4th time, can I do anything more?

[Sumadi]

Hi

Hope you are all well. I'm going for my fourth embryo transfer soon, the previous have all been negative. First 3 were funded NHS and this one is private NHS. They seem to be doing the same meds and process regardless of it not working 3 times. After embryo transfer they only recommend the cyclogest pessaries twice a day. Did anyone take any other meds too? How do I know that is enough? Progesterone injections? Is my body rejecting the embryo? They don't even do any bloods.

I'm just getting really frustrated and keep thinking that the same process will end up with the same result. Any advise would be great.

Thanks

[Seren0119]

If it was me and you are paying anyway, I would transfer my embryo to a private clinic that is more rigorous - they should check progesterone levels (I was on huge amounts of a progesterone - injections, tablets, pessaries). My clinic also give blood thinners as routine and do lots of tests on the uterus to make sure it is perfect before transfer x

[Sumadi in reply to Seren0119]

Thank you so much for your reply, i have already started the meds with this clinic now, but i will be sure to press for more testing and ask more questions.

[PinkPanther1234]

Hi,

I am in a similar position to you, 3 BFNs (2 fresh, 1 frozen). I am due to start a new round early next year. Our last transfer was in June, we have had a lot of tests to investigate if there are any underlying problems. We had EMMA/ALICE, hysteroscopy and immune testing. These have showed some issues that need to be addressed next time. We have male factor also.

Have your embryos all been good quality? If they have I would suggest you have some additional testing before your next transfer if you can. The waiting has driven me crazy at times and I am still very anxious. But I did not want to keep on doing the same thing incase there were any underlying issues, which I felt there might be. I would also agree with Hayleh that you should ask them to check your progesterone level.

Talk to your clinic and follow your gut feelings. Good luck x

[Sumadi in reply to PinkPanther1234]

Thank you for your reply, yes there is lots of waiting around. Its been one year per treatment after all the waiting but it has given me a good amount of time to physically and mentally recover. Yes, i did have a hysteroscopy too but they didn't find anything. Mine is majorly a male factor but the embryos I've used previously were my best ones. (2 IVF Fresh and 1 Frozen ET)

I'm going to ask for the immunity test and more progesterone testing. Wishing you all the best for your next cycle.

[Ladybugluck in reply to Sumadi]

Have you PGD tested? After 3 failed transfers, I’d definitely look into this. A PGD normal embryo has a high rate of successful implantation (60-70%).

[Positivechangeplease]

I did a naturally modified FET and progesterone pessaries were started 5 days pre transfer and 3x a day. This was good enough for me as normal ovulation process had worked for growing my lining.

[Sumadi in reply to Positivechangeplease]

Ive tried similar to that but with 2 pessaries for 3 of my cycles but hasn't worked, hopefully can do something different this time. Did they monitor your progesterone levels?

[Positivechangeplease in reply to Sumadi]

No, they didn’t. They just prescribed the normal 3x pessaries that I had the first time around. The first time around didn’t work and I used oestrogen tablets that messed me up a bit. Natural modified worked for me but I think it was a matter of good timing with ovulation and triggering it at the right time. They told me once I had my 7 week scan that my ovaries were making a good amount of hormones but I was worried about coming off them. So I got my GP to take my bloods the day after I’d weaned myself off and it seemed to be a good enough level. Maybe ask your GP?

[XOXO13]

Hello, I agree with Hayleh and if it were me, I’d move my embryos to a private clinic and do some further tests before repeating the same treatment. It was Einstein who said that doing the same thing over and over again and expecting the same results is a form of insanity (a little extreme but you get the point).

I moved clinics after my third transfer ended in a CP because my consultant wouldn’t do any further testing and just wanted to keep going. I had had all the medically approved tests such as hysteroscopy, HyCoSy, karyotype screening, recurrent miscarriage screening etc., and the only thing that was revealed was my APS so I was given blood thinners for my third transfer and I believe that helped me get to at least implantation stage.

We spoke to our original gynaecologist after that who supported us moving clinics and exploring immune testing as I tick a lot of the boxes of someone who’d suffer from elevated NK cells. So we did our research and moved clinics with two of our frozen embryos.

We did a brand new cycle as well and my first cycle with the clinic worked and I’m now 23 weeks pregnant with twins. They were more thorough and more willing to explore further testing such as immunology. I also started blood thinners much earlier and I was closely monitored throughout the treatment phase and through the first twelve weeks of pregnancy.

