What now?

[Kmcdon]

Absolutely gutted to have just heard that latest transfer with top quality embryo is negative. This was fourth with double donor. What the hell do I do now? I just fed so upset, it seems like it’s so easy for everyone else. I’ve had in total 6 BFN, 2 miscarriages and a chemical pregnancy. I’ve had ERA tests etc, I just don’t know where to go from here? Any advice or stories of success after this would be appreciated. I’m 46 so feel like I’m the oldest person in the world trying to do this. Xx

[Skittles11]

Hi

I'm sorry to learn of your result. You have been through a lot and have kept picking yourself up to try again, I know it's upsetting.

Have you tried-

- PGTA testing of embryos

- DNA fragmentation tests

- Natural Killer Cell tests

- Have you had your TSH checked

- Hysteroscopy

Xx

[Kmcdon in reply to Skittles11]

Thanks for your reply. I’m just feeling hopeless and that there must be something very wrong with me.

Embryos were tested, I’ve had hysteroscopy - all fine, had NK cells test - normal, what is TSH ? I’ve had a positive test for repeated miscarriage which means I should take blood thinners. I’m not sure about dna fragmentation test, what is that? I’m just at a loss. Xx

[Skittles11 in reply to Kmcdon]

It sounds like you have done a lot in terms of testing, it's so challenging when you feel like you've checked off lots of things and don't know what else to try.

TSH is Thyroid stimulating hormone. A TSH blood test would look at how well the thyroid is functioning. If it is too high it can mean you have an underactive thyroid. Clinics tend to want it under 2.5 at time of conception.

DNA Fragmentation goes a step further than the basic sperm tests. It looks inside the sperm to assess the quality.

Xx

[Kmcdon in reply to Skittles11]

Ah got you. Thanks sometimes I'm not sure if I've had them done or not! There have been so many!!! Unfortunately don't think it's my thyroid. I've had ME for about 20 years and think doctor has tested my thyroid every year in hope that's what causing my fatigue. I think I just had it done in December as have my annual check up and get lots of bloods as I'm coeliac as well (you couldn't make it up!!). Think as using DS hopefully that wouldn't be an issue but worth raising. Today is not a good day and feeling battered and bruised by this process. It does help me to plan next steps though so thank you for your reply. Xx

[Simmokt]

I'm so sorry, I really feel for you. It might be worth also looking at prednisolone and, if you can face it, EMMA/ALICE testing. I really hope it works out for you xx

[Kmcdon in reply to Simmokt]

I’m taking prednisone! I think I had EMMA and ALICE when I had ERA. All back normal. Xx

[Kmcdon in reply to Kmcdon]

I’m going to wait for clinic’s suggestions but with each donor transfer I’ve taken 10mg of prednisone. Perhaps need higher dose? What was your experience? Xx

[Seren0119 in reply to Kmcdon]

My doctor (miscarriage specialist) says only 25mg of prednisone together with intralipids. I had miscarriages with PGS embryos and a stronger immune protocol was the only thing that worked for me. Also, an "HCG Flush" before transfer. Don't give up x

[Kmcdon in reply to Seren0119]

That’s interesting. What is a HCG flush? Could you pm the name of your doctor? Xx

[Boo718]

hello, I hear you we were the same I honestly thought double donor was the way and it would work no probs but it didn’t. Did you get them pgd tested we did and they were all abnormal in one batch and a good few abnormal in another xxx

[Kmcdon in reply to Boo718]

Yes they were tested - normal and grade 5AB. Xx

[Kmcdon in reply to Kmcdon]

I think I just assumed that using double donor all would be great first time! Where are you in terms of next cycle? Xx

[Boo718 in reply to Kmcdon]

I had 4 double donor transfers before it worked for us. I am 25 weeks now. Did you get progesterone levels checked before transfer and during 2ww I had to up my progesterone quite a bit. I also had era, Emma and Alice tests xxx

[Jules0277 in reply to Boo718]

Hi Boo, could I ask what your levels were before transfer and what they increased your progesterone medication to? Did they add more pessaries or another medication ?

I have had a miscarriage and chemical and I think it’s related to low progesterone. Both donor. My. Levels were just shy of the minimal amount on last transfer day and I was on x3 lots pessaries and injections every 3 days. Next time I have to start injections earlier to hopefully build up the levels. I don’t absorb it very well.

