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Diabetes India
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Liver care for diabetic persons.

It may be wise to consider the factors affecting the health of your liver, especially if you are a diabetic. Diabetics have an increased risk of nonalcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD). NAFLD is a state where there is an increased build-up of fat in the liver that is not linked to the individual’s alcohol intake.

“If you are diabetic, it is very important for you to maintain a healthy liver.”

NAFLD is commonly seen in the patients suffering from type 2 diabetes. NAFLD, in particular, increases the risk of cardiovascular disease such as heart attack and stroke, which makes it particularly dangerous for people with type 2 diabetes who already have a greater risk of cardiovascular disease.

NAFLD is associated with no signs or symptoms and has been responsible for causing cirrhosis. It also increases the chances of liver cancer and any heart ailments. This disease when accompanied with diabetes worsens the condition for the patient especially when there is poor management of diabetes.

Ways to manage diabetes and maintain liver health

Monitor and control blood sugar levels. Visit Apollo Sugar to achieve long term control of your blood sugar.Maintain a healthy and ideal weight. Keep your blood pressure under control.Keep your lipid profile within the normal range particularly the total cholesterol and LDL levels. Avoid alcohol as it damages the liverExercise regularly and consume a healthy diet. Keep your body weight under control, it prevents NAFLD (nonalcoholic fatty liver disease) which in turn causes cirrhosis.Certain drugs and medicines cause harm to the liver. So, monitor your drug intake closely and only take prescribed drugs.Avoid toxins in the form of cleaning and maintenance products like insecticides etc. Additives in cigarettes also aggravate matters.Refrain from using herbal supplements, unless approved by a doctor.For a diabetic, the doctor might suggest an ultrasound of the liver to plan treatment and monitor the health of your liver.

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How about Milk Thistle???

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Not sure if helps NAFLD but Silymarin (extract of M.Thistle) is powerful in that it can regenerate liver cells. Avid mushroom hunters in Europe often carry it on them as it is a quick remedy for accidental ingestion of toxic fungi / mushroom. There are of course other herbals that can support liver health.

Bitter veges and herbs can and should be incorporated into the diet as the bitter principle is considered essential to liver health in traditional medicine and are often used in detox programs. In humans, bitter herbs can stimulate the appetite, aid digestion, tone up the liver and kidneys, and derail a host of diseases. Bitter herbs, in general, can galvanize our digestive systems to function at their peak by stimulating the production of digestive juices and the dispatch of stored bile (necessary for fat digestion and sugar metabolism) from the gallbladder to the small intestine after meals, thus aiding nutrient assimilation. Bile itself is a natural laxative.:

[1] Vegetables: bitter melon, endive (vege), dandelion greens, artichokes, romaine lettuce, horse radish, dile, kale, arugula, broccoli, olives ...

[2] Herbs: Swertia chirayita, neem, Swietenia macrophylla (sky fruit)  Adrographis paniculata, (Nilavembu), Gentiana lutea (gentian), golden seal, wormwood, chicory (kasani), yarrow, turmeric, Berberis aristata aka barberry (tree turmeric, daruharidra), chamomile, echinaceae, milk thistle, tea and yay, coffee! 

In India you'll often find coffee combined with chicory, another bitter herb. The latter has the added bonus of being a good prebiotic.

Formula: Live52 (Himalaya Herbals) contains kasani (Cichorium intybus), Mandura bhasma, Kakamachi (Solanum nigrum), Arjuna (Terminalia arjuna), Kasamarda (Cassia occidentalis), Biranjasipha (Achillea millefolium), Jhavuka (Tamarix gallica).

The deity that governs the liver is Jupiter which is equivalent to Brihaspati (inner) and Ganapati (outer). The appropriate color is yellow and the gemstones are yellow topaz and yellow sapphire* (*expensive!) - the right mantras will do the job just as well, if not better.

This article by D. Charles-Davies, "Bitters: The Revival of the Forgotten Flavor" is interesting and worth a read:

westonaprice.org/modern-dis...

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wow...dude.....you are really amazing...well read...and really know lot about herbs....

Hmmm how about papaya seeds and lemon....they say just month course of 5 seeds twice per day is sufficient.

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@cure - Yes, I've heard of both and even tried eating papaya seeds before. Not easy to chow it down though. I eat mashed green papaya chutney, garlic chutney, ginger slices in sweetened vinegar in most meals on the side. 

Re- lemon. There was a time when I would religiously squeeze half a lemon for juice and mix it with plain water and then sip it with a straw - every morning, after reading that it is a good way to help the liver detox, etc... Not to be done all the time, but once in a while. Lemon juice like most citrus juices and vinegar help to alkalize the body that has been over-acidified by high carb and high protein foods.

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That was really extensive list. Kalmrgh , liquid or capsule ,has been in use since long for liver ailments. By the way it is also bitter.

