I'm new here (residing in Germany). My question may sound very basic and desperate, but I do hope I can find a sensible answer here.
With my wife we have been trying to have a baby for a couple of years now. The thing that is bugging my mind is, we have been trying the same IVF rounds, one after another:
- we have Blastocysts; at first fresh, but now "frozen"!
- they get trasnferred
- my wife (~38 yo) starts receiving medication (Progesterone, etc.)
- a couple of days after the end of the cycle the attempt fails.
- repeat...
Coming from science, I feel like there can be a more "active" way of trying. E.g. trying to find the "why" of the failures, and trying different methods to at least try to overcome the issue.
But we haven't witnessed any such thing from the clinic's side. Not even anything about what to eat and what not to eat (which I guess should be important at least for my wife?).
May be this is "the way" to do IVF. But could you please let us know, if there is anything else we can/should try? For example do different countries have different approaches (UK vs. Germany)? Are there clinics which run more advanced tests to find the problem and fix it?
Any sort of lead is very much appreciated
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Bobby2222
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Hi Bobby. I will start with a good diet for pre-conception. Carbohydrates - Wholegrain bread and wholemeal pasta, oatmeal, brown rice. All fresh vegetables especially raw or steamed. Over boiling rids them of vitamins and minerals, pineapple juice, apricots, potatoes, all fruit and honey, beans, chickpeas and lentils. Protein - Organic meat if possible, poultry, fish, Milk and hard cheese, nuts and seeds. Fat - Extra virgin olive oil and sunflower oil, avocado and peanut butter, mackerel, sardines, nuts (especially Brazil and walnuts), seeds, sweet corn and sweet potatoes. The things to avoid are too much sugar, processed foods, ready meals, butter, ice cream etc. A little is OK, but not all the time. Drink plenty of water and only a little tea and coffee if feeling deprived. Cut right down or right out – alcohol and smoking. Oh and don’t forget the Folic Acid and Vitamin D! If she hasn;t tried any blood thinners, perhaps ask about low dose soluble aspirin and heparin, which hopefully enncourage good blood flow to the womb and help to prevent any clotting in the womb lining. Maybe a hysteroscopy could help, as they take a biopsy of the womb lining to check for faults. Some of the others might have other suggestions. Good luck! Diane
Hi Bobby, I am sorry to hear what you are going through. Not sure how many rounds you guys had but thete are further tests if multiple transfers fail, such as ERA, ALICE (I think). NK cells test. I don’t have any experience with those but people write about them here, so I hope someone else will reply to your post. You could also have your embryos tested for chromosomal abnormaliries before transfer, you and your wife can do karyotype testing, sperm dna fragmentation test…
Maybe try a consultation at a different clinic to get a second opinion?
How many fresh cycles did you undergo? I know that you need to undergo at least 3 FRESH cycles. Honeslty it's sometimes just pure luck and I read that out of12 embryos you might get a good one.
I went through 3 failed transfers of 6 embryos total and I felt the same way as you (immune system, implantation failure and what bit) but then fourth attempt with same protocol no changes worked and I am now pregnant.
You mentioned that it fails a few days after the cycle ends, do you mean your wife starts to bleed before the pregnancy test date? If this is the case it could indicate low progesterone and they could add in progesterone injections as well as the pessaries. May be worth asking them about doing a blood test for progesterone on transfer day, to check levels are where they should be.
EMMA/ALICE tests also check for levels of good and bad bacteria in the uterus, probiotics and antibiotics are given if they find anything on these tests. Hysteroscopy is also worth considering, as it can check for any abnormalities in the uterus, such as fibroids etc.
NK cells test may also be worth considering too. Or perhaps ask the clinic if they would give the treatments without the tests.
I have seen other ladies mention an ERA test on here, which checks the optimal transfer time for frozen transfers.
So lots of things to try! The fact you are getting blastocysts and have some frozen is great, so I would look at more tests and getting answers before you transfer anymore. I did that after my third failed transfer - I can't tell you if the changes have worked yet, as we are due to have another round in February. But it does feel good that we have changed things up!
On my personal experience I had all FETs. The first one was medicated and ended up exactly like your wife’s. The second time I decided to go all in. I went for naturally modified I cut out caffeine (went decaf so there’s a tiny bit in there but barely any) reduced alcohol (I honestly think caffeine is the biggest infertility offender) I went for acupuncture I changed up my multi vitamins to include naturally occurring folic acid (as synthetic has been shown to be incompatible in some women) I also was trying to lose a little weight at the time so was more keto (but not strictly). If your wife had trouble growing a lining then I’ve been told that a pint of whole milk can help. I didn’t really have this issue. I did all this and hey presto it worked - but who knows if it made any difference. I’d just do it the same again next time.
Hi Bobby, sorry to hear about your failed rounds - I know how that feels.
There is a culture here (in the NHS particularly) that it should take up to 3 transfers to get pregnant. Once you get to that stage then extra testing is a good plan.
The main things to look at are:
1) The viability of the embryos - are they good quality / can you have them chromosomally tested for abnormalities (which is often the cause of failed implantation and miscarriage)
2) The timing of the transfer - is it the optimal window - look in to the ERA test
3) Immunology - is your wife's immune system high and therefore rejecting the embryos (there is a blood test that can be done to check this and steroids prescribed to lower it if needed)
4) The uterine cavity itself - is there anything that could hinder implantation (lining too thin / polyps / fibroids)
5) Progesterone levels at transfer day - they need to be above 50nmol in order to keep the uterine lining intact and allow implantation - if not she can be given extra
There's lots of other things that can also be tested further down the line, but these were the key things for me.
I've done IVF in the USA, Slovakia, and Czech Republic. All 3 countries would run various tests to get to the bottom of the issues. Starting with testing the embryos. It's helpful to know if you are putting in viable embryos before attempting to find the next problem.
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anything different to do after another failed fet? 
Is there anything I can do or take to help my embryo?
Accupunture/ massage/ anything else?
IVF miscarriage Now where do we go?
How many iuis can one take? Should we throw in the towel?
