It is a minuscule number and barely worth bothering rainbow. Much propaganda has been circulated...and people believe the fraudulent numbers are much much higher.

Not everyone awarded nil points has had lies told about their assessment

FoggyMoggy
FoggyMoggy
in reply to Bananas5

To Bananas5 and rainbow58.

Nobody knows another circumstances for claiming PIP because the majority of disabilities like Fibro are invisible!! I am appalled that anyone on this forum would not realise that. Someone's health and restrictions is private and they would tell you their private circumstances because...? So let's have less judging of others who may be fellow FM/ME sufferers or people with MH problems on a better day. And nobody should report them unless 100% sure because that could be you or I. 96% of calls to those lines are malicious, so let's concentrate on getting people the millions of benefits they deserve and that go unclaimed

Ajay575
Ajay575
in reply to FoggyMoggy

Hear hear I thought I would never see the day bananas5 getting a telling off hear hear

Bananas5
Bananas5
in reply to Ajay575

Oh I've had my share of telling offs!!! Even had restrictions many years ago.

My reply was purely to rainbow who said and I quote......i know of people like that-claim they are disabled but have no problems doing anything.-actually work on the side.Its those the DWP want to clamp down on not us who are genuinely disabled.

FoggyMoggy
FoggyMoggy
in reply to Bananas5

Yes I saw both your replies but I tagged you both because I disagreed with you both for reasons stated above. I have a problem too with the 'genuine' word (and I know it wasn't you using it) but it implies there's an awful lot of people who aren't when in truth there are an awful lot of people needing benefits who are getting them stopped in this most cruel of regimes. My issue with you you Bananas was asking Rainbow to report something when 96% of reported calls are false or malicious. Just saying'!!

Bananas5
Bananas5
in reply to FoggyMoggy

That's fine

I hear so many times members here and elsewhere saying they know someone cheating the system. I try to point out what DWP would like them to do in the hope it will stop and make them think twice.

Unfortunately far too many believe the propaganda

x

FoggyMoggy
FoggyMoggy
in reply to Bananas5

Very true Bananas5. The propaganda is vicious. Have a good evening anyway :) x

FoggyMoggy
FoggyMoggy
in reply to Ajay575

Glad it's not just me!

why did you not include Jamie1955 in your post?He/She stated their neighbour abused the system.Its not about claiming PIP if genuinely disabled it was the person working whilst claiming incapacity benefit.

rainbow58 because the clue is in my name - I am foggy and can't keep track of everyone who said what and when. I could only keep the two comments in my head that you and bananas said. I am not saying there isn't ANY fraud but there's always fraud in any system and it is low as it gets for benefits fraud. AND there are people to deal with it. It's just been blown out of any proportion and you and (@Jamie1955 who hasn't come up in list of names anyway) should be spending your energy in helping all those who've been wrongly knocked off benefits, not the tiny few who may have got more. But as I say I am dead against people reporting people without knowing a person's full circumstances and who does? On a better day I look perfectly OK and well, even if I'm feeling s**t inside. Only my closest family and friends and my GP etc know the real circumstances of my conditions and I'm a bit exasperated that here we are in a forum for people with invisible illnesses and people are STILL coming out with the usual diatribes and benefits bashing >:(

As a blue badge user with mobility issues and use a scooter, often see other badge users walk away with no aids or visable impairment, so hidden disabilities or shopping on behalf of the badge holder but using their badge???

The point is you don't know if their disabilities are hidden. Most disabilities are in fact hidden and that's why I've just got myself a sunflower lanyard and ribbon as this denotes someone has an invisible disability and more and more people are recognising it e.g. Sainsbury's and other big retailers as well as public transport operators. But why wouldn't you as a disabled person give other disabled people the benefit of the doubt? There was a woman talking at length on the radio the other day, one of whose sons had autism and think the other child had an invisible disability too and she reported the horrors that she has to grow through to explain about her children just because people assume she's using disabled parking spaces because she has children. Nobody should abuse the parking space but assume the best in people and their reasons being legitimate and not the worst

Ajay575
Ajay575
in reply to Farmerboy

You should not judge, they have a badge

Farmerboy
Farmerboy
in reply to Ajay575

I am not judging just an honest observation.