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I use to wear a very powerful Yellow sapphire with Ruby. And during same time I got diagnosed with fatty liver.Lol...just coincidence.

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I do not wear any gemstones, not even a ring, so I can't vouch for gemstone therapy. I hear that it is not as strong as a mantra.  Ruby is used for strengthening Surya's effect, so I'm wondering what the combo of y. sapphire and r. ruby is all about - go on, explain for everyone's benefit!

Color therapy for diabetes is a color that looks greenish yellow or a yellow-green combo.  I've never tried this - can't find the right equipment and plain lazy to try, but I read that color therapy is available in India. What do you say?

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LOL...its big and controversial subject....as ayurveda is based on balance of Tridosh(kapha vata and pitta)

On similar lines when u are going thru some bad effects of planet then gem will support you.And if any particular planet is weak in your horoscope then you wear that gem stone to get benefit of same.It is for balancing the good and bad effects of planets

Just for reference....there are herbs connected to each planet.and instead of gem you can wear herbs as replacement.

For me I have best yellow sapphire...but no special benefit seen.

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wear herbs? you're kidding!  I've seen mango leaves hanging outside a shrine or temple but can't imagine you wearing a garland of mango leaves and oh, have you tried eating young mango leaves - I read it can lower BG !!

As for your y. sapphire, you need to do a proper ritual first before wearing it or else the deity governing it will continue to slumber on in dreamland, not realizing that it's time to start working for the master  Think Aladdin - he had to rub the lamp pretty earnestly, no? (oops hope I haven't already offended Sani, ruler of the sapphire and the fierce one).

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Hmmm..mango leaves are said to be DPP blocker. same with mango seeds.

Have u ever tried eating mango with skin???It spikes BS less than just eating mango pulp.

About replacement of gems by herbs read here....

nurserylive.com/plant-astro...

Hmmm in recent verdict..Shankarachrya said Shani is just planet and not God...Hindus should not worship Shani....LOL

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DPP Blocker?  That's news and valuable info. Thanks! And if you could provide citation(s), that would be great - never mind, I'll soon get those fat fingers working away on the keyboard and go a-knocking on google's search portals...

Shani = Shiva-Kali.  This is well-known in Jyotish.  This is why Sri Ramakrishna has his sun, moon and Lagna all in the same 11th sign / house of Kumbha whose Lord is Shani or Shiva-Kali, and that happens to be my Lagna too.

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Guess shani is son of surya and chaya/shadow???

hmmm as per Indian Jyotisha 'Lagna' means first house of horoscope.

Hmmm shani is lord of 'Capricorn'/makar ???

It is said that at Dakshineshwar..shrti Ramkrishna use to speak to Ma Kali.

Since childhood...whenever I see image of kali....i get attracted to same.

Do u know there are two forms of kali???

one the most ferocious is called smashan kali.

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Yes, Shani is the son of Surya, according to legendary accounts but Shani is the key to spiritual growth and the measure of spirituality, not Jupiter (guru). Shani governs both Makar (negative aspect) and Khumbha (positive aspect). Lagna refers to the ascendant and it's this that determines the location of the first house/sign in the equal house system.  If you search youtube you should be able to see the video of some international conference where Bob Dean showed classified photos of a gigantic UFO - mother spaceship measuring 20-200 miles long docked in or near one of the rings of Saturn (can't remember whether it is 20 or 200 miles long - but even at the conservative 20 miles, that is already mind boggling!).

Makar is one of the most mysterious signs and there is great secrecy surrounding it. It is the sign that governs India and if you look carefully at the Makar glyph and turn it at an angle, you can clearly see the outline- shape of India !!  Ma Kali is intimately linked with Makar - the 3 numbers 5, 8, 10 are there.  If you provide e-address, I can send some pdfs on these to you.

I think there are more than 2 forms of Kali. Kali and Tara are both variants of Durga.  If you look at the icons of Tara at Tarapith in Bengal, you will be able to see the similarities of Tara and Kali.

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Oh my knowledge of Horoscope is very limited....Just know bit elementary....

By the way I am Makar.....

Sun,Venus,and mercury all three in Langana(first house).

As I told you since childhood I liked Ma kali.....

During navratri....here in India they worship 9 different forms of Goddess..Tara is not seen among them...

May be Tara is Buddhist form of Ma Kali.However Tara is mentioned among dash(10) mahavidya.

Mention of Tara is also in Jainism.

At Khajuraho...64 yogini mandir...there is tara devi mandir...so guess Tara is also included n 64 Yogini.

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same here - my knowledge of jyotish also limited. With the sun in house 1, the likelihood of combust is there so you may have to do something about the two conjunct planets in it. As Mercury is the 9th Lord and tenanting house 1, it is basically a blessing but this may be cancelled on account of the combust status.

