Intralipids

[Millbanks]

Hi lovely ladies,

Does anyone have any experience of intralipids? My consultant has suggested it for my next transfer so just wondering what the process is and a rough cost? I'm guessing its expensive...

Thanks as always xx

[Ivfgotadream]

Yup expensive......I was quoted over £200 per transfusion and would need 3+ To have it done privately

I asked my clinic about it and they said they don’t do it as they don’t believe the research says it has any benefit so decided not to bother

I know plenty of people who have done it and it made no difference to their cycles

[Millbanks in reply to Ivfgotadream]

Thanks for this - its so hard to know isn't it! xx

[Krystal_43]

Did they find NK cells? Or have they suggested these pre-emptively? Currently on a wait list for NK cells tests too so interested to know! Xxx

[Millbanks in reply to Krystal_43]

Yes elevated NK blood cells so steroids and intralipids suggested xx

[Krystal_43 in reply to Millbanks]

Glad you are getting some answers! Were these blood tests or biopsy?

[Millbanks in reply to Krystal_43]

Just bloods. It’s just an interim report so not all the info yet... xx

[Zebedee1971]

Price wise, depends on where you live. Mine were £350 every time but I live on the outskirts of london. You get fitted a catheter in your hand/vein and then hooked up to a drip, the intralipid is then slowly released into your system- takes about an hour. It's perfectly safe, no side effects or anything like that, no chemicals- athletes use them. I sat and read my book while having it. You need them every 4 weeks (I read online they vary for how long they can stay in your system, sometimes they can stick around for up to 9 weeks). You need them up til 16 weeks pregnant so would need at least 4 or 5.

For me personally, they did work, or at least they definitely contributed to the success of this pregnancy. I literally had no luck with ivf in over a year (always chemicals), and no natural pregnancy from April 2018 through to July 2020. When I got pregnant naturally with my little one (september) I had just had ivf (July) and had both the Intralipids and the hydroxychloroquine in my system... I started taking steroids the day I got the tiniest faintest line, and also booked in for a second intralipid the same day. I'd also had a natural pregnancy the month straight after the ivf (August) but delayed the Intralipids by 4 days due to work commitments and that was a chemical.... I also didn't take the steroids for the August pregnancy. I can never be 100% sure what it was that got us to this stage but in my gut I know Intralipids played a huge part, alongside all the other drugs. The fact the August pregnancy faltered so quickly, but the september one flourished- can't be a coincidence???

I'm a huge advocate of nk cell treatment. I'm 30 weeks pregnant and our little boy has been perfect throughout.

Good luck with what you decide to do next x

[Millbanks in reply to Zebedee1971]

Thank you so much for the detailed response! That's really interesting to hear - and congratulations I feel like I may as well try it - definitely the steroids anyway as my NK cells are high xxx

[Donza1]

I had intralipids on 2 occasions and both those cycles failed. So I chose not to bother on my last cycle, which was successful 🤷‍♀️ I did have a slightly higher dose of steroids this last time round ! x

[Millbanks in reply to Donza1]

Thanks for your reply - that's interesting! I guess the steroids did the trick rather than the intralipids. Congratulations xx

[Purpledoggy]

A friend had her third and only successful cycle with intralipids. Who knows if they were the magic bullet but I have to wonder. One major reservation I have with much of the IVF research is that in many cases the cause for infertility is 'unexplained' (read - there is a cause but we don't know what it is). So when you give one experimental treatment to 100 people, it may be there are 4 or 5 that genuinely benefit, but when you do the stats these few people get lost in the mix and it comes out as no significant difference. (I have a PhD in immunology and IVF research has become my new hobby 😂) Yes, loads of experimental treatments have no statistical benefit, but until you know what you are actually treating that means nothing. As an analogy, if you give 1000 people antibiotics they will have no or minimal statistical benefit, whereas if you hone it down to the 20 people with chest infections, boom almost everyone gets better! I have not looked at the papers on high NK cells and intralipids to see if that specific subset benefits, but I would be wary of the non case-selective research on intralipids. xx

[Millbanks in reply to Purpledoggy]

Thank you - that's really interesting and I totally agree with you on the IVF research. There are so many add-ons now that it plays to our vulnerable selves - where we'll try anything if there is a tiny bit of evidence / suggestion that it might help. And there's always the thought that if we had tried it it may have helped.... better to throw everything at it and leave no stone unturned! Which is why it makes decisions like this so hard - because there is always someone who it's worked for and someone who it hasn't. I guess I have to make my own call on that one but it's great to get lots of different perspectives on it for sure. xx

[SCHNOW in reply to Millbanks]

I like what you said leave no stone unturned. So true. After struggling for so long, no matter how much it will cost or how much work it will be, just want to put everything on and hope one of it can make things work. At least I am. So desperate and ready to pay for these add-ons.

