Optimum DHEA-S Levels for Egg Quality (age 43)

[Squeak1955]

Is the aim of supplementing with DHEA to bring my DHEA-S and Testosterone levels up to that of a 20 year old for optimal egg quality and egg quantity? I am taking 25mg every other day and recent GP blood test results are showing my DHEA levels to be in the upper quarter of the normal range but does not show for what age “normal” is, would that be for a fertile 20 yr old or for a 43 yr old?

[Chel91]

Do you happen to know what level yours is in terms of a specific number? I think it's good if they are about 300 (I don't remember the name of the measurement sorry) xx

[Squeak1955 in reply to Chel91]

Hi Chel91, I will check the actual numbers in last blood results & let you know x

[Squeak1955 in reply to Squeak1955]

Hi Chel91

For DHEA S level its now 5.5 umol/l when taking 25mg alternate days and when not taking it it drops to around 3.6 umol/l. My GP blood report says the normal range is 1.6 - 7.8 but not 20 year old age mentioned.

For Testosterone level its now 1.5 nmol/l when taking 25mg alternate days and when not taking it its drops to around 0.8 nmol/l. My GP blood report says normal range is 0.3 - 1.7 but no mention of 20 year old range needed.

What does the 300 mean that you refer to? I’ve just started my last ivf cycle so need to alter the dose asap to get this right. Any help you can offer?

[Chel91 in reply to Squeak1955]

Hiya, I had a look and the 300 I meant is 300 ug/dL. Which I just tried to calculate and it is saying that's around 8.1 umol/L. So maybe you are still a little under ideal xx

[Squeak1955 in reply to Chel91]

Hi Chel91,

Thanks for your reply, I think I might up dose to 25mg daily, even though my GP bloods range will come back as abnormal. Would you think that will be OK to do? I have to get this last egg collection right. Do you know what number it should be for Testerone? X

[Chel91 in reply to Squeak1955]

I would say do whatever is right for you, as long as you are getting your levels checked often. Good luck xx

[tryingfortwo]

Hi, did you get your levels checked before taking DHEA? How long have you been taking it for to get your levels up to the upper part of the normal range? I ask as I'm also 43 and looking into starting DHEA myself in the hope of improving egg quality.

[Squeak1955 in reply to tryingfortwo]

Yes I got them checked before starting DHEA and i continue to test monthly.

On and off I have been taking for a few months. I had to tweak the dose a little to get it in the upper level of the normal range on the gp bloods report but now thinking this is wrong as people are saying the level needs to be that of a 20 year old.

The half life is short so if you stop taking its out of your system within a week or so i believe

[tryingfortwo in reply to Squeak1955]

Good to know about the half life, hadn't heard that before. I also got my levels checked with a saliva test and I'm in the lower end of the normal range for my age. How did you decide to take 25mg every other day? I think it's good that you get your levels checked monthly, I intend to do that too. Just staring supplementation now and I think I'll start with 25mg daily.

[Squeak1955 in reply to tryingfortwo]

Hi tryingfortwo

What was normal range for your age? I started on 75mg daily and retested after a month and my bloods were way out of the normal range (GP range mentioned above in reply to Chel91) and so I dropped to 50mg daily and retested a month later, still high blood results so I dropped to 25mg daily and the same again still higher than “normal” range. To get to the upper range of normal as per GP blood test report I had to do 25mg every other day. So it was a process of retesting and adjusting over a few months really. I may have to rethink my dosage as I have to get this right as this is my last ivf round. One lady on here said I should be trying to achieve the DHEA and Testosterone levels if a 20 year old which does make sense so I need to tweak my dose as too high can also have a detrimental effect on egg quality and quantity x

[tryingfortwo in reply to Squeak1955]

Hi Squeak, it's a bit of a minefield it seems. I figured I'd give dhea a go as I've tried preety much every other supplement to no avail and like you time is not on my side. My saliva test result came back as 253pg/ml (normal range 80-632pg/ml). I got my delivery today so I'm going to take 25mg daily and see if I notice side effects and test again in a few weeks. From what you're saying and the experience I've heard from others the way your body reacts to dhea is very individual, some have bad side effects on a low dose and some can take 75mg daily no bother. Have you experienced side effects and have your cycles remained regular while varying the dose of dhea? As your doctor supports taking dhea what is their feedback? I'm guessing that should be the best advice coming from a medical professional.