Farmerboy
Farmerboy
in reply to Ajay575

The observation is not judging the person, are they using the badge on behalf of the badge holder to avoid parking charges to run errons???

Ajay575
Ajay575
in reply to Farmerboy

Why would you think that though that is judgeing they have a badge we will agree to disagree on this one

Farmerboy
Farmerboy
in reply to Ajay575

Unless you see the photo on the badge then and only then can you be sure, I have spoken with badge holders of several years and the misunderstanding on the correct use of the badge is unbelievable. They either don't read the information booklet that comes with their badge or make it up to suit their needs.

Ajay575
Ajay575
in reply to Farmerboy

No need for a photo if someone misused it they will lose it, it is fine you may get the odd one slip the net that's all ,still saying your judgeing ,example I walk from car to supermarket, time i get round supermarket struggle to get to car or get out car on way home ,at supermarket i can walk a bit better going in ,so you would judge me ?,there are so many people who are entitlement to badge with invisible illnesses also

Lima6MCT
Lima6MCT
in reply to Bananas5

Or you get someone reporting you for vindictive, reasons as they have their own agenda and leave the person they reported at the wrong end of a fraud investigation.

It happened to my friend who has a very rare medical condition and she was left without her benefits and the stress completely floored her. It caused her untold distress which had an adverse effect on her health as it dragged on for months. She eventually got it sorted out and was cleared of wrongdoing.

Farmerboy
Farmerboy
in reply to rainbow58

No he didn’t personally watch you the CCTV watch you he just tapped into the recording of your coming and going.

Farmerboy
Farmerboy
in reply to rainbow58

Report them, don't moan on this fourm they are theives, cheats.

Farmerboy
Farmerboy
in reply to Jamie1965

The person you mention need reporting it can be done anonymously on line easy to do and yes they do get checked out the more information you can give the better, name, address , benefits they are claiming, they are stealing

Jamie1965
Jamie1965
in reply to Farmerboy

Problem is he has a lot of young lads always at his property smoking and selling drugs the landlord know but have done nothing police have let him go loads of times and I have to live next to him don’t want to have aggressiveness from them I am hoping that he has to show his passport when he goes to appeal cause they will see all the holidays he has taken in the last 2 years alone he is even on YouTube kick boxing in Thailand last year but he said he has told them he can’t stand or sit for king due to pain and his doctor has backed him up which is even worse there is nothing wrong with him I told him why don’t you just get a job he said why should he and started laughing the post man said he should do what he is doing and get his money on the side it made me so mad I can hardly walk in and out of hospital on reg basis and still work part time and pay tax I just wish someone else would do it that way I know they cannot turn on me when he gets charged with fraud

Bananas5
Bananas5
in reply to Farmerboy

My reply was to rainbow as she seamed to know people cheating.

You can get a dictaphone that doesn't need mini cassette, it records onto the device and you can transfer it to another device. I have a Philips one and h I bought it from Argos on offer for around £20 for my son to use at his special school. Or you could use voice recorder on your smartphone if you have one, then easily transfer a copy to a USB flash drive to send to DWP as their copy.

I recorded my PIP assessment using my Hudl Tablet so I had the whole visual, as well as Audio. I just put it on charge in the corner of the room facing me and the assessor. You could do that with a smart phone too 😁

Farmerboy
Farmerboy
in reply to Claire133

Sorry to let the wind out of your sails but your idea of using a dictaphone do not meet DWP recording criteria. You must be able to record two identical copies of the assessment voice only no filming and give a copy to the assessor immediately after your assessment. The disc or tape then has to be professionally transcribed if the evidence is to be submitted, used as evidence in a MR or tribunal hearing. Any covert recording if discovered during the assessment will bring the assessment to an immediate end and a report submitted of your conduct. Plus any covert recording will not and is not accepted as evidence in MRs or Tribunal hearings.

Claire133
Claire133
in reply to Farmerboy

No problem, you haven't knocked the wind out of my sails, and I didn't have the idea to use a dictaphone, it was the lady's idea who is asking for ideas on dictaphones. If you'd like to reread, she was talking about dictaphones with mini cassettes, and I was explaining to her that you can buy dictaphones that don't need cassettes.