[Boo718 in reply to Jules0277]

mine was 59 on transfer day which they were happy with but they upped it from the previous transfer to two prolutex a day. So I had one injection in the morning and one at night. No pessaries. They also gave me 10mg prednisolone just incase. Aspirin and clexane just incase xxx

[Kmcdon in reply to Boo718]

That was my fourth donor transfer. They were happy with progesterone on transfer day (it was around 30) but wasn’t tested again. Actually in my last miscarriage I was low on day of transfer and they upped it. I was on 800 mg utrogestan and one Prolutex a day. Also took 10 mg prednisone, clexane, aspirin and folic acid. I’m assuming since this didn’t even implant that it might not have made a difference but I’m not sure? I’ve had EMMA and ALICE as well as ERA and all good. I’ll ask about testing during tww though, thanks! Congratulations on your pregnancy. So exciting! Xx

[Boo718 in reply to Kmcdon]

this journey is soo poop. Have they checked for fibroids and anything else in the womb that may cause a problem xxx

[Kmcdon in reply to Boo718]

I've had a hysteroscopy as well and nothing showed up! Starting to feel a bit 🤷 what's wrong with me!

[soccerkt6 in reply to Kmcdon]

Hey lovely, I think a lot of clinics want to see levels of at least 50 on transfer day. 30 seems a bit low to me. Some people don't absorb the progesterone from pessaries well so you may want to ask next time to be put on the prolutex exclusively. xx

[Kmcdon in reply to soccerkt6]

Thanks that's a good idea. I will ask about levels. Xx

[HedgehogMad]

So sorry to hear this, sending hugs it's so horrible. Were all 4 donor embryos PGT-A normal? I think they normally say expect 3 euploid transfers to get a high chance of success. I don't have any answers sadly but sending love. Hopefully your clinic might have suggestions.

[Kmcdon in reply to HedgehogMad]

Thank you. No just the last one was pgta tested. Last time I had a mmc but my body was growing the sac so it was a problem with the embryo I think. Well I’m telling myself that is a positive. I didn’t know the stat about 3 tested transfers to ensure success. Yes clinic will get back to me soon with next steps. Thanks for replying though. Appreciate your support. Xx

[Jules0277 in reply to Kmcdon]

I am also using donor and have had a chemical and a blighted ovum pregnancies, the blighted ovum i ended up in hospital needing a D&C. I had no idea it was even possible. You don’t consider when you get a miracle positive test that the sac can keep growing without an embryo so pregnancy tests are still positive. It’s so cruel. We are going to go for another round very soon with a new donor. You aren’t alone. It’s a long long road for some of us. We’ve been trying for 10 years with own eggs and now donor. Look after yourself.

[Kmcdon in reply to Jules0277]

Jules0277 thanks so much for your message. Yes it’s so hard sometimes isn’t it. My last miscarriage I had to have a d&c as I had a panic attack about having to go through it again without surgery. Good luck with new donor - sending positive vibes. Xx

[Hidden]

i am so sorry to read this. Have you had an MRI or 3D Sis of your womb? Sorry if I have suggested this before as I know we have been in touch previously. My hysteroscopy didn’t pick anything up but a 3DSIS and subsequent MRI found various things that could be preventing implantation and/or causing my MCs, which were then operated on and I managed to get pregnant with my next transfer (round number 7 and 17th embryo). I am 46 next week so with you on the age thing x

[Kmcdon]

Daisy1245 thank,you. I always appreciate your messages. What a does the test involve, I haven’t heard of these tests, are they as grim as the ERA etc tests!? I’m wondering if I could have them here. Do you mind me asking where you got them and what was the cost? I’m was so glad to hear your happy news and look forward to hearing about your exciting arrival. It’s also good to hear from fellow Gen Xers and know I’m not alone! Xxx

[Hidden in reply to Kmcdon]

Hiya my clinic did the 3D SIS it was actually mandatory. It was basically a 3D ultrasound with saline pumped into your uterus so it showed a really good view of any abnormalities in terms of shape, growths etc. it was much more detailed than things like the tube check and gave a full picture rather than a hysteroscopy being more like a series of photos. I then got referred for an MRI after the 3D scan. The scan wasn’t pain free but they said that was because of all the fibroids they found - others have said no pain at all 🤷🏼‍♀️ I think off the top of my head it was maybe £500 or similar

Hope that helps x

[Kmcdon in reply to Hidden]

Could you pm me the name of your clinic. I never considered that I might have endometriosis or fibroids as not really heavy or particularly painful periods but definitely worth thinking about. Also how long did scan take? Xx

[Chel91]

So sorry to hear. I've been in a similar position where I transfered 10 good embryos (all made from eggs under age 30), they should have been ok. My last transfer was a PGT-A normal also, it ended in a chemical I believe. Definitely knew it wasn't the eggs at that point.

