To continue trying for a sibling or not? Or move to de?

[Vassi]

Hello lovely ladies,

I hope everyone is doing okay. I know it can be a difficult time of year and as I sit here reflecting I find myself at a cross roads about whether to continue with this ivf journey or not. I really thought this would be our year but instead we are now going on three years of trying without success.

We are so very fortunate and blessed we have a 3.5 yr old little boy, I know some are still trying for their first and it breaks my 💔. I hope this post doesn't upset anyone.

Since having my son we tried for a year naturally and then two years of ivf. I've had 7 egg collections and 12 embryo transfers. We are getting great egg numbers however from our cycles we've had a devastating miscarriage and a few chemicals.

I'm so desperate to give my son a sibling that I just keep on going despite the odds being against us. Despite all the pain and heartache with every failed cycle or transfer. We are financially & mentally taxed. It has changed me as a person. But I always felt and still do in my heart that there is another child for us. My partner feels that way too so theres this added pressure that If I give up, then it's his dream I'm giving up on too. The guilt of my son potentially not having a sibling is eating me up, especially being older parents I don't want him to ever be alone in this world 😢

I met with my dr yesterday and he said we can keep trying for that golden egg but our best and quickest chance of success is donor eggs. It's a difficult for me to comprehend out of 13 embryos we haven't had the golden one yet. How many more will it take? Did any of you keep trying and eventually get there with oe? Need some renewed hope 🙏

Then theres the de option to consider. How do i make this decision to give up on my own eggs? I'm struggling with the idea of having one biological child and one donor egg child, will i feel the same towards that child, will we have the same bond? Has anyone been in this position that can give me their experience? Or those who considered de for a sibling and chose not to, why?

And for those who decided to stop trying how do you feel now? Will this guilt and sadness ever go away?

Part of me wants to close this chapter but i don't know how. So for now I'm taking a short break to enjoy my family and the festivities, maybe have a drink or two 🤩

Sorry for the long post. So many questions! Sending love and best wishes to you all xx

[Greenleaves1]

Hi - I'm on a similar journey to have a sibling for my son. Only two rounds in though and one blast each round so haven't quite got your numbers.

I think from what you've said and if I was you I'd be looking into further testing to see what's causing the recurring miscarriages or implantation failure. If you move onto DE you may have similar issues. I know of women moving to DE and still having to have multiple goes before one stuck.

Either way I hope you have a lovely Christmas with your son xx

[Vassi in reply to Greenleaves1]

Thank you for your reply, yes I've thought about this too, de is no guarantee. I've had all the immune testing and am on an immune protocol, had a hysteroscopy, will be going for a hsg in Jan. Clinic diesnt believe in emma, alice , era, but i can push for it. Hubby's had spern DNA frag test and all good. Am I missing anything? Wishing you a wonderful Christmas too xx

[Kitkat10]

I felt exactly like you do, it’s hard at the time, I feel for you. I only tried 3 OE transfers when my son was 1 year old but time was not on my side, I was 42.

I was desperate to give him a sibling so I moved to DE and thank fully it worked first time. It took a bit of time for me to grieve my OE but I was running out of resilience with ivf and I wanted to use my money on the option that had the best chances of success.

My perfect little girl was born 6 months ago and I adore her every bit as much as my little boy. I don’t see her differently, I just think she’s such a precious gift that we are so lucky to have, thanks to the donor. We have a very strong bond and I wouldn’t change anything about her. I don’t regret not pushing on with my OE but my egg numbers were nowhere near as good as yours. Good luck 🍀 xx enjoy your family and have a wonderful Christmas xx

[Vassi in reply to Kitkat10]

Thank you for sharing your story. I understand where you're coming from, I had just turned 42 when i started ivf too. I think I needed to exhaust this option as hard as it's been so I'd have no regrets. I'm so pleased it worked for you and congratulations on your little girl, I'm sure she is an absolute blessing ❤️ wishing you all a wonderful Christmas together xx

[Endofitall]

I am sorry for all you’ve been through. I really appreciate your thoughts for those of us who are still trying for our first but you should never feel guilty for posting here it’s a safe space for all of us.

I just wanted to give a different perspective on that issue of giving your child a sibling. I am very much of the opinion that the only reason you should be in this is for you. Because having two or more is no guarantee of your child having that person into life beyond their loss of their parents. I was one of two and while I treasure the years I had with my sibling, I lost him just as we entered adult life. So I now face the realities of being an only child regardless, never having Nieces or nephews, and once my parents leave me, there will be no family left for me. I realise that’s a really hard thing to hear but I strongly believe the only reason to have a sibling is purely your own need, as you just don’t know what the future holds. Sadly my DH has a really poor relationship with their sibling for other reasons, so while I guess that may be repairable at some point, again it’s not something you can predict as a parent. I hope that makes sense and isn’t a hurtful thing to say, and gives a different perspective to take that guilt aspect out of it. xx

[Vassi in reply to Endofitall]

Thank you for your kind words and I'm so sorry about your loss, I can't imagine how difficult that would have been. I appreciate the perspective and agree, I 100% also want this for us ❤️

[Zassa]

You seen to have quite a good egg reserve with 7 egg collections and 12 embryo transfers. Have you tested your embryos?I think your next step is to do some freeze only cycles, test your embryos if possible and within budget and then do further testing. Sperm DNA fragmentation for him and you need to test uterine factors such as microbiome, autoimmune, silent endometrios and clotting factors.

I am also struggling with secondary infertility and just found out that I had chronic endometritis (probably caused by childbirth), resulting in implantation failures or very early chemicals. Someone I know had recurrent miscarriages and it was caused by autoimmune factors, which were somehow activated after she had her first child.

Donor eggs would not help with these factors.

I hope this helps.