As I said in my post, my son has a dictaphone for special school....I've never used one for PIP assessment....my kid is selective mute and uses it to let his teachers hear answers!

As I said in my post, I used 'a tablet' to record the assessment with video and audio. The assessors are fraudulent and lie about people, which is exactly what he did to me, and I have him on camera saying one thing then writing another, saying I had excellent grip in my right hand when picking up my coffee and using my crutches in my right hand.......when my right arm was in a splint, taped, and in a sling as my tendons had been ripped.....bare liars committing fraud. I couldn't care less about 'their rules' of asking permission, they don't ask anyone's permission when they lie about disabled people, and their premeditated 'fraud' to thousands of people in the UK is not only cruel, its unlawful.

I won a disability legal case 4 years ago for £850,000 specialist education for one of my children, and i used 3 hours of video recording of assessment, and I paid for a lie detector test because my local authority tried to commit fraud too. The 3 SENDIST Judges were more than happy for me to submit both pieces as evidence as long as I have a copy to the other party.

With regards to me videoing my PIP assessment, I discussed it with the DWP on the phone before hand, and they told me it was ok to do so and that I should tell the assessor in advance.....whoops it slipped my mind!

WF2k
WF2k
in reply to Claire133

Wow, you sound pretty determined and strong! I'll have to come to you for tips lol.

I recorded my assessment in April with permission but the assessor still lied and contradicted himself in the report, he's changed an award that was mainly based on my mental health with 8 points in moving around, I had 18 points in each to an awarded that is now about my physical health and he only gave me 8 points in each. I'm currently waiting for the decision letter. It's not about the fact he's dropped my money, I can cope, it's the fact he's called me, my Son, my previous GP, the previous assessor and a psychiatrist liars. I was so annoyed for weeks and it's affected my health, also I find it a tad daft that they expect people with MH problems to sit there and fully explain how our illnesses affect us when we find it very hard to speak to people. I wish I could show people both my previous and current reports so they could see the difference between them.

Vivalaviv
Vivalaviv
in reply to Claire133

So really all those rules they state on the web-site can be over- looked in court. Interesting. Seems its just another way DWP intimidates disabled people . Getting us to acquire out dated equipment at our own expense & then be penalised for having the ability to use it.

When you think a crime is being committed do you really need to follow rules set out by the perpetrator designed to make it difficult to catch them ?

Next assessment iam using my phone - covertly. As long as i can produce a copy to give to the other party in court thats all thats required.

Thx Claire

You're supposed to ask Capita's permission & (I think) use their recording equipment so two tapes are made of it. My daughter took notes during my assessment but we also had my mobile phone recording the 90 minutes so she could write them up more in depth...

Farmerboy
Farmerboy
in reply to trudym

Lucky you didn’t get found out doing a covert recording. The evidence you have collected is for your own use and is not allowed or accepted as evidence at MRs or tribunal hearings.

trudym
trudym
in reply to Farmerboy

Yeah my recording was to make notes of word for word said, which will no doubt be the opposite of what they write in their report... as per always in my case. We told the assessor we would be taking notes on it too

WF2k
WF2k
in reply to trudym

They don't supply recording equipment for PIP but I think they do for ESA, not sure if they supply it for home visits though or if you have to buy your own. I did mine with two tape recorders from Argos.

Hi Lulubee,

When my sister was critically ill almost 4 years ago, she’d been in an induced comma for a while and for the first couple of weeks no one was giving us any answers to what had happened, she’d only gone into hospital with a water infection.

So basically one of the Doctors had arranged a meeting with us, however I knew it would be hard to take everything he said so I asked the doctor could I record his chat on my phone, he said it was ok, so I just recorded on my phone , it was a 48 min conversation and all recorded fine , we even played it back to my sister 6 months later when she was awake and due to come home to explain to her how bad things had been.

Good luck with everything.

Thanks all! I was thinking have two cheap dictaphones and give one to the assessor at the end with the usb lead and keep one. I will get my partner/carer to help and set them up! I’m hoping this will be ok! Thanks for the advice re CCTV etc that’s useful to know!

