Advice on what to say

[Edinburgh1953]

My daughter is 39 and has had a successful first IVF transfer and is pregnant. However a recent scan on 16 September has shown the baby is measuring a week behind with a slow heartbeat. Is having another scan on 22 September to check progress.

As a I am not familiar with IVF I wondered if this is usual for first pregnancy and of chances of the baby being ok. Daughter seems to be convinced she will lose the baby. I can’t bring myself to say to her be positive as some well meaning people advise I know from experience it would not go down well.

I have no idea what to say to her and would appreciate any advice that anyone would care to share if they have had a similar experience.

Many thanks for taking time to read my post

[Titawine]

I'm so sorry that your girl is going through this, i can't tell you about the measurements as ive never been pregnant before, but try just to be there for her , keep her busy so she don't dive into negatif thoughts, finger crossed for her its not over yet

[Habibi87]

I have never been as fragile as from the moment we started our IVF journey. Whenever I spoke to my parents I’d end up in a flood of tears. My father kept telling me that I had no reason to be negative and that I should be more positive. That really upset me as I felt he was blaming me for being anxious and sometimes he denied statistics (which I would decline to him non stop to explain my fears ). My mum just had a ‘move on’ approach after every set back which also crushed me. I know they love me and were really doing their best but I think all I wanted to hear was that they are sorry that we have to go through this, that they understand it is really difficult and that they will always be there for me and love me very much. I hope all goes well for your daughter ❤️

[PepMo in reply to Habibi87]

you are bang on in terms of your advice. I have been through this journey myself and everytime I have felt disheartened, words like this have pulled me through. It feels relieved to know that your loved ones acknowledge your hardships and efforts

[Llizzie]

First and foremost, you clearly care deeply about what your daughter is going through. Coming here and asking for advice demonstrates the love you have for her.

Unfortunately I can’t tell you what the percentage chances are, few probably can. Growth and heartbeats are hard to measure and can catch up. As someone who fell pregnant after their first transfer at the age of 39, and had a bumpy start, I can tell you how she might be feeling.

IVF can be traumatic - I suspect your daughter will be trying to protect herself from more hurt. She likely can’t believe she’s pregnant and she is petrified that she might lose the baby.

I told my parents immediately about my pregnancy but was also terrified as I had some complications - they were there to listen and that’s what I needed.

They went at the same pace I did, even when I was well into my pregnancy they didn’t buy baby clothes as I was petrified of losing the baby and they never tried to move ahead of me. Try to go at her pace. Take each day as it comes and remember she’s scared of losing something she really wants. Let your daughter know you love her, that you’re here for her no matter what happens. My parents told me they were proud of how tough I was - and that meant a lot. I agree that telling her to be positive isn’t the best approach.

Maybe you could ask her if she wants to talk about it or if you can do anything to help her - could you be there around her scan to help support her? Just be her Dad, don’t worry about finding the perfect thing to say. In fact telling her you’re not sure what to say but that you want to be there for her might be exactly what she wants to hear. I’ll keep you in my thoughts x

[Kimbob82]

Hi Edinburgh, just want to say what a great Dad you are for writing a post like this to try and get some advice. I am literally going through exactly the same thing as your Daughter and am measuring a week behind where I should be. I also won’t find out until my next scan in a couple of days if my pregnancy is viable. I’m 8 weeks tomorrow and can’t even celebrate that. It’s so scary. Same as what you’ve been saying, everyone around me is taking the glass half full approach and telling me it’s going to be ok but obviously they haven’t been googling like I have and realised that most outcomes of measuring a week behind aren’t good But of course there are many stories where babies catch up so it can go either way. I’m hoping for a miracle and I wish the same for your daughter.

All you can do is tell her you’re proud of her for being strong and she has no control over the outcome, either way.

It’s a tough time. All the best…

[sazzle2680]

Hi, I’m so sorry to hear about your daughter. It is deeply anxious and heartbreaking time.

Sadly I’ve just miscarried in very similar circumstances a week ago. I stupidly researched the likely outcomes in minute detail in the week between the scan showing the low heartbeat and measuring behind and the follow up scan. For context, if it helps, I was measuring 11 days behind with a foetal heart rate of 85bpm at 8w2 gestation.

Towards the end of the link below there is a table that provides details on research statics when there is a low foetal heart rate and measuring small by a particular gestational date. I think there is a table for up-to 6w2 and one for 6w3 to 7w. It also says by 7w there were no pregnancies that continued where the heart rate was under 120bpm. Unfortunately that’s the group of stats where I sat.

expectingscience.com/2015/0...

From what I learned, you can be measuring up to 2 weeks behind at the early stages, and the medics are not too worried about it if the heart rate is over 120bpm, but if measuring behind is coupled with a foetal heart rate lower than 110bpm the outcomes unfortunately are very dire.