[Vassi in reply to Zassa]

Hi Zassa, thanks for your reply. I haven't tested embryos, we get good egg numbers but on average 2 blasts per cycle so I was just of the opinion of try my luck. I'm sorry to hear about your struggles too, it's so difficult. We have done lots of testing, sperm DNA frag test was good, I was diagnosed and treated for chronic endometritis. Have you had treatment for this? I'm on immune protocol for high nk cells and thyroid antibodies. Only thing I haven't done because my clinic doesn't recommend it is Emma, Alice, era. Not sure if it would make any difference as they seem to say they beluevenits the embryos. Xx

[Zassa in reply to Vassi]

Yes I was treated twice (first time partly wrong antibiotics) and now planning to do a retest in the beginning of January. Have you confirmed your endometritis has been cleared? Have you tried intralipids? With your situation I wouldn't move on to donor eggs before you know that your embryos actually were abnormal, as I think donor eggs are still more expensive than embryotesting. EMMA/ ALICE is useful when you don't know which bacteria/s that could be causing endometritis.

[Twiglet2]

I could have written this myself in the summer. I have a son who is 3.5 conceived from our first IVF round and 3rd transfer. 5 egg collections and about 11 transfers later trying for a sibling and we had quite a few chemicals and a difficult misscariage at 10 weeks. We are a same sex couple so were going to move to my wife’s eggs (she is a few years younger I am now 42) but she needed to stop smoking and lose weight first so I kept trying with my own eggs and did another collection on the mean time. We got 6 eggs at my collection in April (our lowest ever) 4 fertilised but we got 2 blasts. The first was a negative but the 2nd frozen transfer I am 28 weeks pregnant with and baby looking good on all tests and scans so far! We didn’t PGTA test. We didnt see the point with only a couple of embryos per collection and tbh I’m not 100% sold on PGTA anyways but was something offered to us because of the chemicals/miscarriages.

So I guess what I am saying is there’s no right or wrong answer for you as I was also about to move to using my wife as a ‘donor’ but I did keep trying and despite all the odds we did find the ‘lucky’ embryo with my own eggs. We used the same donor all the way through btw, same one as our son so it wasn’t a sperm change or anything that made the difference xx

[Vassi in reply to Twiglet2]

Thank you for sharing, I'm so pleased that it worked for you, congratulations!! It's a lot to go through and it just makes it all worth it in the end. I think that's why I keep persevering too, i keep thinking we must be close the next one might be our miracle. Was there anything else you did differently on that cycle? Wishing you all the best with your pregnancy xx

[Twiglet2 in reply to Vassi]

The only thing I did different was taking 600mg of coq10 for 3 months prior for that egg collection (was previously on impryl or lower dose of coq10 in previous cycles). Other than that I actually actively just lived my life and ate and drank what I wanted for that round.y eggs collected being the lowest made me sad at first but they were clearly the best quality compared to the tower rounds so I’ve no idea if it was just luck and perseverance tbh 🤷🏻‍♀️ but I’m hoping the same will happen for you whichever route you decide 🤗 xx

[HelzBelzUK]

Your situation is very similar to ours only we’re not trying for a sibling we’re trying for our first x

So far i’ve done 6 egg collections and transferred 11 untested. All we have to show for that is one miscarriage and two chemicals.

Our recent cycle we’ve sent 4 blasts for pgta so currently waiting for those results for that one golden egg. It’s really hard to say if the other embryos have failed because they’ve been abnormal that’s why I needed to do pgta for this round. Is this something you would consider?

This cycle i’ve also had a hysteroscopy and biopsies to rule out an inter uterine issue as I have endo x

I don’t think I have another cycle in me. The physical side of IVF doesn’t affect me.. it’s the repeated failures. I’ve thought about DE for a while. While it’s really hard for me to give up on my OE I know I can walk away knowing i’ve tried absolutely everything to hold onto my own DNA and you should feel the same . You’ve tried to hard to give your son a sibling.. sometimes it’s braver to walk away than continue on this path hoping for that one chance.

For me it’s be a mum or don’t and the thought of not being a mum is too much to bare. My consultant says no one regrets using DE and i’ve spoken to lots of women who’ve moved to DE and said that this is true x

If you have another cycle in you I would definitely do pgta. Good luck xx

[OnRoundEleven]

Hello Vassi.

I am so sorry for all the heartbreak. I don't have the answers myself (we are also trying for a sibling and having repeatitive implantation failures).

The DE approach could be an idea, but I wonder if you have thought about PGT-A testing of your embryos before implantation. This may help inform your decision, as the PGT-A testing will show if the age of the eggs is the problem or something else.

All the best of luck.

[Memacha]

I’m sorry I don’t have any hope or answers but lots of empathy to share as in a very similar situation. You have expressed so beautifully a lot of what I’m feeling.

Like some others have mentioned, would you consider pgta? This will be our next step to better understand whether there’s an embryo issue or something else. Even with the age related stats, it seems so unlikely for so many not to work. But before making the decision on whether to use DE, it might be helpful to know if it’s likely to be your eggs. If you’re still making euploid embryos, it might help give you confidence to keep going with OE.

Maybe you could consider your limits, financially how many cycles can you afford. Some people say that makes the decision in when to try DE. I’ve heard people say making the decision to relinquish OE is the hardest part and once you’re pregnant you barely think about it. It’s such a hard decision to make and I also worry about feeling different to an oe child and de one despite what everyone says. Maybe it also comes down to is a de sibling better than no sibling. For us I think we would go down that route and hope for the best emotions wise but it’s a matter of when we make the switch. Have you tried talking to a therapist or coach about it? They might be able to help unpick your feelings around it.

I hope you’re able to enjoy the holidays at least a bit and able to switch off from this all consuming journey xxx