[AuroraXen]

Hi Squeak, I used DHEA for my last cycle, starting 3 months previously. I was explicitly aiming to get my levels to those of someone in their 20s, rather than 40 👍 That's the point of taking it, as I understood it anyway I used averages from a couple of sites I'd found. One was this one - cmountsinai.org/health-libra... . Another I think wss this conceivehealth.com/blog/fer... . I'm not certain how reliable these averages are, I don't really know enough about the science! 😂But based on this and a couple of other resources I had in mind a target of around 10 µmol/L xx

[Squeak1955 in reply to AuroraXen]

Thank you so much for your reply AuroraXen.

Yes Im now getting the feeling i am taking it wrong as I'm targeting my GP blood test report normal range

What did you have in mind to target for testoerone in nmol/l? My DHEA S is only 5.5 umol/s on 25mg alternate days so based on your resources it look like i am way off. I would be interested to know what dose you were taking daily?

Does your Blood test report show age ranges on it or just what the normal range is? I just get a normal range of 0.3 - 1.7 for Testerone and a normal range of 1.6 - 7.8 for DHEA S.

Based on your experience, would you say DHEA improved your egg quality and quantity?

[AuroraXen in reply to Squeak1955]

I read the advice from It Starts With The Egg and was worried that 75mg per day would be too high. So I started on 25 a day for about 2.5 weeks to get used to it then increased to 50 most days, 25 occasionally (wasn't an exact science!). I then upped it to 75 a day, maybe twice a week, with other days a mix of 25 or 50...after testing with medichecks and measuring 10 I cut back to 25 per day as I didn't want to go higher... as you know, DHEA really had to be taken quite carefully or it can negatively affect your natural cycle I think. So honestly, it was a very made-up protocol 😂! My blood test result from medichecks was very basic, didn't break down ranges and just showed a bar where above 11 would be classed as high. It's hard to say with certainty but I feel it HAS helped me in my most recent cycle. Our 3rd one, in June, was pretty bad and a real decline from my 2nd. This 4th one just gone was my best cycle overall - certainly my best fertilisation and blastocyst results. Of 6 eggs retrieved, 5 fertilised and 3 made day 5 blastocysts. No idea if they're chromosomally normal, fingers crossed (we froze all 3). I DO think DHEA helped but I can't prove that and it could have been the slightly higher dose of stims this time too! Some women really don't get on with it at all though Xx

[Bella_Bee]

So I had this blood test done abroad and here are the reference values they outlined. But interestingly, even though mine were normal at 38yo, I still took 50mg of DHEA 3 times a day for 3 months leading up to IVF after this blood test. It was wildly more successful than my previous IVF but I changed countries, clinics, protocol and sperm donor so it could have been ANY of those things. Probably a combination.

EHIDROEPIANDROSTERONA SULFATO:

My result: 3176 ng/ml

Valores de Referencia

10 a 14 años: Mujeres 339 - 2800 Varones: 244 - 2470

15 a 19 años: Mujeres 651 - 3680 Varones: 702 - 4920

20 a 24 años: Mujeres 1480 - 4070 Varones: 2110 - 4920

25 a 44 años: Mujeres 609 - 3400 Varones: 889 - 4490

45 a 54 años: Mujeres 354 - 2560 Varones: 443 - 3310

55 a 74 años: Mujeres 94 - 2460 Varones: 336 - 2950

Mas de 75 años: Mujeres 120 - 1540 Varones: 162 - 1230

[articsnowfox]

The dose that has had success in clinical trials is: 25mg three times daily. And the formulation should be micronized. The dose is quite important, and in the clinical trials, the patients' natural DHEA levels weren't as important as the fact they were older or with low AMH. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/313...

