BFN on OTD, third cycle,top quality 5d embryos

[Mahriya]

Hi everyone, hope you’re all ok. I wish I had better news but I got a negative today. I sort of had a gut feeling about it and period cramps prepared me for bad news.

I still have 2 frozen 6d embryos left but I’m not sure if putting them in will work. I’m certain by now there is something preventing implantation and would love to hear from anyone who has any advice on what tests I should ask for.

I’ve already done some tests through my GP for thyroid, cardiolipin , serum TSH, blood clotting screening and they were all normal.

Have any of you asked for endometrial biopsy and is this something clinics will offer? I feel they keep following a routine and throw and extra medication after each failure 😞

For those in your 2ww , wishing you best of luck xxx

[Millbanks]

I’m sorry to hear this 😢 take it easy today and look after yourself. I always find a little treat helps ❤️Everyone on here has seen me banging on about immune testing, and I’m sure it’s not for everyone but I got my BFP on my 6th transfer - first time on low dose steroids and intralipids for high natural killer cells. I’m convinced this was our silver bullet.

Other things we did: ERA test for transfer timing and PGS testing of the embryos.

Xx

[Mahriya in reply to Millbanks]

Thanks my lovely, I’ll pick myself up again, I always do and don’t give up easily ❤️

Before last cycle I asked for genetic testing and the doctor said they don’t advise it on frozen embryos.

I’ll ask about the other two on my next appointment but they always seem hesitant to dig into anything. My clinic is a reputable clinic as well so I don’t wanna just switch around after a year of dealing with them. They just seem to throw something extra at it every time like they gave me clexane, aspirin and extra dose of cyclogest.

I had terrible skin re action to progynova so can’t wait to come off it now. It’s a pain but they asked me to carry on with medication until Saturday xx

[Millbanks in reply to Mahriya]

That’s interesting! We only had frozen embryos to test, and our clinic said it’s actually better as the freeze/thaw/freeze process means that you actually end up with the strongest embryos! I think there’s a lot of controversy around it though.I do get what you mean about moving clinics, it’s a hassle at the best of times.

Worth having a chat with them though.

Xxx

[JA-fnuk Partner Nurse Fertility Network UK]

Hi MahriyaSorry to hear about your outcome Maybe discuss with your clinic/nurse if there are any changes they can suggest to your protocol

Thinking of you

Janet

[Mahriya in reply to JA-fnuk]

I’ll definitely do that as soon as I can get an appointment, usually there is a good few weeks wait at least. Thanks a lot xx

[KiboXX]

I’m so sorry lovely, sending you a big hug today ♥️

Have you always been on the same protocol? I had three failed rounds with one clinic, was always put on the same protocol (long), we decided to move clinics for one last try and did all the tests you mentioned in between which came back normal. Our new clinic changed our protocol to short and we added in PGS testing and that cycle was successful for us xx

[Mahriya in reply to KiboXX]

Heyy, I was on long protocol for my first two fresh cycles but the last frozen cycle was a short protocol I believe. I started medication on day 2 of my cycle and the transfer was done 3 weeks later. My consultant didn’t seem keen on PGT on frozen embryos. Did you have this on your frozen embryos or fresh? Congratulations on your pregnancy , so good to hear of success stories ❤️ Xx

[KiboXX in reply to Mahriya]

Until my fourth cycle, I never had anything to freeze so by long or short I was referring to the stimulation cycle rather than an FET if that makes sense?Short is supposed to focus more on egg quality rather than numbers and it definitely worked better for us xx

[Mahriya in reply to KiboXX]

That makes sense. I had a frozen cycle this time since we had 3 frosties after my second fresh ivf. Everything has worked great from beginning until the implantation bit on all 3 cycles. I’m just having a hard time to put this all on luck and keep thinking they could have done more. Xx

[Hidden]

Sorry you got your negative. I know its not what you want to hear but sometimes some of us just have really bad luck, and it doesn't mean there was anything wrong it just wasn't meant to be. You have 2 decent quality embryos (they have to be for them to freeze them) so there is every chance it will work. My friend got her 2 children on cycle 7 and 8, another friend had her first child on cycle 9.. they didnt try anything new they just kept on keeping on and eventually one stuck. Its not great to hear as we all need a 'fix' but just wanted to say once you have got over the disappointment of this loss don't be too disheartened about the next cycle, it could be the one xx

[Mahriya in reply to Hidden]

