Hi all, Hope you are all bearing up and doing well.
Not really a question, just wanted to share somewhere I know I will be understood.
Just about to start my second cycle after first cycle resulted in 4 fails and a missed miscarriage a couple of months ago.
Today at work, I was on training and a colleague on maternity leave came in with her 2 month old baby midway through. As the training was practical and I was the model patient on the bed, I couldn't leave. Everyone in the room stopped to admire and cuddle baby and it went on and on and on. I had my big girl pants on and smiled and cooed as best I could then went to cry in the toilets during a break before returning.
My colleagues know my situation and I know it's lovely to keep in touch during mat leave but I really feel annoyed at how insensitive it all was.
I've read a lot of similar posts and know you'll all have similar stories to share. I'm not usually someone who carries these types of feelings so if anyone has any great tips for coping with them, I'd love to hear. Up until now, I've been doing okay.
Sending love to all those struggling. Keep hope xxx
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Minniemouse88
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It's so difficult when this kind of thing happens. I think we all wish and hope that those around us would have a bit more empathy to the situation, but sadly the more I hear of this the more I conclude that it is only us who have been there who truly understand. I think usually it is just a case of people not thinking, not doing anything intentionally, but equally not thinking of others in the moment. It is a shame you didn't know in advance in a way but you should feel proud for how you coped. As it is really tough. I don't have many suggestions for how to cope, I think it is through chatting to others (like on here), counselling, distraction and planning next steps. In a way it is a shame we cannot alway be honest with those who accidentally hurt us in these ways (which is also an option) but I think that is a judgment call depending on relationships with those concerned. Sorry I have nothing more x x hope you are okay
Thank you, I definitely think part of my response was because I was unprepared and it triggered some things for me unexpectedly. I agree, it is sometimes unawareness on the part of others rather than anything intentional. Thank you for your support, especially as I know you are going through a different but equally tough time right now. Sending you lots of love and hoping you are feeling well xxx
It sucks, doesn't it? I was lucky in that my work colleagues were lovely when I was going through my treatments. One time I broke down at work and my boss (who is an older man) cried with me. I'm now in a new job but, when they found out I was finally pregnant, they were over the moon for me as they knew how many years I'd spent going through IVF. Unfortunately, the insensitivity came from family members.
I think some people just don't know how to deal with it. My in-laws made so many insensitive comments when I was going through treatments or just flat out avoided the topic but, now I'm pregnant, they are contacting me to see how I'm getting on, saying how excited they are, etc. On the one hand I'm grateful but on the other I'm sad that they weren't there for me when I needed it the most.
I think it's truly hard for most people to have that empathy unless they have been through it themselves. What helped me was asking myself what their intention was - if what they did/said wasn't intended to hurt me, but was borne out of absent-mindedness, ignorance, or avoidance because they feel awkward around the subject, it's better to try and let it go and not hold onto it (as hard as that is). But I know it hurts. If there's one positive that came out of my years of heartbreak it's that I feel honoured to be part of such a strong group of women and I now have an empathy that I didn't have before.
Thank you for your words of wisdom. I knew I could count on this group to help me feel less alone with all this. I entirely agree with your views about thinking whether or not the actions/ words are intentional. I know I'll be fine tomorrow, just one of those days I think.
Sending you lots of love and best wishes on your journey and hope you can enjoy the fuss you deserve.
Thank you again and ditto the feeling of honour. I have met so many brave and inspiring people on this forum. Xxx
It is so hard. When I finished my last ever IVF (unsuccessful) following a complicated miscarriage and 6 IVF stim cycles and 7 IVF losses, I came back to work to find 3 others at my level were pregnant and one other was on maternity leave. This was late October and I not only had to deal with yet another IVF failure/loss but the grief process that takes place when you get to the end of the road and realise there will now be no baby...ever! In mid December we had a Christmas party at work which started on the floor in our office. I turned round to find that the girl in maternity leave had turned up to it with her partner and baby. This sort of thing had never happened before where I work and it is quite a formal place so it was a total shock for me. I ended up getting horribly drunk as I couldn't even get to the food table as I would have had to walk past the baby and people kept topping up my glass. I was so utterly distressed I can't even begin to describe it. But as hardly anyone knew my situation there was nothing I could do. Since then I spoke to the head of our dept and he let me know in advance if someone was bringing their baby into the office so I could work from home that day. It hasn't always worked out as someone came in without telling him in advance and I was in floods of tears with the shock of it all. I would encourage people to raise it with HR and suggest they have policies in place to ensure everyone notifies HR and head of dept if they plan to come into the office with a baby from a health and safety and promoting good mental health amongst employees perspective. There is always the possibility someone is struggling with infertility or has just had a miscarriage or TFMR and these are things people often suffer with silently and this needs to be taken into account. I would also suggest getting your diversity and inclusion committee if you have one to recognise thinsg such as World Childless Week and that family doesn't have to include children!