Farmerboy
Farmerboy
in reply to Lulubee

Ask the assessment company if the use of such equipment is allowed and acceptable to use for recording your assessment

Hi Lulubee.

I had a friend come with, & he used a mini-disc recorder. Using brand new-unused mini discs. This was for my PIP.

They do say that you should use a standard cassette recorder x2, as 2 copies need to be made simultaneously. Tapes must be new,unused & in their wrappers. Not sure about the use of a dictaphone. I was told that I couldn't use one. But maybe if you're feeding it straight into another recording device.

As mentioned by someone else. You don't want to be seen to be more able than you are. So having someone with you really does help. You can phone them and ask,although I have found them vague & contradictory.

All the best.

Peace

To record officially you need permission and you will need to make two simultaneous recordings, on new C sized tapes from sealed packaging. I bought 2 cheap recorders from Argos and used those for my husband's assessment.

They don't allow recordings on smartphones and they can stop the assessment if you record without permission. I don't think they allow dictaphones either.

Reading down this post I am shocked at some of the attitudes and judgments about others,, I doubt we would know much about the problems others are facing with their health.

Kitty100
Kitty100
in reply to RayB

I agree ppl should not be so judgemental

Farmerboy
Farmerboy
in reply to RayB

Please explain more,

Bananas5
Bananas5
in reply to Farmerboy

I think it was Jamie1965 who made the first comment about people getting un entitled benefits which was fueled by rainbow. Then it escalated.

No one has the right to judge another person no matter what they think they know

x

Farmerboy
Farmerboy
in reply to Bananas5

If you or I know of persons claiming or maybe claiming a benefits wrongly surly you me should report them and if everything is above board then you can rest easy in the knowledge that you have done your not to help prevent fraud. Remember wrongly claiming benefits your not entitled to is stealing even if you been the money anyway two wrongs don’t make a right. It’s a cruel tough world we live in .

RayB
RayB
in reply to Farmerboy

Really?

Bananas5
Bananas5
in reply to RayB

You will rarely, if ever, find a disabled or chronically sick person trying to claim benefits.

People claim for children they don't have. War Widow's pension when they are either remarried or cohabiting. The rules have now changed for that.

But yes it happens

x

RayB
RayB
in reply to Bananas5

With respect, much of your contention would seem to be rare or isolated events,, most of which have been repeatedly regurgitated by DWP,, yet it is used on a ongoing basis to tread disabled people into the ground and gain support by "Responsble Citizens"

New Labour were responsible for something they affectionately called "Spin" I contest this situation remains while the terminology would better be called lies and propaganda,, perhaps Statistics and Advertising are terms more acceptable to DWP.

RayB
RayB
in reply to Bananas5

I wonder just how many people with conditions that are variable and not obvious to others,, Fibro included; have been reported by "An honest Citizen doing there duty" and as a result someone has suffered a cruel and unnecessary punishment, put throuh a very stressfull time and situation. Not only by "instantly" having there income shut of but having to justify themselves once again in a heavily weighted system that in against the individual. Probably with health further deterioating as a result. Perhaps driving them as far as taking there own life,, one cannot rule it out today!

I think we all need to think long and hard before we go putting our noses into the affairs of others or advising others acording to our own thoughts as "Responsible Citizens"

At present ones health matters are still private matters!

I covertly recorded mine. I'm saying this with a caveat - if they catch you doing it though your assessment could be stopped. I have done a lot of enquiries about this and it's not illegal to do it for your own use. It was easy to do on my phone but that's why i emphasised assessment could be stopped if caught doing it. I didn't have to use mine but it gave me confidence knowing that I proof if went to appeal. I was going to do transcripts if it went to appeal but in the end it didn't need to. There was one person whose cover trecording was admissible at the tribunal

I recorded my last assessment with two cassette recorders that I purchased from Argos. I will add that it doesn't stop them from lying, my report was full of discrepancies and contradictions, it does however give you proof about what was said in the assessment though.

Thanks for all your advice. I ended up buying 2 cheap cassette recorders (I didn’t know they still made them) and they were happy with that! The assessor did say at the end they thought it was an odd rule given that everything is digital now!

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