Thanks Daisy. That’s very heartwarming. I guess we’ll have to see what they suggest now for the next cycle and take it from there. It’s painful when you feel unlucky and I really hope there isn’t an underlying issue. Just need to keep strong now and try again xxx

[Fudge1980]

Just wanted to send you some virtual hugs 💕 Have you considered having a consult with another clinic? Just to discuss what happened this cycle and if there’s anything they would do different or any testing they would do. It’s only a consult but you may gather more information that can only be a good thing. Just an idea xx

If our fet fails we will be looking at different clinics as we haven’t been all that happy with our care,felt like one in one out type of thing!x

[Mahriya in reply to Fudge1980]

Heyy, thank you so much. I do need those hugs even if it’s virtual ❤️ I never thought of switching clinics since the one I picked was the best in our area. I’m considering getting second advice now as they clinics seem to act very differently. Not sure if it’s possible to move my frozen embryos into another clinic now but it sounds like a hassle. Best of luck with your cycle, I really wish you get a positive this time xxx

[Fudge1980 in reply to Mahriya]

Thank you lovely 🥰 It’s not a hassle to move your embryos but it will cost you. Definitely get more advice and information xx

[Hopenevergiveup]

I’m with Millbanks! I’m 44 and after numerous attempts of trying to get pregnant naturally my acupuncturist recommended I go to the fertility academy to see Dr Gorgy. He is a specialist in immunology. I also had high NK cells which prevented me from getting pregnant . After months of treatment with intralipids etc I’m now pregnant (just) after my first IVF attempt xx definitely look into it. It’s the only reason I’ve made it to this stage for sure …. Best of luck xx

[Mahriya in reply to Hopenevergiveup]

That sounds amazing, congratulations! I’ll have to look into this for sure this time even if I have to find a private test. Last time I asked about this just before my third cycle, the consultant said they don’t recommend checking antibodies. Xxx

[Hopenevergiveup in reply to Mahriya]

I did it all privately. Apparently the NHS don’t accept the NK cells theory mainly because it’s very expensive. My bloods all got sent to the USA where this is common practice. It is very expensive about £450 but it’s worth every penny. If you have high NK cells like me it prevents implantation and the IVF process is a while waste of time. I really hope you look into this if only to rule it out xx wishing you the very best of luck xx

[IVFat40]

Hello hun, I've recently had uterine natural killer cell testing after repeated implantation failure - there's a research study being run by the University of Warwick and Coventry hospital, which you can self-refer to. There is a cost (around £550 pounds I think) but since it's being done through the NHS and a University, not a money making company, I think it's a lot less than it might be. My impression was the Dr's running it are quite expert in their field, and they were very nice. It's too soon to tell if it will help me (having my first FET since next month), but I'm really glad I got the test done as it did show high nk cells (they recommended steroids and also to try the 'scratch'). Good luck hun 😊

[Mahriya in reply to IVFat40]

Hey hun, thanks for sharing this. It sounds very interesting and I’ll definitely check it out. Did you have to do your cycle through them as well or do they just do the test for research and refer you back to the original clinic? Best of luck with your FET xxx

[IVFat40]

I just did the tests through them, then they wrote a letter with the results and treatment advice which I took back to my original clinic (who have now prescribed the recommended steroid). It involves travelling to Coventry for a uterine biopsy two consecutive months (just two visits total, and a few zoom consultations).And thank you, keeping my fingers and toes crossed for the FET.

[Mahriya in reply to IVFat40]

Thanks hun, I’ve sent them an email last night and they replied with all the info. It’s actually a one hour drive from us so I’m really glad that you told me about it. You’re a star, thanks again xxx

[IVFat40 in reply to Mahriya]

Ah that's so nice to hear 😊

[Hidden]

I'm so sorry 😞 sending a big hug. Have to tried endo scratch/pipelle? I had to be specific and ask for it and plead with my clinic in the end but in the end they gave it to me and it worked after failed transfer. Good luck with everything

[Mahriya in reply to Hidden]

Thanks a lot. I have tried the ends scratch but I know it is available as an add on so I’ll discuss that along with embryo-glue with them. So glad to hear you had a positive outcome xxx

[Hopecontinues]

So sorry to hear your news. I had a gut feel about implantation too and so changed my clinic to one abroad where they add a load of extras in as standard which should help with implantation, but they also asked me to have a hysteroscopy, which revealed a sub septate, which apparently does impact implantation. They also did a bio culture and a scratch. It's so hard to know what the problem is and whether you just need to keep trying or fix something.