Check with a good astrologer to determine its status.  Equally imp is Venus, lord of house 5 & 10 - important houses! If combust, they can affect career, etc.  As you already know, Shani and Surya are enemies, which is why I had reservations about a ruby-sapphire combo ring.  Looks like you have a very strong Makar constitu- tion.

In which houses are Shani and Guru and are there any conjunct planets in those houses?

The 9 goddesses worshiped during Navarathri are aspects of the one Shakti, and yes, Tara is not featured. There is an interesting story about how Vasishta went to Tibet at the directive of Tara to learn the Buddhist Tara Tantra and brought it to Tarapith in West Bengal. She later appeared to him and turned a stone image which is up to this day venerated in Tarapith. 

Yes, I am aware that she is one of the ten Mahavidyas - read the book by David Frawley and you can get a good idea about her background, signifi-cance, etc. It's titled "Tantric Yoga and the Wisdom Goddesses."

I've just uploaded 4 files onto my cloud drive called 'Mega' - 2 on Tara and 3 on Makar. You can read them online at the link below, and/or download them. Oh, there is a folder containing the 2014 Navarathri discourses that I helped to edit. You might want to check them out too - very illuminating:

To download, right-click the selected item and follow instructions on the menu that opens, and then click the option presented. 

mega.nz/#F!Tk90XADI!3WE7-VN...

Feel free to browse the folders and files and download whatever pleases you. The stuff is is free for anyone who's interested.

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Oh, I've found 2 citations on mango leaves and DPP4 Blocking properties from the leaves extract at the very same Philippine Plant Database.  These are updates or additions derived from recent research. Amazing!

"Antihyperglycemic / Leaves: The insulinotropic hormone, glucagon-like peptide 1 (GLP-1), a recent treatment for type 2 diabetes, is metabolized by DDP-IV (dipeptidyl peptidase IV). Inhibitors of DPP-IV enhance the level of GLP-1, which improve glucose tolerance and increase insulin secretion. Study showed a methanolic leaf extract to have potent in-vitro DPP-IV inhibitory activity, and may present a novel addition to the treatment of diabetes. "

Source: stuartxchange.com/Mangga.html

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Well Philippine Mangos are sweetest in the world ;-)

Don't know about filipino mango leaves ....

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Is it mango ripe  good for diabetics  it may be used freely  The mango ripe to be make pieces just like noodles type  and if we  mango rice bath adding   spices  and turmeric is good dishes in summer season    As rice is mixed  it must taken in minimum quantity  from diabetic persons.make it

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cure 

I've tried those preserved and unripe mango cut into bite-size strips - it's a favorite in Thai cuisine and often used as a side dish... as relish. There are oodles of mango chutney, achar... in practically every Indian grocer I go to and do watch out what goes into it besides mango...

I remember reading a report from an Australian university which conducted some studies on mangoes - and they confirmed that they can lower BS. 

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patliputra - Did you mean Kalmegh? This is Andrographis paniculata which I think is also called Nilavembu.  Formulas containing bitter herbs are normally used to tackle mosquito-borne diseases like malaria, dengue.

For dengue, the main ingredient is Nilavembu. Traditionally, quinine is used for malaria.  Both nilavembu and quinine are among the most bitter of herbs.  The one called Artemisia annua or sweet wormwood used a lot by the Chinese, has recently been added to the list of botanicals for malaria.

The worst one that I've tried is the so-called Swietenia macrophylla or sky fruit. All these herbs that have been for mosquito-borne diseases namely

Kalmegh/nilavembu, wormwood, quinine, sky fruit. 

The above have all been used to ALSO lower BG, which implies that the bitter principle correlates with BG levels, and acts via the liver.

Now, consider the most popular allopathic medicine for T2DM ----- > metformin. Have you ever tried biting into or chewing a metformin pill?  It is absolutely bitter and nasty-tasting... and metformin targets the liver, not pancreas.

hahaha, looks like the cat is now out of the bag. Game's over????  Another point is that the organ that is implicated here is clearly the liver, not the pancreas!  So, it naturally begs the question: Barking up the wrong tree? what is really going on?

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patliputra , cure - I don't know whether you've come across sky fruit, scientifically called 'Swietenia macrophylla' (aka mahogany), which I believe grows in India too. The fruit/seed is used to treat diabetes. You can see images of the fruit/seed here:

google.com/search?q=fructus...

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Nope....never seen....I know Mahogany tree...there are few trees in Pune...Wood is one of the precious wood.But never seen fruit of same.Now when I search on net Indian Mahogany is called Swietenia mahogany. bit different specie than mahogany grown in Singapore.

Yes kalmegh is good remedy for fever...

There is one more herb which works on liver...All Ayurveda medicines for liver contains this....i.e. Kutki (Picrorhiza kurroa).

In 'Shalihotra'(veterinary Ayurveda for Horses ) Kutki is main herb to be used for many ailments of horses.

Also Licorice...it also works on liver.