You have to be your own advocate through treatment, I learnt that through my journey. If you’re not feeling confident, ask yourself why and seek answers. Spend time speaking to your consultant about what you could do differently. You can speak to other clinics to get their thoughts as well.

Sending you so much luck and I really hope it’s fourth time lucky for you 🍀💗 xx

[Sumadi in reply to XOXO13]

Awwww Congratulations to you! Thank you for your reply and for sharing, its really heartwarming. Your right you need to be your own advocate but it's so hard to do that. I suppose when i was funded by NHS i just blindly let them do their thing, thinking they knew best. But I'm going to push them to try something different this time.

[LifetoCherish]

I agree with previous post - I would be looking elsewhere. The whole purpose of IVF is to try to figure out what is causing the infertility (from either side) and then the first transfer is actually a kind of test/rehearsal to see how you reacted to egg collection drugs and if the transfer works. If it doesn't they should be tweaking your protocol every time to get to the bottom of things. More tests should be offered and different amount of drugs or different versions of the drugs. Unfortunately I don't know much about NHS paid for rounds as I am not in the catchment area for that so all of ours were private, but going private means you have more say....you are paying, so you can dictate where you think it should go after your doc gives you all the info. Lots of online research (this place was great for me as well as reading studies online) will help bring up conversations with your doc and ask if you can try something you have read about. I believe with NHS you don't have full reign over what you think could be done, I mean you might be able to suggest but I think they have final say. Private you can absolutely have more say and influence the doctors decision process. I found I was suggesting things to my doc early on from suggestions on here, and my doc was like 'oh right, yeah actually we could try that with you on the next round if this 2nd transfer doesn't work'. And he stuck to his word, we did give it a go and by then I had found more suggestions and we gave those a go on transfer number 4 and I am now pregnant with that round.We changed the amount of progesterone, the way progesterone was given (pessaries plus injections), we increased oestrogen amount, I had blood tests to check progesterone levels every 3 days, added new drugs such as steroids. I also had a biopsy before adding the steroids to see whether my womb was hostile or not. There are lots of ways to mix it up each transfer and see what works for you.

If you can afford to, I would highly recommend going private with a clinic that is close to you so you don't have to worry about cost of travel etc. Then you can concentrate on the finances being thrown at IVF. We had a local clinic that is linked to Harley St clinic so all bloods and scan were done down the road and the big collections or transfer were done in London, an hour away for us.

Best of luck, and keep us posted on your journey xx

[Sumadi in reply to LifetoCherish]

Thank you so much for your reply. I have already started this privately funded one in the NHS clinic and i will try and ask them more questions this time. But next time which probably be my final time, i will try a different clinic. I just feel silly for just trusting the doctors for the last 3 rounds. When i asked them if they could do anything different they just sent me for the hysteroscopy and that didn't show any issues. Hopefully, they can monitor the progesterone more closely this time.

[LifetoCherish in reply to Sumadi]

As you say it might be your last go, I wanted to say with private they offer ways to pay for IVF such as 2 or 3 egg collections for an amount which included any transfers. It's worth getting a credit card that has 24 months or more on interest free so all medication can go on it. I am just thinking of you saying you might have one more go, so if you wanted more there might be financial ways to help you. We borrowed the money off our parents for the egg collection bit and transfers and then we gave the money back to them a year later when we were in a position to. xxx

[Rxyfxyldy in reply to LifetoCherish]

Hi! I know this is an old post, but if you see this, could you send me a private message with the name of your clinic please? Also, huge congratulations on your BFP!! xx

[Roxylife]

Hi Sumadi ! I’m currently on Lublin injections once a day and progesterone suppositories twice a day. Good luck! X

[Mahriya]

Hey lovely. I’m in the exact same boat as you. 2 fresh and 1 frozen cycles failed and the clinic suggested the exact same protocol or doing a natural FET this time. I’m waiting for their letter to contact my GP and push for some tests after 3 failed implantations. Ultimately, I’m planning to go abroad if I don’t get any luck with the clinic here. It’s all very hard and I know exactly how you feel. The disappointment and anger and frustration and no one to care about it all. Don’t give up and contact your GP, you might het lucky and they refer you for more tests. I wish you all the luck in the world xx

[Sumadi in reply to Mahriya]

Thank you hope the next one works for you