[articsnowfox in reply to articsnowfox]

I should add that this was the dose I took at age 43 (and my DHEA levels were only slightly below the range of normal ) and I got pregnant with my second son, and my friend who was also 43 took this dose and 3 months later got pregnant with her second child. I know this is only anecdotal but i really feel that DHEA works at the doses given in the clinical trials. I think there has also been success with 50 mg/day but not as much as 75 mg/day.

[Squeak1955 in reply to articsnowfox]

Hi articsnowfox

I have Ferinatal DHEA which I think was used in the trials. When you initially started out I took 75mg per day but the bloods came back way out of the normal range on the gp blood test results with the DHEA S reading at 11.9 umol/L and Testosterone

4.4 nmol/L x

[articsnowfox in reply to Squeak1955]

I don't know what my DHEA and testosterone levels were, but I imagine they were pretty high, as I had definite side effects from the drug, like oily skin and getting grumpy. I think at a dose of 75 mg/day and with a micronized formulation, it would be unusual if DHEA/testosterone levels weren't way above the normal.

[Squeak1955 in reply to articsnowfox]

Did your high levels enhance or detract from your egg quality or quantity articsnowfox?

[articsnowfox in reply to Squeak1955]

I think the high dose helped (but im not 100% sure as i don't have any cycles with low-dose DHEA to compare with) . I did a cycle without DHEA pre-treatment just before i turned 43 which sucked and I only got 1 low quality blastocyst (plus the fertilisation rate was quite low), whereas after 3 months of DHEA, i had a great fertilisation rate and 2 top quality blastocysts

[Squeak1955 in reply to articsnowfox]

That’s an amazing result hun. Keeping everything crossed for you to be successful x

[articsnowfox in reply to Squeak1955]

Oh, it was! One of the 2 blastocysts is now a feisty 1.5 year old I really hope everything works out for you too. Another thing I did was get my eggs collected slightly early. Although the evidence for that is not as strong as DHEA.

[Squeak1955 in reply to articsnowfox]

Oh bless how lovely. I will let you know how well I do on the DHEA, last egg collection for me so I am praying for some good results x

[Barenina in reply to articsnowfox]

Hi, Jumping in here, can I ask if you took all the pills at once in the morning or spread out during the day?

My clinic says to take 75 mg in the morning. I did it before previous IVF cycle and also got way better results but unfortunately suffered two miscarriages.

I checked my testosterone levels now and I am at 1,9 nmo/L after two months of supplements.

Wondering if I should actually increase the dose or not with one more pill a day …

Also giving it everything! Did you have another cycle? How did it go?

All the best,

Nina

[articsnowfox in reply to Barenina]

Hi there, I took them as 25mg 3 times daily. This also appears to be the way it is taken in the supporting studies (well, in the link i posted around 4 studies state the patients took it as 25mg 3 times daily, and the others say 75 mg/day but then I clicked on one of these studies and it was also 25mg 3 times daily): pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/313...

[articsnowfox in reply to articsnowfox]

Another thing i did was to have my eggs retrieved slightly earlier than usual, in order to avoid something called premature luteinization - here is the evidence for it (it's not a big study but the results are pretty interesting) : ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[Barenina in reply to articsnowfox]

Ok, thanks! I also have the pills in 25 mg. Not sure why my clinic says to take them all in the morning, I think because testosterone levels are supposed to be higher in the morning.

Sorry just to be clear. 3 pills a day means taking them with approx 8 hours between? For sure it will be hard for me to remember to take them spread out like that, but want to make sure I take them the optimal way!

[articsnowfox in reply to Barenina]

Hi there, yeah, roughly 8 hours apart but I'm sure it's okay if it's not totally exactly that interval...good luck!!