Hmmm....And for beta cells and pancreas....it is only Vijaysar/Pterocarpus marsupium....or Gurmar/gymnema sylvestre.

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Cjuan ..

you are great.....you have tried almost everything...

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cure - Life is short so one has to try experiencing as much as possible, no?  In TCM, Coptis chinensis is preferred to Picrorhiza kurroa/kutki - both are closely related, actually.

Both have them have this intense yellow color reminiscent of that of turmeric. I have 2 jars of C. chinensis in my cupboard.  The active ingredient is called Berberine and this is the one biochemical that has excited the medical community of late. It has been shown to lower BG through a novel pathway, and so it more than just tackling the liver issues you mentioned. 

Some day you must give fructus S. Macrophylla a try.  Not long ago, I found the powdered form in a shop selling things imported from Turkey.  There was no name on the bottle, only a strong assurance that it will reverse diabetes in no time.  One teaspoon of it in H20 is recommended - I almost died from the sheer bitterness of it... phew, it was absolutely awful : - (   but worth testing it out, no?

Your remark about licorice/yashtimadhu (?) is interesting in view of the article I read only yesterday (go to the link posted below).  A molecule extracted from it - name NTX - has been found to prevent liver damage (cirrhosis) from drinking alcohol and people are starting to campaigning for it to be added to alcohol! 

There is also another substance in licorice that has been found to lower BG called "amorfrutin" this has been known in TCM for a long time so it comes as no surprise as TCM physicians often include licorice to antidiabetic formulas.  Oh, don't run to buy it yet as there is a caveat that needs to be sounded first ... oh, in another post, perhaps!

[1] naturalnews.com/053803_alco...

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Cjuan

yes...life is too short...and we must experience and enjoy everything in life....

And I am sure...you have vast experience....may God Give you long long life to gain more and more experience.

As far as Berberine is concern there are two other Indian herbs...Guduchi/Tinospora cordifolia/giloy.

Baba ramdev is fan of this herb.Many on this forum already mentioned about this herb having sugar lowering effect.

Other one is Daru Haridra/Berberis aristata.

Sure I will get Mahogany fruit.We have few trees here in my city.I will get the fruit of same...It may not be possible for me to get fruit of  S. Macrophylla.

And I am not sure if the tree which I am referring is from Swietenia family.I will have to check up that with Department of Botany of university.But that is not problem.Sure I will give a try.

yes Licorice is Yashtimadhu..we call it jeshtamadh.It works mainly on kapha dosha.

Licorice is easily available here even with road side panwala. and they are adding it to 'Paan'

Even Brook bond red label tea is mixed with yashtimadhu.

Hmmmm....are you TCM practitioner???

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Thanks for your well wishes. Appreciated :)

B. Ramdev - is he the one who formulated the range of products called 'Patanjali'?

Yes, I've tried Giloy many times - it comes in plastic bottles and often combined with other plant extracts like Arjuna, Jamun, Karela, Aloe Vera - these are imported from India and are sold in quite a lot Indian stores here, but you know what, my body seems to be immune to their sugar-lowering effects.  Beware of licorice as it can spike your BP in no time and can lead to heart problems - I had to give it up because of that. Not nice.

Here's an excellent site with botanical database - bookmark it so that you can go there as often as you please:

[1] Swietenia macrophylla: stuartxchange.com/Mahogany....

[2] Andrographis paniculata: stuartxchange.com/Sinta.html

[3] Tinospora cordifolia/crispa : stuartxchange.com/Makabuhay...

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Sinta....lol....i guess in Tagalog sinta means beloved....

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hmmm...have u ever read about pankaj oundhia???

He did lots of reaserch on traditional herbal medicines of Chattisgarh

here is link.

pankajoudhia.com/botanical-...

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I tried watching one of the youtube videos on P. O. but couldn't understand a word!

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LOl....sure he did lots of research on herbs available in chattisgarh...

but sometimes he also gets carried away with local myths and beliefs of tribal.

for example watch his video on youtube about Solanum surattense(white variety).

I don't agree with him.

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As for the mahogany fruit, it's a dry fruit with hundreds of seeds in it. You need to break the shell to get access to the white, flat-shaped kernel or nut inside each seed. Looks like an oversize watermelon or pumpkin seed or kernel.  Sink your teeth into it and you'll rue the day!

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lol

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cure  What made you think that I am practicing TCM? Nope - it is a very, very tiring course and most people give up after the first year - well before the course finishes. But I have to give credit to their way of thinking, etc. They can read your hand pulse and give you an incredible reading of your health, just like an Ayurvedic physician.

As far as TCM is concerned, the pancreas is not the culprit and they don't even bother with it. It is the spleen that is the key organ and it is there that your Qi (or life force, equivalent to prana) is produced, etc. 

