Third failed transfer - looking for successtories and tips

[yellow_cake]

Hi all!

I apologize in advance for my long post.

Started IVF around 1 year ago after 2 years of trying on our own (not a single plus), the first round resulted in 1 fresh embryo transfer and 1 frozen embryo transfer with a blastocyst, both with negative results and bleeding long before the actual testday.

We did our second IVF in summer that resulted in 6 frozen blastocysts, which made me really happy. After a long pause due to thyroid-issues, we didn't do the first transfer from this batch of blastocysts until a month ago. Unfortunately that ended in a negative testresult as well (but I didn't get my period until a week after the testresult, so at least I got a chance to do a pregnancytest)

The problem seems to be that nothing sticks. From the clinics in the country where we are located, we only get the "unexplained infertility"-diagnosis, nothing seems wrong according to them, but at the same time there are no possibilities there to do PGTA, investigations on the uterus microbiome environment or immunological factors, etc. They are not even informing us on the thickness of the lining, what grades the blastocysts have or my progesteronlevels, and they don't want to change anything for my next transfer, which I find very frustrating to be honest...

I have been in contact with a private doctor where I made some tests. The levels of NK-cells came out 18% and he was concerned since my TSH-levels have varied very much from 0.01 to 4.7. (Tests haven't showed positive on the TPO though) So I am now taking thyroid-medicine and he has also recommended me intralipids before the next transfer as well as a much more regular TSH-checkups. I am very grateful for this doctor that I'm going to on the side of the regular IVF-clinic.

I am looking forward to try something new, like trying intralipid because I don't want to "waste" my 5 remaining blastocysts if the issue seems to be something else than the quality of the embryos and I want to do everything in my power to make sure that the embryos are getting the optimal environment once transferred. Do you have any other tips that I can investigate on my own?

And is there anyone out there who can relate or would just mind share some positive successtories after several failed transfers or just give me some positive words? I am trying to keep a positive mindset but sometimes (like now) my mind just spins a lot and I am getting really worried and stressed inside.

[Wuhu85]

Oh I am very sorry for your losses. I had two not succesful transfers and I am changing clinics. Transfering not tested embryos are just very costly and a big psychical load to deal with. So I am changing clinics with the regular approach. I also did immunological testing and I highly recommend to do it with a specialist. I had also uterine NK cells which came back a bit lower but within the tolerance and the clinics wanted to prescribe me steroids so blind treatment is not always worth it. Also you can check for the KIR AA with HLA-C genotypes. I had most of results normal so really the problem is most probably not tested embryos and not good quality ones or bad performed transfer.

[yellow_cake in reply to Wuhu85]

Thank you so much for answering me back! Yes, it is indeed very costly on an emotional level when the embryos aren't tested, not to mention all the time that is used for transferring embryos that might not even be normal. Oh wow, I never heard of the KIR AA HLA-C genotypes, I will definitely check it out. Thank you so much for this input! I hope everything will go well for you after changing the clinic!

[HelzBelzUK]

I get your frustrations. I felt the same with my NHS clinic so we moved abroad. Would you consider moving your embryos abroad and doing a new transfer protocol with different clinic?

Have you had a thrombophyllia screen? Vaginal microbiome swab?

A hysteroscopy could be helpful although you’d probably have to pay private and they’re around £2k.

Dr V at Fertilysis is amazing. They’re based in Athens but we’ve used them lots for investigations (our clinic is also in Athens). Wishing you lots of luck xx

[yellow_cake in reply to HelzBelzUK]

Oh thank you so much for your reply and all the info, it is so much appreciated! Ok, that sounds amazing! May I ask where in the process you are now with the clinic in Athens? Moving abroad has crossed my mind a couple of times, but I'm not sure if it is possible to move my frozen embryos from the clinic I am currently at to another clinic. I haven't asked them though.

I haven't had a thrombophyllia screen, but my private doctor prescribed me a mild sort of aspirin medication that stops potential bloodclots in the uterus. Maybe blood clots is the same as thrombophyllia then? I visited Fertilysis homepage after I read your answer here and applied for the microbiome-tests that will be sent to me, so thank you so much for the input!

[HelzBelzUK in reply to yellow_cake]

Hey xx

you’re welcome xx

My friend moved her embryos from Dublin to our clinic in Athens so it is possible. They’re your embryos.. you’re entitled to move them where ever you want.

A thrombophyllia screen looks at how sticky your blood is so you may need something more than aspirin. Our clinic puts everyone on clexane from 5 days before transfer right up until 10 weeks if the test is positive x

We’ve had a cycle in Athens just before Christmas and we’re heading back end of March for one more cycle with pgta x We’ve got one complex low level mosaic frozen so hoping for a euploid xx

[yellow_cake in reply to HelzBelzUK]

Thank you for saying that, if feels like I have no idea what I can or cannot do here. But it sounds reasonable, they are our embryos so you're right, it's our decision.

Oh, ok clexane I never heard of, will check it out!

Ok, then I will push my thumbs for you and hope the next cycle will be your cycle and that you will get all you wish for!