[tryingfortwo in reply to articsnowfox]

Hi articsnowfox, I'm just going to jump in here as I read through your experience and it's so encouraging!! Can I ask did you have any bad side effects from taking 75mg of dhea and did your cycles remain regular? I'm just starting to take dhea now and that is what I'm really worried about, that ovulation will be delayed/stopped and my cycles will go all over the place and that is something I really don't want as a 43 year old. I'm sure you understand my concern on that front. Any feedback would be really appreciated.

[articsnowfox in reply to tryingfortwo]

Hi there, I did have oily skin/hair and felt a bit grumpy (and higher sex drive...woohoo!) but nothing too major. Having said that, I don't really get things like PMS and the IVF hormones never really affected me much, so maybe my particular physiology doesn't respond that strongly to hormones, at least emotionally (my 43 friend who also took it felt way grumpier on it I think). Periods-wise, mine remained regular. I had quite low FSH and quite high AMH for my age, so maybe that helped..?

[tryingfortwo in reply to articsnowfox]

That's great, thanks a million for the feedback.

[articsnowfox in reply to tryingfortwo]

Anytime. I am super convinced by the DHEA evidence (my job actually is to analyse medical data) and so i try to spread the word

[tryingfortwo in reply to articsnowfox]

Thanks again, that's good to know. I've done a fair bit of research on dhea now also but it's so helpful and encouraging to hear from a woman my age who has had success. My dhea delivery came this week so I literally just started taking it, first time I've tried it and so hoping for success in the form of a sibling for our little daughter. If that happens I'll be thrilled to bits.

[Squeak1955 in reply to tryingfortwo]

Yes, it’s good to share knowledge for sure and let me know how your journey goes along and how successful the DHEA is for you. My egg collection is early December so I will update you on my progress also

[tryingfortwo in reply to Squeak1955]

Hi Squeak, yes, please let me know how you get on. I wish you the very best of luck, stay positive, dreams do come true for many. I'll also keep you updated on my experience with dhea.

[Squeak1955 in reply to tryingfortwo]

Hi trying for two, wishing you all the best too, sprinkles of baby dust to all xxx

[ebonyebene in reply to articsnowfox]

Hi articsnowfox, sorry to jump on your post. I've been considering taking dhea after several failed cycles and also came across this report. I've yet to digest it properly (I'm meant you be 'chilling out' after having a BFN on Tuesday but my mind won't switch off).

This was one of my main concerns about dhea, my levels last year were 10.3umol/L and my testosterone was 1.4. So, theoretically my levels are good however, is the research paper suggesting that those with DOR, regardless of age and current dhea levels, would still benefit from taking it?

[Barenina in reply to articsnowfox]

Hi, Jumping in here, can I ask if know if you should take all the pills at once in the morning or spread out during the day?

My clinic says to take 75 mg in the morning. (3 pills, 25 mg each) I did it before my previous IVF cycle and got way better results but unfortunately suffered two miscarriages.

I checked my testosterone levels now and I am at 1,9 nmo/L after two months of DHEA supplements.

Wondering if I should actually increase the dose or not with one more pill a day … Unsure what level to aim at for best quality eggs.

All the best,

Nina

[Pnw2020]

Hi.Not sure if you have seen this link before:

itstartswiththeegg.com/faq/...

I believe it’s best to start taking at least 3 months before an IVF cycle.

Good luck x

[Squeak1955 in reply to Pnw2020]

Thank you Pnw2020 this is very interesting x

[IVFat40]

I found the advice about DHEA in the book 'it starts with the egg' really helpful and would recommend getting it.

I took 50mg DHEA daily for around 3 months before my 3rd egg retrieval at 40/41 (week before turning 41), it was my most successful egg collection (much better than the previous 2), I'm currently 11 weeks pregnant with one of the 6 blastocysts frozen from that round (early days for me but fingers crossed). Hard to be certain of course but I do really feel DHEA helped me (not necessarily more eggs so much, but much better rate of eggs becoming good quality blastocysts). Wishing you very good luck hun, everything crossed for you.