Wishing you every luck on your second cycle - all my fingers crossed for you 🤞🙏 The way you are feeling is normal - people who haven't experienced this just can't compute how it feels and it can feel very insensitive. I still struggle in these unplanned situations, put on a brave face then avoid and avoid! 🙈 There's no one best coping mechanism, but do what is needed to protect yourself ❤️
I was at the fertility clinic the other day, and this woman was there with a small baby. It made me very inconfortable and upset. I swore that if I will have a kid and will want another, I will never bring my toddler to the fertility clinic…. 🫤
I feel completely the opposite. At my last transfer a lady was there in the waiting room with her toddler. It reminded me what I was there and fighting for. I’ve also seen other families there previously with babies and thought oh how lovely they’ve brought them to see the staff who helped them achieve their dream.
I completely agree with this. I saw babies at my clinic as well as sat in the waiting room while women got their 12 week scan pictures. It reminded me of what I wanted for myself ( and I already had a child). I think 2 things can be true at once in that situation, you can you sad for what you don’t have but happy for someone else at the same time. My best friend and I have ivf at the same time. She got pregnant, if anything this made me more hopeful.
Annnnd you said it- you already have a child… some don’t…
Beeing happy for your friend is some thing completely different.
I am not in the enlightenment level of seeing someone at the clinic with a toddler clearly coming for tests, and telling myself “ohhh that’s so cute, oh right that is why I am currently pumped with hormones and going through hell, but good for her”
I don’t need reminders for what I want.
I don’t feel the same for women with babies outside of the clinic. It is just that inside, other women should know better and be sensitive and remember what they went through. When I see a toddler at the clinic it piercing my soul. And I think it is insensitive, even if there is just 1 women feels like that out of 500 to do that and make her feel that way.
The feelings of anger and disappointment and why can’t I do it again naturally and why is it so easy for other people doesn’t change if you have a child. That’s like saying I have no right to feel a certain way as I have a child, that’s insensitive.
my clinic have invited me back to see them, because we have got to know them really well after 5 years and 8 cycles and setbacks, and poor test results and delays and family deaths and so I will go. I just think with a process with so much disappointment the teams who have worked with you for a long time like to see a positive outcome.
Sorry i don’t feel the same. They could have sent pictures. I am 3 years in the process and seeing this reminds me what I don’t have rather than what I am there for…
You are totally valid to feel how you feel and have your own opinion. What you don’t have and what you are there for are the same thing though aren’t they?
It is. That’s exactly what I mean that for me, it reminds me the other side of the same coin. Women that are pumped with hormones and are in the middle of those extremely emotionally draining processes shouldn’t be facing an enlightenment challenge. It is just not ok. I understand that every one are different but even if there is only one woman that might be disturbed by it it is enough of a reason not to do it. Those are my 2 cents
Totally agree with you Karinashe. It's got to be one of the most insensitive things anyone can do, bringing a baby to a fertility clinic. It's as though those who manage to have a baby through the fertility clinic instantly forget their struggles the moment they have a baby and how awful it would have been for them if they had really struggled through multiple IVFs with each one getting more difficult mentally each time! It's totally tone deaf in my view!
I used to feel like this but I spoke to the nurses there who said they wished more people brought the babies in (my wife collected me from a side door after egg collection and they all came out to the car to see our 3 year old that they helped make) as they never get to see them and it should be a beacon of hope for others. So im a little torn on this whole thing now. The maternity is in the same part of the hospital as our clinic (but does have a different entrance/floor) and it is hard seeing the big bumps on the way in but people bringing their IVF miracles to meet the people who helped them create them I’m not sure is that bad… if we have no childcare (no one knows we are trying for a sibling) and both needed for an appointment one of us waits outside with our toddler and we swap in and out but the nurses have told us we don’t need to do this at all so people are being encouraged to come in by the staff too with their children xx
Thank you for doing that. I would do the same. The team can come outside and see the toddler as they did. Some times, even women that didn’t go through this, don’t really understand how hard the process is. And not everyone have a happy ending. That is not a given.