[Maui2020]

Hey! How are you doing? ...no advice but great you’re getting some answers. It’s interesting my friend had two out of two successful transfers at a clinic where they give steroids as standard. My Dr never wanted to without testing first. My previous clinic gave me so many extras (except steroids) “just incase”! Hard to know which approach to take. But looks like you’re controlling all variables and sounds promising ☺️ Xxx

[Millbanks in reply to Maui2020]

Hey! lovely to hear from you Thanks for your message - it's so hard to know what to do for the best, but I think I'm just going to go for it. Definitely steroids - I had a hunch my immunology might show that I needed them as my mum has an autoimmune disease so they do say it can be a marker.... There's talk of an HCG wash too but to be honest, I think if we get a euploid embryo, timing change with our ERA and some steroids - I don't think there's much else that can help!! Fingers crossed hey!How are you - where are you at right now? xxx

[Maui2020 in reply to Millbanks]

I definitely think it’s worth throwing everything at it if it doesn’t cause any harm. That’s interesting- an HcG wash- I’m hearing more about this (mainly from this forum!)- is there a lot of research out there? Your current plan sounds good though 👍

I just came from a monitoring scan, hope to trigger ovulation around Monday and then transfer the week after.. the last one! A BC embryo, but I’ve been getting a lot of pep talks from the nurses and sonographers about how unimportant that is. I am planning next steps in my head if this doesn’t work as that’s just how deal with pressure, I don’t know if that’s messing with my positivity... but hoping for miracles anyway xx

[Millbanks in reply to Maui2020]

I'd not heard of a HCG wash before - I know some people have HCG shots before transfer to help with underactive uterine cells, so I guess it's similar to that.. I'm not sure i'll go with it but we'll see!

Ooo so are you doing a non-medicated transfer? I don't really know how they work! Why do you need to trigger ovulation? Is that just so you know when to transfer (i.e. 5 days after your progesterone starts)?

Definitely don't get hung up on the embryo quality - the more I learn about it the more I 100% believe that if its a normal embryo then the rating doesn't matter.

What are your next steps if you don't mind me asking? I think even if it's not more IVF it's still really helpful to have a plan xxx

[Maui2020 in reply to Millbanks]

Yes that’s exactly how I’m doing the non medicated cycle- they monitor your lining and your naturally dominant follicle, and when you’re on the cusp of ovulation you take ovitrelle to trigger it 36 hours later so they can time when to do the transfer. You start to produce progesterone naturally at that time so your cyclogest is extra top up and doesn’t necessarily need to be timed.

I had a question for you that may know the answer to about ERAs.. do you still time the transfer differently if you’re having a fresh cycle?

We always thought this would be our only and last fresh cycle.. but I’m having 2nd thoughts. We always manage to produce good egg numbers, end up with good blastocysts but 6 failed transfers tell me our egg/sperm quality isn’t great. Our sperm DNA fragmentation wasn’t perfect, but the private urologist we saw overplayed it and was recommending really over the top solutions, so in hindsight it’s been hard to judge how much of a factor that is. I don’t know whether I would keep trying.. as you know we have once been successful, but in that round of 30 eggs, only one worked- so not sure that would be the best protocol again as the Dr is perplexed at those numbers himself. I trust my clinic but they’re very minimal in solutions and put everything down to embryo quality. Also too scared to change clinics after my last experience. I’m completely Rambling and off loading my brain.. as you can see am still in thought processes xx

[Millbanks in reply to Maui2020]

Ah ok, that sounds like a good idea and less taxing on the body for sure...

Yes ERA isn’t relevant for a fresh cycle, only FET.

You may not actually need another cycle!! Have you thought about PGS testing? Maybe it would help you find the normal embryos so you don’t have to do so many transfer? Xxx

[Maui2020 in reply to Millbanks]

I never was a big advocate of PGS testing, we thought we would put the money to the extra transfers, but I’ve definitely changed my mind. Right now I feel so in the dark about what’s going on. I think you’ve got a good plan- getting as much info as possible, I hope it’s going well. Do you have an idea of when you can start an FET? X

[Millbanks in reply to Maui2020]

I was totally the same. I was really not up for it but now I just want answers!! I do have raised NK cells in my blood which means I can have steroids for my next cycle... we’re just waiting on the PGS results. If they are back before end of May then hopefully we can start meds for FET then.... if not June I reckon. Xxx

[lianm8]

I had two failed cycles via the nhs and then went private and with both my frozen and fresh round I had intralipids and steroids for high nk cells and both of those rounds resulted in my little girls who are now 4 and 2. Who knows if that helped? But if we had another round I know that I would want to have it again. I paid £300 per go and had three round- one just before transfer, one at 8 weeks and then one at 12 weeks xx

[Millbanks in reply to lianm8]

Thanks for your message. That is really interesting! Congratulations on your little girls 🥰 xx

[Chebellagina]

Hello everyone, I have been diligently reading all comments about intralipids and am also trying to throw the kitchen sink at my current situation.

I've had 5 miscarriages that are, most likely, due to my husband's very high sperm DNA fragmentation even though I have very high Uterine NK cells. We sorted my husbands sperm DNA fragmentation from 39% to 10% and I am now pregnant again. I had the cytotoxicity tests done at the Lister last year in which it was determined that I need either IVIG (much too expensive) or prednisolone with intralipids for my pregnancy to be successful. I'm currently on 25mg prednisolone as was prescribed BUT I'm having difficulty finding a place to administer intralipids near the North West. There is a place in Liverpool, 40 mins away (I'm in Manchester), but they won't administer to me because I haven't had any intralipids previously. Does anyone know clinics either in the North of England or even in Scotland (my husband is Scottish so we can visit family while getting the intralipids) where I can get my first intralipid infusion? Any help, advice, guidance, etc is so very appreciated!! x