Embryos - 50% abnormal -what does this mean?

[cryst4l]

Hi All, I have just had a missed miscarriage from my first ivf frozen cycle. I had 13 blast embryos in the freezer and now there remain 11. I was told in my follow up appointment that it was more than likely a genetic abnormality with my embryos (2 put in and 1 implanted) that caused the m/c and that '50'% of my embryos will be abnormal. But I am confused, does this mean that out of my 11 frozen embryos left, half are still bad and will cause me to miscarry again and I just have to keep having reoccuring cycles until I get to the 'normal embryo' that has no issues? I am scared of doing this again and am trying to understand this whole 50% of embryos are abnormal thing. Does anybody know what this means exactly?

Thank you xx

[Lynnr54]

Hi, sorry for your loss. Unfortunately I think it means exactly as you say. Even embryos that make it to blasto stage and look good are not guaranteed to go on and make a live baby and unless you have specifically been diagnosed with implantation or immune issues this is usually put down to genetic abnormality with the embryo. I think it’s more common for you to get a BFN than it is to have a miscarriage, especially a miscarriage after the 5-6 week stage and I’m sure you will be told you’re unlucky or have some other underlying condition for you to have another. Assuming you are in the ‘normal’ category and 50% of them are normal, then it is often a numbers game - you would have to be very unlucky to get many repeat failures before implanting one of the successful ones. I’ve heard many times that on average it takes 3 goes to get a success. It is hard to keep picking yourself when you get a failure, but you have some good numbers there so there is a good chance you will get a positive in the next cycle or two.

If it helps, with my cycle I got 4 blastos. My first was a BFP, followed by a chemical pregnancy and a BFN and I’ve recently got my second BFP. So I guess I did follow the 50% rule (my consultant told me I had a similar success rate based on my age at time of collection). After 2 failures and with only my worst quality blasto left I was very scared it wouldn’t work, but it did. My sister got 2 blastos on her first cycle - both top quality. The first was a BFN and she’s also recently got a BFP with her second. So please don’t give up hope and try and stay strong for your little blastos.

[Hidden]

Hey I was told the same after my failed IVF fresh cycle. I didn't get a BFP at all though.

We had 1 frostie left and my consultant said we had a good chance as the first one must have been the 50% that developed abnornally...so statistically maybe the remaining one should be part of the 'good' 50%.

It is a scary thought that you might have to go through what you have been through again.

But he said for most women of my age this is the case.

Obviously we got our natural BFP straight after so some of what he said must have been true (still early days but so far looks ok) - but like everything else it seemed like a lottery.

Hopefully you feel strong enough to keep trying.

I think the frustrating thing is it is out of your control....

Xxx

[Wishfully]

Our bodies are imperfect & not every egg & sperm are viable. While the doctor is over simplifying a bit, I think what he/she is trying to get across is that abnormalities with the embryo is by far the biggest reason why a pregnancy does not progress. Our bodies are phenomenally good at filtering out imperfect embryos... it just wasn’t meant to be this time. So, doc has set your expectations, as you should know that not all of those little Frosties are perfect, and that’s both outside of your control and completely normal. But what they do carry is a huge amount of hope & promise.

My goodness you have 11 embryos left - that is fantastic, it really is! Your perfect little embryo (or even as many as 5-6 of them!) are nestled in there just waiting for you.

This process is hard though, so maybe time for you to reset & regain your happiness & strength before starting again. Keep your chin up lovely & big hugs to you xxx

[2-shades-of-hope]

My consultant has advised that we could have genetic testing on our frozen embryos. It won’t increase our overall chance of success but it might mean we get there quicker and save some heartache, by not transferring the embryos that have no chance of ever becoming a baby. We haven’t decided what to do yet. Xx

[Lauren0813]

Oh lovely, that is a lot to take on board! I would contact the clinic again if you are unsure of what it means... wonder if you can get genetic testing on them, that’s if you wanted to do that..? X

[jenny34]

I'm really really sorry for your loss. I think consultants talk in this way to manage our expectations and be transparent but it is perhaps not helpful in that it paints a bleak picture of (as you say) having to endure possible failed cycles (or worse another mc ) before success. However, the number of blasts you have frozen is just amazing; you very rarely hear of that many blasts frozen, so you are in a very good positive position for the future, although I do not want to trivialise the pain you must be going through. To put it in context, I had 6 frozen blasts and I how have 2 happy healthy daughters. The consultants may be trying to get you to consider pgs, and with that many blasts it could be a good option for you. My view was previously that a third of all embryos are "not viable" due to genetic reasons BUT that does bot always been that they won't be healthy babies, as with lots of ivf research it is on going. I most recently read that embryos that are deemed not viable can actually self correct in the womb and develop into healthy babies. Anyways I just wanted to say that I am sorry for your loss but also good luck for the future with your frosties xxx

[jenny34]

...sorry just to add that i have 2 blasts left , so the 50% abnormality does not really add up for me. X

[andylins]

Oh, this situation is tough. I'd say you'd better talk with your dr about possible testings. I mean PGD. They are known to be not only for detecting the genetic diseases but for chromosomal abnormalties. At the age of 38+ 50% or more of our embryos are going to be chromosomally abnormal. Most of them are fatal and end in mc. I'm sorry for your loss. Also some like trisomy 21 may result in a viable birth. I know this sounds not encouraging, but these are the facts we face. I know it's extra costs, but I'm sure it's worth considering in this situation.