My friend had only one good embryo and the transfer failed. She has no money to continue.
Also, not sure it matters, but the women I was talking about was waiting for tests rather than showing her baby.
I don’t believe these women are deliberately trying to upset others. They probably couldn’t get childcare not everyone is lucky to have family nearby to babysit. I don’t think people should bring babies in just to meet staff- I just sent an email to both my fertility doctor and endometriosis surgeon a picture of our daughter without them I wouldn’t have my girls which I’m forever grateful for. I felt I owed them that. On my journey I found pregnant women harder to see than babies. It’s a shame there isn’t a separate waiting room for those struggling secondary infertility. My local EPU after our first of many losses I had on my journey I wrote to my hospital and said there should be separate waiting rooms a different room for someone who has had a miscarriage confirmed ( as we had very insensitive people showing photos and loudly saying how wonderful their baby is etc after we had been told our pregnancy was no more first positive test after 6 years we were heartbroken). They now put couples into separate room if they get bad news so they don’t have to experience that which I feel good about. I was shocked people could be so insensitive. Whenever we have had successful scans ( we’ve had 6 early losses and late loss ) we’ve never celebrated before we are out of the hospital we are incredibly mindful not everyone gets good news. Infertility and miscarriages are the very worst things any woman can go through. 😭💔I hope one day soon that is you walking through the hospital with your baby that people coo over ❤️🌟xx
I think this depends on the situation. IVF is such a mental and emotional roller coaster. That being said, if a woman with a child comes into a clinic because she can't get childcare I'm certainly not going to hold it against her. I know from experience that you can't pick and chose appointment times - if you've started treatment and need a scan it's not like you can reschedule if you can't get childcare. My first clinic put children's toys out for women coming in with children. I understand how it might be upsetting but I feel like, as women, we need to support each other going through this process.
I don't think they think much about it. It's the same with the positive test announcements in here. Most people think it's encouraging. But it's personal and different for everyone. For me- having never ever seen a positive-most of the times is a reminder of my failures.
Funnily enough I doubt the lady I saw with the baby had childcare issues as she was there with what appeared to be a friend/relative who could have maybe looked after the baby elsewhere.
I had a similar experience at a fertility clinic where I was waiting to go in for egg collection or a scan and this woman was there with her small baby throwing her up in the air and catching her and saying "mummy loves you to the moon and back". I was so upset by it. It was totally tone deaf of her to do something like that. If I hadn't been trying to minimise stress and I hadn't already been so angry and upset by it, hormonally-fired-up me would have gone over and told her what I thought. I just don't get how someone could think this is okay. All I can think is that once someone has their IVF baby they are so overwhelming happy about the whole thing they forget all their troubles getting there...which is obviously great for them but not for those still struggling!
Sorry to hear that. Fortunately I don't think that's always the case. I'm currently 23 weeks pregnant after several years of IVF and I'm super sensitive about my pregnancy - the only people who know are my close family members and work colleagues (who I legally had to tell). I've not posted anything about my pregnancy on social media - I've not even posted any pictures of myself while I've been pregnant. I'm very conscious about potentially upsetting someone. And it's not just people going through IVF - I imagine seeing pictures of happy families/pregnancy related posts is also triggering for people who have lost a child or mothers who are experiencing post-natal depression. I definitely agree there needs to be more awareness about infertility/post-natal depression/pregnancy loss, etc. In fact I don't think workplaces do enough to talk about women's health in general. It's disgusting really.
Hug you first! I always think only women here who can understand how hurt it is when you are showing your happiness of new born baby with others. Sometimes there is no way to avoid. You are doing great! For me, I was crying at home when I need to express this type of sadness or even anger. But I understand a bit more when I had my son, I just want to show to everyone that I have a baby too!!!! Finally !!!! I can join in you as a normal women group!!!! (Only want but didn’t do it in real life).I had 4 years 8 transfers 5 cycles to have my son, so during that 4 years, I tried to minimum catch up with mothers! At the work, if I cannot avoid, I tried to cope with it then cried at home. You will feel better when you can express your feelings. Be strong 💪 you rainbow baby is waiting for you there. Keep your faith.