I finally found success with a Reproductive Immunologist full testing and treatment. 10mg prednisone never worked for me either (currently on 40mg a day and lots of other meds). I also went private and had a laparoscopy surgery and they found and removed a lot of endometriosis. Very expensive to go down these roads, but it was worth it for me as I finally had success 8 weeks after surgery and starting my RI protocol xx

[Kmcdon in reply to Chel91]

Thanks. That's really interesting. Could you pm me with who you went to and costs involved? I have had test for endometriosis and I don't have it. Be interested in RI protocol though. I have had two miscarriages. The second one it was definitely the embryo (I think) as the sac etc was growing just the embryo didn't. Xx

[Chel91 in reply to Kmcdon]

I PM'ed you xx

[Noahsmummy2018]

Is your womb lining thick enough? Also, even if your thyroid levels are normal, it could still be worth taking thyroid medication. I don't have a thyroid issue however before I started ivf my doctor put me on thyroid medication to get my TSH level as low as possible.

[Kmcdon in reply to Noahsmummy2018]

They were really happy with my lining, said it looked great and definitely thick enough. Might be worth asking about though, thanks. Xx

[Noahsmummy2018]

Also - try not to read too much into the quality of the embryos - I have a 4 year old son who is living proof that a lower grade works (he was a grade C). The gradings really are just from such an early stage anyway and can't be read all that much into overall. I'm currently in my 2ww after having 2 grade c embryos transferred last Wednesday. Hang in there. It can happen when you least expect it

[Kmcdon in reply to Noahsmummy2018]

Trying to stay positive but it’s really hard going just now. Good luck with your OTD.! Xx

[Ladycoco20]

morning I couldn’t read & run . I can feel your pain & upset .. there are no words & I don’t have any advice , so sorry you’re going through this . Iv had 3 failed deivf transfers & tbh we are completely shocked & broken .. had tests & brilliant embryos 🤷🏽‍♀️

Wev moved clinics & are going one more time .. I’m 47 this month & completely feel to old … but we lose the battle not the war . Holding space for you today ❤️

[Kmcdon in reply to Ladycoco20]

Thank you for such a lovely message. I really appreciate it! I think it’s just such a big decision to go to DE and you just assume it will work and then….. Gets harder to pick yourself up doesn’t it!? Glad you have moved clinics and are following what you want. I totally get it. Good luck, positive vibes and baby dust to you. Xxx

[Ladycoco20 in reply to Kmcdon]

it’s exhausting! I wasn’t sure if I could go again but I feel this year will be our final one .. thank you for your kind words & lol after you ❤️

[Infragilis]

I have read all your replies and you have done a lot. I'm really sorry for what you are going through. I have had many failed transfers and just had a positive one. The difference this time was that I had higher progesterone and intramuscular at 100mg. I don't know if this made the difference. I'm also on prednisolone 5mg, prontogest 4 tablets a day, clexane and aspirin. Before the transfer I had two weeks of antibiotics as a year ago I had bad microbiome which however has improved as I take probiotics everyday. I'm also taking intralipids every 2 weeks. We had a DQA test and also ended up needing LIT treatment. I don't know if this is applicable to donor embryos but maybe you could ask your clinic. Don't give up. My friend who is 47 just had a baby from donor egg.

[Kmcdon in reply to Infragilis]

Can I ask what a DQA test is and what LIT treatment is? I actually did have a course of antibiotics before this transfer as I had a gum infection but not sure if that had an impact, clinic didn’t think it was a negative. I don’t think I had any bad micro biome when I had my tests. Xx

[Poppyhb in reply to Kmcdon]

hi so sorry to hear what you have been through. It’s mentally and physically draining. It sounds like you are doing all the right things to narrow down what the cause is.

I was going to suggest LAD test (which is also treated by LIT therapy) I’m not sure how it would work with a donor but for me, both mine and partners blood was taken to see how our antibodies respond to each other. If this is low, then it’s likely the body is fighting any antibodies they see as foreign (the other half of the embryo dna) so they took the white blood cells from my partner and injected in to me. When retested my body had responded well and in theory now accepts his antibodies. We’d had 3 x IUI and 2x FET all BFN then had the treatment (amongst other immune protocol) got first BFP (unfortunately an ectopic) and then second BFP resulted in our baby girl.

[Infragilis in reply to Kmcdon]

This link explains it well: pathtobirth.com.au/path-to-...

The LIT was carried out by taking my husbands blood and creating a 'vaccine' for me. We repeated this three times.

[happypupp]

Have you read It All Starts With The Egg, lots of advice for both male and female with repeated miscarriages

[Kmcdon in reply to happypupp]

I have before but I'll have another look. Think only apply to me as we're using double donor. Xx

[Hidden]

I’ve just read your post and my heart breaks. I don’t have answers, as I’m with you - but I pray you get some advice from this amazing community, and I pray that one day all this pain and heart ache is worth it. I also pray you find strength and happiness in whatever form whilst you navigate what's next ❤️

[Jodes-2018]

I’m so sorry this hasn’t worked out for you this time. I come with zero advice as I’m fairly new to this however…. I send all of my love and empathy to you and your journey. Gosh it’s tough xxx