Once, I out of curiosity, went to meet this chap who had a high tech device from Japan or Germany, and according to him, it can give a diagnostic reading of your Qi and then generate a digital graph showing the health performance of your main organs. All you have to do is to insert your fingers into the attached device shaped like a metal glove while it reads and computes your health markers. Now, I had said nothing to him about my health status - not a single word, for I seriously wanted to see how good this tool was.

When the graph came up, he took one look and said that I was probably diabetic... can you believe that?  How so, I asked and back came the reply - "your spleen is under-performing, which means that it is not able to properly convert the food one eats into Qi / energy." 

You may be forgiven for thinking that the spleen should be tackled at once. No, in TCM, sometimes it is the organ that comes before it - you see, the organs of the body are interconnected, so if your spleen is not working properly, the cause could be the spleen or its mother", which means that the organ that comes immediately before it. This principle is colorfully called the "mother-and-child relationship."

------ >  Heart (mother, fire) ...... > Spleen (child, earth)

------ > spleen (mother) --- > Lungs (child, metal element)

The spleen (earth element) itself can become the mother to the organ that comes after it (= lungs, metal), see? A good TCM physician can of course work out which organ is the culprit and then prescribe herbs, etc to take care of the problem.

So, in TCM, it is the spleen and not the pancreas per se.  Either you strengthen the spleen (son) itself or nourish the heart (its mother), which will then uplift the spleen and the spleen (mother) will then support the lungs (son). The term 'mother and son' is really just the cause-and-effect mechanism. The effect can also become the (secondary) cause, generating a secondary effect. The cycle is unending.

Not long ago, I read an interesting report that British researchers have succeeded in getting the spleen to produce insulin !! 

More here: theory.yinyanghouse.com/the...

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hmmm.....I really don't know abcd of TCM...

But looks interesting.

How about Coq10 for strengthening heart???

Beta blockers prescribed for BP also helps in limited way to control sugar.

BP is also again attributed to heart.

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Cjuan some where u mentioned you graduated from UK archeological college???

Are you archeologist by profession??

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No, the courses I did were archaeology, psychology, philosophy, economics, geography, a broad-based social science degree program.

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अबबबब .....very learned in varied fields....

But u did not mentioned now you are master of Diabetes even? ;-P

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There is a spiritual angle to diabetes that a lot of people do not realize - you can consider the disease a gift from Divinity, if you like. It's trying to teach something important. Those who get it have a hard time coping with it + the complications. Naturally they become quite incensed with the condition. I had no choice but to do lots of reading and investigation so that I can share whatever I discover with others. No, I still have a long way to go. Four members of the family died from diabetic complications. Who knows, I may the next one in the line. This disease is no laughing matter. It really demands to be noticed and attended to. So, let us all pool our knowledge and see where it takes us on this awful and awesome journey of self-discovery.

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Since CoQ10 is already produced in the body, it is considered alright esp for heart health but you need to get good quality stuff like Ubiquinone rather than Ubiquinol - look for the Japanese one branded as Kaneka. The Japs have claimed that you can banish T2DM if you consistently take it for 6 months! Well !

Take it from me.  The vitamin that is essential is Vitamin G.  G being the initial for God. S/He is the only comprehensive insurance policy worth considering and scrambling for.

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hahaha Cjuan

it is said...'Jitani chabi bhari ramne....Utana chale khilona'

which means  toy will only run till it exhaust its power  given by God.

Even if we understand everything....supplement with all vitamin....Kirishna said in Bhagwatgeeta"Jatosya Dhruvo hi mrutyo' means

The one who is borne has to die.

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The body-complex is what dies... but you, you are beyond all that, and have never been born even. No birth, no death. Only the wise one will understand.

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There are many saying about this in Hindu scriptures.

Shri Krisha said in Bhagwatgeeta

वासांसि जीर्णानि यथा विहाय

नवानि गृह्णाति नरोऽपराणि ।

तथा शरीराणि विहाय जीर्णा-

न्यन्यानि संयाति नवानि देही ।।

Meaning -

As a person gives up his old clothes for new ones, likewise, the soul also gives up old bodies for new ones.

नैनं छिन्दन्ति शस्त्राणि नैनं दहति पावकः .

न चैनं क्लेदयन्त्यापो न शोषयति मारुतः

Meaning soul is indestructible  no weapon can  destroy it,no fire can burn it no water can drench it ,it can not be dried.... soul is 'Avinashi'

Yama the lord of death said....

Kathopnishad

न जायते म्रियते वा कदाचि

न्नायं भूत्वा भविता वा न भूय: |

अजो नित्य: शाश्वतो s यं पुराणो

न हन्यते हन्यमाने शरीरे ||

Meaning:

He is not born, nor does He ever die; after having been. He again ceases not to be: unborn, eternal, changeless and ancient, he is not killed when the body is killed.

अच्छेद्योऽयमदाह्योऽयमक्लेद्योऽशोष्य एव च .