I really hope this ends positively. And thank you for asking for advice and recognising the impact of toxic positivity. I wish more people demonstrated that level of emotional intelligence.

[Kimbob82 in reply to sazzle2680]

Thank you for the link you provided… it’s depressing but useful. I’d much rather be prepared for my scan in two days…

[sazzle2680 in reply to Kimbob82]

I’m so sorry Kimbob. The wait is so horrendous. I really hope you beat the odds.

Do give me a message if you need to vent. It sounds like we are on parallel heartbreaking infertility journeys.

[hoping_for_our_time]

Hello, I echo the sentiments of others, how wonderful it is that you have written this post and are seeking advice.

Toxic positivity is something that is so hurtful on this journey, so you are right to avoid saying anything along the lines of 'be positive', 'it will be fine', because unfortunately in my experience, more often than not measuring a week behind will not result in good news. Of course there is a chance things will be okay, however I do think you need to be prepared to support her if it's bad news.

[Kitca]

hi, the same thing happened to me and it did end unfortunatey. She will be trying to self preservate now i know i did, just hold her hand and tell her you are here.

She wont feel positive there isnt room for it in her head at then moment. Whatever you say dont say it wasnt meant to be should it go away or that it was so early it wasnt anything really. That heartbeat no matter how slow you can guarantee still means everything. Her wait now to find out is probably the most acute torture just try and get her to be kind to herself if possible, go for a walk together. I hope she has a different outcome xxxx

[McQueeny]

I’m so sorry your daughter is going through this. I agree that ‘positive’ messages are mostly counterproductive, because sadly they are not necessarily realistic and they feel very dismissive.

If things do go badly, think of it like any other grief, because that’s what it is. ‘I’m so sorry. We are here for you. We’ll help you get through this’. Etc. That’s all you can really do, and be patient with her in her anguish.

[Missl73]

It’s lovely that you are reaching out to understand and try your best. The reality is, nothing anybody says can make it better but it’s always nice to feel understood. Unfortunately she’s right, measuring that far behind is a very worrying sign and I’ve seen it end badly far more often than I have seen it end well 😔

I’ve been in her position and I lost my baby and my parents (who are both doctors) kept telling me to stop worrying after each scan that showed baby was behind and I found it really upsetting because I felt like they weren’t taking my concerns seriously. However, I don’t think I could have handled them treating it like it was all inevitably over either. I think the best they probably could have done is to say ‘I’m so sorry that it’s such an anxious wait after everything you’ve been through to get to this point, it’s so unfair. We are here to support you no matter what’. The thing I wanted them to understand is how angry I felt that other people just get pregnant with little effort and just expect to give birth to a healthy baby (including them so they could never truely understand the fear that you might never get to be a mother) and it is never going to be like that for me, and that people who haven’t had IVF have a miscarriage they can have sex and try again as soon as they are ready when we have to go through weeks/months of expensive treatment and more heartache with no guarantee we’ll get pregnant again. There are some really reassuring stats that you are more likely to have successful IVF after a miscarriage which in itself is encouraging that implantation can happen but I wasn’t ready to have those conversations until after I’d lost my baby and had time to grieve. Right now I think it’s just being present with her in the moment and not really offering your own views, just listening to hers and validating whatever she’s feeling with love and compassion. I did get my rainbow baby but my next pregnancy was fraught with anxiety I would have another loss. It’s a tough journey xx

[Simmokt]

You've already done exactly the right thing - being there for her and showing you care. IVF is so lonely, she'll appreciate you just wanting to support her.

[Hidden]

I think you are doing an amazing job already. I just wanted to echo others thoughts. The 'think positive' and 'stop worrying' message doesn't help at all. Nor does the 'there will be a next time' or 'at least you got pregnant'. I think really only the woman carrying the baby can understand the hopes and excitement tied up in being pregnant because of the symptoms, the over analysing etc - it takes over your life.. and so when it ends, whether that is 3 days after a positive test or months, after you suffer from really terrible grief.. its not just grieving for the baby but its grieving for all the hope and dreams and optimism you had at the start, and all the injections and poking and prodding you have been through, and life just feels really really hopeless. I know its a cliche but just 'being there' for her if things do go wrong, and giving her the love and support you are clearly already providing, are the main things. let her cry and mourn and get angry, and just tell her you love her and that's all she will need.

I remember one miscarriage my Mum told me she 'knew I was strong so she didn't need to worry about me as I always got through things'. Ok I was 40 at the time but sometimes you still need your parents to give you a huge hug and tell you that they love you and it will be ok. That's the best thing you can do for your daughter at the moment.

So sorry you are going through all of this x