I think we all get this, it's so hard and people think we are irrational! It's absolutely not something you can understand or empathise with unless you've been there. I get that people don't get it, but you would think in the modern age with infertility and IVF being so prevelent that people would think a bit more. Sadly I've had some really insensitive comments. I've been told I'm too easily offended!! Like WTAF. At the weekend one of my 'friends' told me that even if I get pregnant I shouldn't get attached to it because nature is cruel and the likelihood of loss is high. As if women in our situation don't know this?! He's a man who has never had to deal with this. I was FUMING. When I called him out on it the next day he told me that he was just being practical and that other people might not tell me the things I need to hear. That this way if it didn't work out I wouldn't be too disappointed.
I was so insulted and so upset. I can't speak to him or even see him right now.
It was probably the worst thing anyone has ever said to me, and with really no apology!!!
Unfortunately these people exist and we have to be strong despite them. These are our stories and we are still standing.
Be strong and know that plenty of people understand and hear your voice xxx
I’ve been in that situation several times. Makes you feel like a crazy irrational selfish lunatic doesn’t it! But you’re not. Your feelings are totally valid.
I went through my boss falling pregnant near the beginning of my IVF. She said telling me was one of the hardest conversations of her life. I then watched her pregnancy bloom, everyone clucking round. I even made her nappy cake. She was very sensitive to how I felt, but I also felt very aware of how she must have felt. An amazing wonderful time for her, and I felt guilty like I was tainting that for her with her worrying how I was feeling. Double edged sword!When she brought baby in she warned me so I had the choice of whether to be there.
I’m very lucky that my 7th transfer worked and I’m now 14 weeks pregnant 💖I’ve now experienced it from the other side. Someone who works for me confided that she terminated a pregnancy not too long ago and that she would like warning of any baby visits so she could remove herself. I felt very conscious of telling everyone I was pregnant through fear of upsetting her. I deliberated and decided to tell everyone towards the end of the day so that she could go home if she wanted to.
Maybe I was being a little selfish now it’s me on the other side. I wanted to share my news, to feel like warmth of the congratulations.
For me I hate the thought that people are looking at me and thinking oh no I bet she’s feeling unhappy/sad about this. I’d rather they just were sensitive but didn’t make a big deal. Maybe that’s partly how your colleagues were trying to deal with it? Though I agree some warning would have been more appropriate.
Hi Minnie this really resonates with me, after each of my MMC people in my small team and another I work closely with did this very thing without warning.Well done for getting through it, I did this too but like you went to the toilet to cry.
I then raised this with my manager which sadly didn't stop the thoughtless behaviour, so my advice is, if you can avoid or go away frim the situation do, you don't owe anyone an explanation, put yourself first.
In my 4.5 year journey so far I've come across all kinds of ridiculous insensitive situations and since i now realise I can't stop them happening I do things like block people who send me scan pictures, avoid anyone pregnant or with a baby.
I shop with music in and sunglasses on to hide my crying.
it’s certainly true that everyone feels differently. I’m 4 years into my journey to conceive & I don’t like being around babies. I feel uncomfortable & it almost feels like it’s being rubbed in my face whenever people talk about their pregnancies or their babies. My friend however, who has also been trying to conceive for about the same time as us, loves being around them & can’t wait to have a cuddle when our friends have babies. I find it hard to even look at the new babies! At the same time though, I don’t want people to pussy-foot around me & worry that they’re going to do or say the wrong thing. I kind of think it’s my problem…not theirs. They shouldn’t have to worry about mentioning their pregnancy/babies in case it upsets me…….but at the same time, I don’t want to hear them talking about it. I almost want to bury my head in the sand & pretend it’s not happening. I don’t know if any of that makes any sense to anyone.
Thank you everyone for joining the discussion. I can see from all the comments here that there are different ways of thinking about these types of situations and it's very true that it's not always insensitivity at play. I strive to see things from others' points of view and a couple of days on from the incident that led to this post, that's what I'm doing. Thank you for helping me get there and sharing. I really hope you all get through your own journeys smoothly.
One thing I am increasingly aware of is that the struggle of infertility and miscarriage is sadly still a very silent one. I hope one day there will be more public awareness and discussions of these topics so we don't feel we have to hide so much at work.
Take care everyone and if you are having a hard time, keep reaching out xxx
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