नित्यः सर्वगतः स्थाणुरचलोऽयं सनातनः||

means:This Self(Atman) cannot be cut, nor burnt, nor moistened, nor dried up. It is eternal, all-pervading, stable immovable and ancient.

Atma is 'Sanatan'(ancient) ...can be destroyed...cause it is not born...

But the one...which is born(body) has to die....

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Very interesting discourse. Much ,much beyond diabetes.The ultimate philosophy .

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Cjuan is amazing patliputra 

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Now, you're pulling my leg.  Hmm, perhaps it's gotten shorter, thanks to diabetic complications.

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Hey really???? sad to note this.....

what is ur age??? and since how long you are suffering with diabetes???

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You tried 'pulling my leg' and my reply was the same - to pull yours as well and you fell for it, hahaha :) 

Had this for 15-20 yrs. No, my legs are fine, just some numbness around the part of the sole below the toes - I use far infrared radiation lamp on that and it helps.  A few years ago, the local doc I consulted asked to see my feet, legs and he looked surprised and said that he couldn't understand why there were no signs of any damage.

But I nearly had kidney failure about 8-9 years ago, and thanks to a spiritual healer from Taiwan, she saved them in the nick of time, at the 11th hour, in fact. She literally boxed the body back to health again with her bare hands!! It was a miracle that I won't be able to forget. No messy diet plans or herbs or drugs. That was her first and only trip to Malaysia and she has never been back since that time - pity!

So, can you now understand why I said earlier that God is the best health insurance policy and that it's advisable to take Vitamin G every day?

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Ok....I am taking that everyday...but guess its not sufficient....

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Glad to hear that you're enjoying all the posted chit-chats.  Atman or sat-chit-ananda is still in the realm of Consciousness, the child of .... This is the flame that Gautama was talking about when he spoke of Nirvana and Anatta. When this child-flame gets blown out, tell me what's left?

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Thanks for taking the trouble to  post the scriptural passages here. The format came out splendidly.

Note that there are many levels of teaching. The one you posted here are intended for a certain group = contextualized. 

There is a level beyond that - the Para "state" [Parabrahman] where nothing can be predicated.  So the attributes described below don't apply to it or, as some would say, it's "attributeless"

"This self cannot be cut, nor burnt, nor moistened, nor dried up. It is eternal, all pervading, stable, immovable and ancient."

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Its duality....Atman and Paramatman.....

called 'Dvait .

there is nice explanation about this dvait in mandukopnishad...

Concept is explained thru picture of two birds sitting on one branch...one is eating fruit...the active and other is simply watching is passive soul.

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cure  Interestingly, this metaphor of dva suparna occurs in Rigveda Samhita too. (this flies in the face of western Indologists)

And this apparent duality is a recurrent theme in our sacred/philosophical literature - Arjuna and Krishna in Bharata war, Indra and Rishi Kutsa(again sharing a chariot), sages Nara and Narayana(Bhagvat Purana) meditating together etc. 

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@jingale..."Arjuna and Krishna in Bharata war, Indra and Rishi Kutsa(again sharing a chariot), sages Nara and Narayana(Bhagvat Purana) meditating together etc. "

Thats very enlightening ...I am glad that you described so well

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karch thanks for your kind words, Sir.

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Please dont call me Sir ...:) I am happy with my name :) You can use that to address me :)

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Hmmm...so coq10+e vita+c vita. could help us???

Some Nobel prize winner said heavy doses of e +c will even clear clogged arteries. 

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Have you seen the stuff at this link?

earthclinic.com/cures/diabe...

You could bring useful info from there to the forum for discussion.

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Oops, the stuff I wrote above should be father and child, not mother and child, relationship - see how tricky the whole thing is. There are altogether 3 different diagrams and it's so easy to mix them up.  So, to correct what I wrote, if the spleen is underforming, it is the spleen's fault or the fault of the organ immediately preceding it, which is the LIVER, the one that you are showing a lot of concern for, by asking about silymarin and andrographis (Kalmegh?). I sense that it is the liver and not so much the pancreas and insulin that's the cause of T2D. All the jazz about insulin is really about the sound of $$$. OK, time to zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

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father/mother--- son relationship....

No probs I understood what u wanted to convey..

In Indian philosophy it is called 'Karyakaran Bhav' = reason and effect.

Hmmm....liver... spleen..beta cells...insulin.....

Don't know who is culprit.

I agree modern days its all about $$$$

but what about traditional healers??

Why they also could not point out exact cause??

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even    the   bark      of    banian`   tree    cut  in   to    a     two   inch     piece  soaked    in  water   overnight    ,squeezed   in   to    juice  in`  the   morning    and     taken`   on   empty   stomach  cures   diabetes .Trees    are   worshipped    in   India      because    of   their  medicinal    properties`   and    the`    divine    status     is   given   to   them     so     that   they    are`   not    cut   off   indiscriminately.