Good luck.

[Mahriya in reply to Hopecontinues]

Thank you, I have two funded NHS cycles left for my 2 frozen embryos so I’m not considering going’s abroad just now. That would be my plan of they fail too. I’ll definitely look into more private tests before the next cycle even of the clinic refuse to do so. Best of luck in your journal xxx

[Masief]

Hi Mahriya, so sorry about the negative test. I know how it feels too. I have had 3, but then also miscarried positives. I found that the first every FET I actually fell pregnant and then lost it. I had two more FET and very good transfers and they were negative. Then I tried a natural FET with baby aspirin and that worked twice (but miscarried). I have recently discovered I have two genetic blood clotting mutations. Apparently the lack of blood flow could be the cause of implantation failure, and in my case bleeding during my pregnancy. I also am yet to do immune testing which I will soon. But there are more tests/different protocols like the natural FET that you can try and might be worth talking to your clinic about! Good luck xx

[Mahriya in reply to Masief]

Hi Maisie. I’m sorry to hear you’ve had such a difficult journey and wish you all the best with your next transfer. It’s good that you’re finding the underlying cause and that will help you to succeed for sure. It’s a bit hard for me to accept this is all luck related and I’m certain if clinics did more investigation, we wouldn’t have to go through multiple failures. Are you getting your immune system checked through your clinic or private? I’m still to see how the consultant will react to this once we speak but looking to do it privately if they resist xxx

[Masief in reply to Mahriya]

One thing I have learned through all my research, and reading books by fertility experts that look into issues at depth, is that it is 100% not down to bad luck. In fact the leading expert (Dr Alan Beer on immunological issues) says more than 2 or 3 failures means there is something happening immunologically.

I did test at my clinic but they don't do the thorough testing that others do, they messed up my results and couldn't interpret them so a waste of money. I am going to travel to Greece to get everything looked at (hysteroscopy, immunes and whatever else they suggest). They offer tests much cheaper (remotely) than in the UK. I can PM the details if you want. I had infections testing, microbiome and genetic blood clotting tested through them. There is also a school of thought related to placental health once you are pregnant, which I am 100% sure is my issue due to blood clotting issues. So I will need to support that side of things once I am pregnant. The recurrent miscarriage clinic via NHS does not recognise any of the issues I have looked at. The service they offer is basic and wouldn't even consider placental health as a factor leading to miscarriages. Pregnancy is so much more complicated than I realised with the issues that I have found for myself, including thyroid going under-active only once I am pregnant. When I am not pregnant, my results are normal. So my body reacts once I fall pregnant and there are things to help that.

With your situation it seems reproductive immunology will be key. Don't give up and advocate for yourself. I wouldn't have had the last two pregnancies if I hadn't had pushed for a new protocol, got my thyroid checked as soon as I fell pregnant leading to thyroid meds in advance of my next transfer even when my levels went back down as we found that we needed to control it before hand. That allowed my pregnancy to go close to 12 weeks. So support can allow you to fall pregnant and go all the way, I am literally my own science experiment/evidence of how extra support has let me go further. Also had tissue tested from 2nd m/c and was chromosomally normal. Always always believe your gut, mine has proved me right so far xxx

[Mahriya in reply to Masief]

Oh wow you’ve done so much research, good for you and surely if will be all worth it. One of the ladies in here told me about the testing in Warwick so I’ll definitely do that if the clinic refuses to do anything. I’d also love to have the greek clinic details in PM if you don’t mind sending me these over. I’ve already decided that if I have to through a third egg collection cycle it will be abroad. Thanks again for taking the time to help me with all your findings , really appreciate it xxx

[Jols]

Hi there, had 2 failed cycles with Pgt tested top quality embryos. Changed clinic and found out my NK cells were high, the ERA reported I needed 129 hours (was barely given 108 before) and I needed a higher dose of progesterone (2xCyclogest and 2xLubions a day). Had I stayed with the same clinic they would have kept me going with no testing on the basis that I had 2 previous natural pregnancies. Good luck!

[ki50 in reply to Jols]

Hi Jols, could I ask, when you say you needed 129 hours, when would that be from / to?

[Jols in reply to ki50]

Hi there, it was from the day/time I start progesterone to the day/time of the transfer.

[Mahriya in reply to Jols]

Thanks Jols, a lot of other ladies are pointing me to check my NK cells and do more tests. I’d definitely do this before going to waste another good embryo. Xx