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Fertility Network UK
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BFN again

Hello all and Merry Christmas.

Unfortunately for us we got a BFN this morning which is really sad.

Does anyone have an insight into why implantation doesn’t work? This is our second BFN. Any further test we can do?

We have been trying to do everything to the book: diet, lifestyle, Acupuncture, etc etc and still no success.

We’ve had issues with eggs and sperm but now seems like implantation is also an issue!

Christmas is such a hard time too, have had to spend time with family and their children. My sisters just don’t get it and the support is just not there. However counting blessings at least I’m not a mess at work and can have some wine and yummy cheese. Not much but have to count the blessings.

Thanks,

X

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So sorry 🙁 I don’t really have any insight into why, I know it can be a number of reasons and I also know it can be down to bad luck. It’s such a tough time.

Have you arranged a meet up with the clinic to discuss this? Might be worth doing.

Xxx

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Yes that’s will but they are closed for Christmas at the moment. Thanks for your message.

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Thanks for replying on my thread and I am so sorry that you are in the same position.

It is so tough and people don't understand who haven't been through it.

You are right on the wine and cheese though, I bought some the other day that I wouldn't have been able to eat if it had been a positive, well now I am going to eat it all 😂.

Take care of yourself, and be kind to yourself. I am here if you need to talk. Xx

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Thanks Suzannah1985. I keep going through complete and utter sadness to stiff upper lip everything is going to be ok. Just need to ride the waves. I’m here too if you need to talk. X

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Right there with you on that! Up and down like a yoyo here.

It will all be ok for both of us, this is always the hardest day. I am just trying to focus on how lucky I am to have my wonderful hubby and can be proud of what we face together with strength, love and dignity.

Merry Christmas, I'll raise a glass to you tomorrow xx

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So sorry to read your news. It’s such a hard day and doesn’t get any easier. We’ve had 8 BFNs 4 with my own eggs and 4 with donor eggs, and I’ve asked the same questions.

There are many tests you can do and it’s case of eliminating what it could be.

Assuming you’ve had your sperm tested and know your amh.

Have you had your bloods tested? They can put you on blood thinners to

Combat blood clots and steroids to counter act killer cells.

Did you have a scratch? They are supposed to improve Implantation rates.

I’m afraid there is no silver bullet and sometimes you take everything and it still doesn’t work!

Sending you big hugs

I hope you have a nice Christmas and try not to get too down xxx

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Yes had a scratch with this round, but not had blood tested for this and also no antibody test. I just want to prompt my clinic with as much as I can because all of them seem to think going through lots of failed rounds and not testing for things is a better way round to do it. But the sadness and mental health of the failures is so hard.

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I know sweetheart, sending you the biggest of hugs 🤗 xxx

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Aww I’m so sorry to hear that Babytalk

I feel the same way- rather than address some issues I had with implantation and bleeding my doc just wants to go along with ‘standard protocol’ for my FET. We have one A embryo left and a few Cs and I don’t want to play trial and error with it!

So frustrating!

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So sorry to read this, it’s really tough especially when family don’t ‘get it’. Have you had your NK cells tested?

Enjoy your wine and cheese, you deserve it xx

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No I’ve not, I’ll ask the clinic about that when they re-open. Thanks! X

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I would do some thorough research first before bringing it up with the clinic. A lot of doctors pooh-pooh NK testing as it isn’t completely proven.

ive Posted a Separate message with Qs/tips for u below also x

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Sorry for your bfn 😞 Wishing you a nice Christmas with your wine and cheese xx

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I'm sorry you got bad news.its such a tough time to deal with infertility with everyone around you happy with their families. Don't give up and try again as soon as you can. Enjoy the wine and cheese and try to have a Merry Christmas .

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hi,

I recently checked another link/site fertilityfriends.co.uk that had a lot more detailed info on things that could go wrong. But it is quite overwhelming to read! Along with all the wonderful advice on this forum I’ve summarised my main findings/conclusions below;

5 main issues it could be;

1) wrong progesterone/hormone support levels.

If you were bleeding fairly heavily before OTD day it could point to this. Not enough progesterone to maintain the endometrial lining.

Did they give you pessaries/ gels/tablets/ injections? What types and doses?

Often injections have been shown to be more effective than pessaries for women needing extra support. That would be the most obvious and easiest thing to try next time.

There are also intralipid injections that are thought to help with implantation - again slightly controversial like NK cells- but many prominent clinics suggest this too.

3) immune issues rejecting baby/stopping implantation (there are many !)

- Nk cells (natural killer cells) are thought to be found in some women and it attacks the embryo as a foreign invader. Steroids and blood thinners (as others above have suggested) can help reduce this. You can get it tested privately £300-400 but a lot of clinics reject the whole science behind this.

- however some autoimmune conditions/ elevated white count/inflammation/ ovarian antibodies etc can also be a cause of immune rejection. Similar treatment of steroids/blood thinners is used and a lot of clinics will just do this as a precaution/empirically if they suspect any immune issue (even without formal testing)

- checking for blood clotting issues - factor V and some others - that affect the blood flow to uterus can also have affect on success.

- finally there is also some research saying undetected/recurrent chlamydia infection (cervical so not detected by urine/vaginal swabs- and even if it’s been treated with antibiotics before can recur) can cause implantation issues- so a course of antibiotics during 2ww is prescribed. You can do some private tests in London also I believe.