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Hidden  cure 

Yes, I've read this before - the banyan is a very sacred tree and comes from the same genus as the Bodhi / Peepal tree. Scientific name of banyan is Ficus benghalensis and for Bodhi tree it is Ficus religiosa.  The leaves of both Bodhi and Banyan can be infused for tea and there's some talk that they can lower BG. The fruit of the popular species F. carica too can be juiced for drinking as well. I see cartons of it (McGregor brand) in the local Indian store here. But I also read that the fig fruit has the highest of GI, so that's a warning to diabetics to beware, obviously.  It is also extremely alkaline. 

There are at least 800 species of Ficus or fig tree. It is even mentioned in Bible right in the very first book Genesis, where it is written that Adam & Eve plucked the fig leaves to hide their nakedness after eating the forbidden fruit! Here in my part of the world, people would tie a piece of red cloth round the base of the plant as a mark of respect.

I've compiled a pdf containing basic info and archived it in my cloud drive [see link below]. If you're interested, you can read or download it from there (open folder 'miscellaneous' --- > Bodhi Tree: Health Benefits. To download, right-click and follow instructions and click the option presented.

mega.nz/#F!Tk90XADI!3WE7-VN...

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Guess fig leaves got sugar lowering effect.....

Adam and eve used fig leaves to cover them self....and ppl are covering fig tree with red cloth.....HAHA

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Cjuan there is one more sacred tree called mesua monosperma or palash.... they have two varieties....one most common is red one...other very rare is said white one...

Nagrjuna ancient Ras shastri....mentions this white variety for making gold.

First I thought that white variety is just myth....but seen this variety in Madhya Pradesh.

This tree also got some sugar lowering qualities.

hindawi.com/journals/ecam/2...

it is said....

Collect Butea Monosperma flowers during first half of lunar month (moon is waxing and before fullmoonday) and when moon is transiting Anuradha Nakshatra.

Clean and dry them.

On day 1, soak 1 flower in a cup of water all night and in the morning, squeeze its juice into water and drink that water.

From day 2 till day 5, increase the flower count daily.

On day 6, start decreasing the flower count (it should be 4 flowers on day 6) and continue till 9th day (it will be 1 flower on day 9).

Repeat this cycle for 45 days and keep checking your blood sugar levels every 9th day.

You will notice huge drop in sugar level before 45th day.

Don't know how much truth....may be just belief...

Look at this remedy.....

you have to collect flowers During first month on lunar month i.e. Chaitra.....but do monosperma flowers in that?? Guess it flowers in 2nd lunar month...i.e. Vaishakh... so it  is called Jungle flame.But ok some times at some places it may flower in Chaitra.

And you have to collect flower in first 15 days of first lunar month when moon is in anuradha nakshtra....

Such type of situation may come once in many years....LOL

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OMG, that's so complicated a protocol and I'll gladly skip it. Perhaps replacing it with Paneer Dodi or Avarampoo is easier without all the moon watching, flower picking, etc. Now you know why I prefer to have nothing to do with tantra, yagna, etc.  Someone like you should start inventing quick-fix tantras without the fuss of matching colors of clothes and oblations, days, time, etc. Those things have to be precise too or nothing will obtain, plus you risk offending the deity too and end up getting walloped by them. Mispronunciation of mantras can even the opposite results from what I read. Beware!

Oh, I know about butea monosperma but have not come across the flowers - you have to go deep in the tropical jungle and hunt for them. No thanks.

I have not heard of palash but will check for it by and by. Thanks for the info.

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cure  Oops I must have misread what you wrote - hahaha, i did not realize that palash is the same as Butea monosperma, national flower of  Uttar Pradesh.

Perhaps hibiscus could be used instead??

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Ficus      religiosa      has    many   medicinal    properties    .If    food   is    taken   in   a   leaf      plate`   made    of   those  leaves   memory  power    increases . If  given   to   a    person    who   can't `  speak   properly     speech    becomes`   distinct . If   the   roots   are   cut    and    soaked  in   water     and    taken    the   infertility   gets    cured    and   a   woman    can    conceive. So    of    all  the   trees   it  is  given   highest    reverence  saying  BRAhma  ,vishnu  and     maheswarastay`  in  that   tree . Even     if    has   to   be  cut  no   body   comes`    forward    to`  cut  easily 

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Any  way     if    a    person`   has     come   to   a   stage     breaking    the    head   against     the     wall and    all     the   efforts    failed`  , if    does   not    have     any`   responsibilities    can   try  this remedy.

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When   an  experiment   done    on   rats    and    cats  or    other     animals    and     deductions   are   done    there    is  no   harm    in      trying   this.

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cure ; Hidden 

I have 3 pots of peepal growing on my balcony. I am reluctant to pluck the green leaves to make tea, etc.  what to do?