[HelzBelzUK in reply to yellow_cake]

Thank you so much I appreciate that xx

U.K. clinics don’t tell you anything so you really have to have the confidence to advocate for yourself xx

Wishing you lots of luck moving forward

[PinkPanther1234]

I'm sorry you have not had success yet. I remember feeling exactly the same and done the similar investigations. It sounds as though regularly checking your thyroid is a great idea. Intralipids sounds good too and maybe ask about steroids as an idea. I also had bleeding before test day on multiple occasions, so I insisted on progesterone testing and was on a lot of progesterone. I would probably suggest ERA too. There are mixed opinions on it, but based on my personal experience it was well worth it. Best of luck, you will get there in the end x

[yellow_cake in reply to PinkPanther1234]

Thank you tons for replying! Such good inputs! I asked about steroids and my (private) doctor suggested to see that as the next step in case the intralipids would not be enough. I think that is a great thing though and I read about a lot of people that got helped after that. May I ask how much progesterone you had? I got prescribed cyclogest 2 times a day, but maybe that isn't enough now that you mention it, I will bring that up with the doctor. Thank you! Sounds amazing that ERA has been helpful! I'm not that familiar with it but will surely look it up. And thank you so much for your wishes!

[PinkPanther1234 in reply to yellow_cake]

I had 3 x Utrogestan pessaries and 1 x Lubion injection daily.

My ERA results were post receptive. Using the results from that on my next transfer (which was my 5th transfer), I had success. I really feel it made a difference for me, along with the increased progesterone, and immune suppressants. I was on blood thinners also. I hope the next transfer is your lucky one. X

[yellow_cake in reply to PinkPanther1234]

Oh wow that is just amazing, congratulations!! I appreciate you sharing this and I will ask the doctor about the level of progesterone and what should be required. I have had bleedings days before my period so something tells me that the level is too low overall.

[Terrierlover123]

Hi lovely.

Firstly, I am so sorry to hear of your challenges and the sadness and pain this is causing you. I am not sure I have many words of advice but if close to London, there is a fantastic private clinic who I know have an amazing reputation who I am currently with. If you are willing to pay privately and want to pursue them, let me know. Wishing you good health and answers for you so your dream can come true x

[yellow_cake in reply to Terrierlover123]

Thank you so much for your answer! It means so much! I am not in the UK but if you wouldn't mind sharing the clinics name I am all ears, there might be a time where IVF abroad would be the next step for us. I wish you the very best on your journey as well!

[Terrierlover123]

Of course. I will private message you as I am not sure I can post it publically.

[Alissaxxy]

I had secondary infertility that turned out to be autoimmune, and I got naturally pregnant when I was taking cortisone for an unrelated autoimmune issue. If your natural killer cells are high, I'd test for ANA (antinuclear antibodies) - a GP should be able to do this - and if it's positive, take Prednisone. I took this and other immunosuppressants for the first trimester (hydroxychloroquine throughout the pregnancy). In addition, even if you can't do a microbiome test like EMMA I'd say take vaginal probiotics (lactobacillus) as this surely can't hurt. Good luck!

[yellow_cake in reply to Alissaxxy]

Oh wow that's amazing to hear! Congratulations and thank you for sharing this! And your inputs are so much appreciated! The only information I got was that my NK-cells were 18%, which was said to be a bit on the higher side, but I don't really have anything to go on apart from that. I will remember the ANA so that I can bring that up with the doctor. May I ask if Prednisone did give any sideeffects? I'm a bit worried about that part, but maybe I shouldn't. And also, would you recommend any type of brand regarding the vaginal probiotics? I am thinking of ordering microbiome-tests from fertilysis so that I know if there is something I need to address, even if it is quite expensive.

[Lmfx]

I’m sorry for your experiences. An uncommunicative clinic makes the experience so much more frustrating. We've recently had success on our 6th transfer. It’s been a long journey for us but improved results after following advice from ‘it starts with the egg’ - the audio book is quite good. Whether that made all the difference, I’m not sure but it was helpful to go through all the potential elements and understand them in detail. We were always unexplained and had additional tests abroad with nothing specific coming up and decided perhaps the embryos weren’t good. I supplemented to improve my lining although it was always ‘just thick enough’, it improved in thickness each time we tried. It starts with the egg made me realise testing embryos also isn’t always the best option either. I wish you all the best with your next steps.

[yellow_cake in reply to Lmfx]

Firstly I want to say congratulations on your success, that is just amazing to hear! I really appreciate you sharing this, it makes me happy for you and also adds hope on our own journey. Indeed, it is very frustrating when there is obviously so much to explore when it comes to infertility. I actually bough the book a few years ago and started to follow what was said, I also found it really helpful even though we still are facing issues. I always thought testing the embryos was an overall good thing to do, could you remind me what the drawbacks with testings are, just for me to understand and hopefully make some informed decisions later on?

[Lmfx in reply to yellow_cake]

Thank you so much. Yea it’s a bit of a minefield. The book helped me realise my supplements were no where near the optimum levels so I took a brand recommended on the website plus some extras and my results were better after this.

The main point made on embryo testing is that it seems to have now been proven to destroy many embryos that go on to make healthy babies. So depending on your circumstances it may be worth not testing. I think if you google it you’ll get more info from recent studies

[yellow_cake in reply to Lmfx]

Oh ok that doesn't sound too well. Thank you for telling me, I will google it more before considering it.

[Whatwillbewillbe_]

I am very sorry for your losses. A few suggestions:

I would definitely make sure your TSH remains stable with medication

Hysteroscopy to check uterine cavity

Female Microbiome test with Fertilysis ( can do this instead of EMMA/Alice)

Monitoring your progesterone levels before and after the transfer

NK/Cytokine blood test

[yellow_cake in reply to Whatwillbewillbe_]

Thank you so much for replying and giving me inputs on what to try! I am still thinking about Fertilysis and I am eager to try it, even if I find it a bit expensive, maybe it might be worth it in the end. And that's a great idea to actually monitor progesterone before and after, they hardly monitor anything at my regular clinic but this might be something I can do with the help of my private doctor on the side as well. I will bring that up.