3) Thyroid

Have you had your tsh and free t4 levels tested? I’ve noticed a lot of clinics don’t but this is one of the biggest causes of miscarriage and according to nICE guidelines all women undergoing ivf should have this tested and tSH should be below 2.5 for ivf and then monitored throughout pregnancy.

If you are Hypothyroid - and especially autoimmune - then all of the above applies and immune issues can complicate it.

Do you have any diagnosed health issues?

4) deficiencies

Have you had all your vit D, B12, ferritin folate iron etc all tested? Sometimes something as simple as this needs to be addressed for health and success.

5) extra treatments

- endometrial scratches can help- but usually if done in the previous cycle and not too close to transfer day.

- Embryo glue is another... and recently in Turkey they do an aqueous ‘flush’ or something to the uterus pre transfer that’s apparently had some success and is being brought to uk.

- Turkey and Greece seem to be leading a lot of the new treatments and success.

———————————————————

Obviously age and just run of the mill bad luck can play a part(!) it’s so sad and frustrating- but if you’ve had recurrent issues- they should investigate.

Some of the other clinics are happy to work alongside your current clinic and do extra tests for you. I can private message you some of the ones I’ve come across that deal with these issues. But if your clinic are clueless or resistant... you may want to think about changing clinics

Sorry if these things have already been mentioned /are known to you,

But I’ve found it easier to sort out in my head when I view it as above.

Good luck to you xx

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Wow thanks Saya85 this is loads of useful information! There’s a lot to think about and I’ll research some too. Some clinics that do the test would be good please do private message me. We have one frozen one from this round and I would really like to increase our chances as much as we can. I did have a scratch but no other extra form of testing outside of the normal stuff for me. They concentrated on DH sperm instead but the embryo was a B.B, so something else is to play here. Can’t just be bad luck twice... can it?!

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Sorry to jump in on this, can you pm me a list of clinics too please? I am hypothyroid and want to get more checks before any FET's take place x

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Have pm’d you both ☺️

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So sorry to hear you’re going through this, it’s so sad and bloody frustrating (understatement I know). I think the girls have covered most things, but I would ask to either speak to the lead embryologist or see the report alongside your consultant, they might be able to shed some light on what’s happening.

Have a good drink, and that cheese and take care of yourself xx

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Hello, sorry that it didn’t work this time for you, I had two failed medicated cycles and the 3rd one was completely natural ( no medicines at all) frozen cycle and it worked for me this time.if you have any frozen embryos left and if you have regular periods you can try natural cycle, I found it less stressful, mentally I was in a right place, I could say if it doesn’t work that’s ok I didn’t inject any rubbish in my body anyway, and also I didn’t tell anyone about the last cycle because it’s a very sensitive period for who is going through ivf and you expect people to understand you but it’s not always easy, so I kept it quiet with zero expectations it was way better this time , I wish you a merry Christmas and happy new year , hope 2018 will bring you happiness and the little one 👶

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I’m so sorry. We had a bfn on our 2nd round and were told by a consultant we are genetically incompatible because it should have worked. This is all the explanation we received and it is dubious. I think sometimes they just don’t know why. I wish they’d said I just don’t know to us as to use the word incompatible when describing me and my husband was very upsetting especially when they then went on to tell me how lucky I was my marriage had survived and I should just be grateful for that.

I’d be really prepared for your follow up to hear something that you don’t like Hun.

I’m so sorry this has happened right before Christmas. All I can say is it’s your Christmas too. Do with it what you wish. If you can’t spend it with your nieces and nephews then don’t. They will have enough people round them to fuss over them. Make sure you have some time to feel important too. Sending you a big hug. Xxx

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That’s terrible what they said to you. Sometimes I don’t think the clinics understand what it’s like to go through it and are insensitive. The follow up will be more about how they can get more money out of you anyway 😉

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Have you heard of castor oil pack ?? I did that on my last cycle and fell pregnant. Castor oil pack helps to detox the uterus, cleanse the uterus and makes good environment for implantation , do some research , I have done a lot and I did my pack after the period until before my ovulation and got my BFP. It might be just the coincidence but after the first use of pack I got some yellowish discharge and it looked like pack was working ..

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Hello! How did you use castor oil pack?

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Hey ya , there’s loads of YouTube videos. Try searching castor oil pack for fertility or castor oil pack to get pregnant faster . Let me know if you need any help .

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Hello, thanks for the suggestion. Worth a go as can’t do any harm, I got the stuff so will start it and see if it helps.

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Ya it’s does not harm and that’s why I tried . It’s natural . Do it continuously for 4 days and rest for a day or 2 and then continue. Or do it alternate days . You should get brownish , white or yellow discharge , don’t freak out the pack is actually working . You might get cramps also . Good luck .

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Thanks for the warning! I’ll do anything that may have a chance to work and natural is great too! Also it actually sounds quite comforting, one YouTube vid said you can do uterus mantras while you do it... not sure it will help but why not!

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Ya the mantras is just to comfort you . I loved the pack as it’s so relaxing for this weather. Switch the pack to liver one day for liver detoxification. I really liked it as it made me sleep and relaxed. Hope you like it .

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