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Lol ....do nothing...just let them grow..

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absolutely :)

I was asked to plant a pot - twice - while doing meditation. And, it seems to be doing well. Taller than me and the leaves are large and pretty, hence I dare not ...

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But      for    reducing   sugar      levels      , a`   small    piece   cut    from`   bark`  has    to  be    used . Daily   you   can  collect   a   small`  piece     and    soak    that  in  a    glass   of`   water    and    drink   that   in`  the    morning     on  empty   stomach . It`   is   more   efficacious     than``   many   natural   remedies    

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But you  always  can  go`  for   very`  big`  tree   and   take   a    small`   two`    inch   piece`  for    testing`  sugar  level

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assuming    that   you  want   to   check`   the  results  in   the     sugar   lowering   issue.

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The tree that has the leaves is quite a walk from my place. I plucked a few the other day and combined it with jackfruit leaves and infuse them with this monk fruit which I believe grows in India.

See the images here:

google.com/search?hl=en&sit...

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leaves    are    used     for  making   leafplate       in   which      food`     can`  be   taken   .  The    leaf   plate   is   recommended    for    enhancing   memoryand   not   for    sugar.

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this  is not    Baniyan  tree . some    communication     gap . I    am   sorry

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Since     you    have     tried   all    things   ,  you   take    insulin  a   homeopathic  preparation   in   powder``   form`   in      3x   potency   for  a   period  of    three`  weeks  . If  you    get    satisfaction     as     to  it's    effect   take    it    for  3  months .Homeopathy   worrks    on     the   theory     'likes`    cure  likes   '. In  Ayurveda     , they recommend     yashimadhu   which`    is   very    sweet   and     if    it   works     that    could   be  on   this    theory`    only . I   never   tried    that   .

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Do not try yashtimadhu in raw form without knowing the potential risks first - you will very likely get water retention (= edema) and high blood pressure. This happened to me after taking licorice for just a week. 

"...glycyrrhizin in [raw] licorice root can cause issues with hypertension, edema, and possibly effect a hormonal component of our renal regulation called aldosterone regulation. So, there is definitely a concern for long-term use in regards to licorice root."

- Julie Chen, M.D

You can instead supplement on deglycyrrhizinated licorice (abbre. DGL) (deglycyrrhizinated = the offending biochemical is removed)

"In my clinical experience, patients who have heartburn, peptic ulcer disease, or gastritis find great relief from DGL."

- Julie Chen, M.D

In DGL, glycyrrhizrin may not be totally removed, so "you should still check your blood pressure once or twice every week to make sure that your blood pressure remains in your normal range."  - Jule Chen, M.D.

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use of Yashtimadhu is very conman in India...

Ayurveda knows lot about this herb....but no where it is recommended as sweetner...or to control blood sugar.

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Same too in TCM - it is added normally as an all rounder - to help a herbal formula to interact better and more harmoniously, so only a little of it is prescribed. The candy sold in the form of long sticks called licorice is not licorice - it is made of Anise!

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Anise??? really??? we call it jeshthamadh shira...(translate same as candy).

I want some sure shot herb for fatty liver.

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The one you name as JS above is true licorice but the one sold in Oz, US. western countries - there, it is made NOT from licorice but anise and it comes in long black candy sticks.

See the pics here:

google.com/search?hl=en&sit...

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yeah same we get here ..also jeshthamadh....

jeshtha=senior

madh= honey

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Reading this might help : acupuncturebrooklyn.com/unc...

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You people seem to be ayurvedacharyas

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lol patliputra...

But Cjuan seems to be most learned in TCM....

he is not answering.....but I am sure he is master in that field....plus on some higher spiritual plateau..

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    I heard    that  but    since I    never     use   any   thing`   except  homeopathy       I      didn't     use   that . I    heard     about  Yashtimadhu     from     my     grandmother .   I    wanted`   clarification  and    thank    you     people     for   the    input.

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u`    got    it  right     but    not   because    of    the    reason   given   by   you   ,  but  because  of   the        matter.       I                am`  not`   proficient      in`  computer   operation.

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yes     ,my   dear  friend

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Not      the   need   . By   mistake     once   and`  by   anger   once    I   unsubscribed     Then    I`   started  with  this    id . This  time   I  wouldn't   do   the`  same  mistake.

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Any    way   congrats`   Mr  Sherlockholms

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Doing same....

but still need more time to reach to your level of ketogenic diet....

have u ever done your liver scan??? what are the results??

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LOL anup.....you are hath yogi.....

or may I call it Keto yogi.....

I know Keto yoga is not simple.....

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Age 58

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See how things moved from diabetes to philosophy to Vedanta to life and death. So diabetes or no diabetes every thing said is eternal truth. I compliment all the participants on their profound knowledge and wisdom. For the first time perhaps such scholarly discourse has taken place in this forum. Thanks enlightening us all.

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