Uncontrolled Sugar Levels even with insulin regimen

I am 55 yrs and have been diabetic for 30 years starting with type 2. Progressed from oral medications to insulin therapy. Past couple of years, my sugar levels have been uncontrolled even with insulin intake and metformin tablets. Every morning the fasting sugar is always above 225. Post Prandial jumps to 200 to 250, comes down to below 170 in 3 hours, but suddenly jumps back to above 250, even without eating anything. I eat very non-fatty food, measured quantity, mostly with green vegetables. My diet has been to the books. I exercise everyday either on treadmill or walk outside. I am under the supervision of an endocrinologist, but he keeps increasing the insulin units which is not really helping. I did some research and found that glucagon plays an important role, which might be dumping glucose into bloodstream whenever my sugar level goes below certain level. I thought it was only Dawn effect or Symogi effect in the early morning, but it seems to be occurring even during the day. Any information or help in what could be the cause and remedy? I have tried (and still on) okra water, fenugreek water, and bitter melon juice therapies in morning. Not helping at all.

49 Replies

  • dear chinna,

    is your weight within allowable limits? diabetic medicines are less successful in overweight people.

    good luck

  • Yes, I am 170 lbs ht 5' 8" with close to normal BMI.

  • ===============

    this is the mistake everybody does.

    the 170 pounds and 5 ft 8inch is

    25. 8 bmi .you are 0.8 bmi higher and is overweight.

    you need to have only a weight that corresponds to 20/21 bmi

    132 pounds and

    20 bmi will be better as you are a diabetic.

    can you read


    good luck

    also read the article from web md , all the 3 three

    please read my post regarding weight loss yesterday

    good luck

  • I am diabetic, 44 yrs old female, height 5'4", weight 152lbs. how much my correct weight and bmi should be? Also pls advise me what LCHF diet should I consume for Breakfast, Lunch and Dinner. pls elaborate in detail. your advise will be highly appreciated.

  • A BMI of 22 is about 9 stone 1 lb @ 5'4".

    Keep your grains, cereals, legumes, fruit, root vegetables or tubers to less than an 8 fluid oz cup per meal.

    Eat a sensible amount of greens.

    Less than a palm-size of fish, seafood, eggs, meat, game or poultry at each meal.

    Make up the balance with natural fat such as ghee, butter, double cream, soft cheese, olive oil, avocado, nuts, coconut, lard, crackling, duck fat, goose fat, or other meat fats, sufficient to allow a slight, measurable weight loss each week.

  • Thnx for the suggestion. I will appreciate if someone in the forum could tell me exactly the list of Indian foods which fall into LCHF category. what to eat at Breakfast, lunch and dinner. thanks.

  • You can check for a detailed instruction about how to Switch to LCHF and also real meals that diabetics on LCHF have been posting on dlife.in This is for indians.

    If you are not Indian you can check diabetesforum.com

  • What is your daily diet?

  • Breakfast: A cup of oats in the morning (in boiled water with onion, fenugreek, green chillies); Lunch: Green Salad with soup or Poha (small cup - without potato) or grilled chicken (not fried); Dinner: 3 idlis or dosa or 2 wheat rotis. In between I do take mid-day snacks of almonds. Drink lemon tea. Take Okra water in empty stomach early morning. Avoid rice, pasta, bread and other high carb items. Dinner will include curry of lentils and vegetables or chicken/fish, but nothing fried. Daily walk for 30 to 45 min covering 1 to 1.5 miles

  • For your high BS levels further carb restriction is needed. As you are non vegetarian you can replace poha, idli, dosa roti with omlet. Mostly diabetics needs to restrict grains which contains highest quantity of carbs. Best way to control your BS levels is to switch to LCHF diet.

    If you switch to Low Carb High Fat diet then it will be more easy for you to adopt that diet as you are non vegetarian.



  • My doctor says to have a glass of milk just before going to bed.

    My mother's sugar used to be high in fasting and after the break first it increases minimally. Eg: Fasting blood sugar will be 250 and it will be 265 after the breakfirst. Which means sugars are high in the mornings.

    Doctor explains that the food gets digested by mid night and insulin will have its impact till morning. When Insulin is still working sugar level becomes low as no glucose to process further. Since milk has high protein, it digest late and work against insulin impact to maintain the sugars constantly. Take milk for a week in the night and check your sugars in the morning. Hope this helps.

  • Thanks for the guidance. Will try and let you know

  • Milk at bed time maintain the sugarlebel from going down near abt 3 Am.if fast sugar is much more then no need to take milk at bed time..

  • Milk at bed time maintain the sugarlebel from going down near abt 3 Am.if fast sugar is much more then no need to take milk at bed time..

  • Dear Mr. Chinna,

    I would like to share my experience about my Type-2 diabetes from which I am suffering for the last 4 months. May be some what helpful to you or a lesson to me also seeing your problem. All experts on this forum provide very good information. I use to follow some of them. Before 4 month my fasting was 330 and PP 417. I contacted physician when I suddenly had a problem of blurred vision. He immediately recommended to take "Tradjenta" (Tradjenta is strongly prohibited without medical supervision as it may lead to death also. Source: tradjenta.com/) and Gluconorm PG2. I took these medicines for 10 days and my random test came down to 64. I was in great depression and was not able to take any decision. But this forum helped me a lot. I only used to read the articles and never posted any comment. This is first time I am writing here. I left all medicines and started to take fenugreek powder made in home. Everything was OK for 15 days and one day I consumed Beer. Sugar level increased to 180 (Random) and maintained the same level for 4 days. One gentleman on this forum posted that Nayantara plant leaf help to lower sugar level drastically. I consumed three leaves in morning in empty stomach, three in evening and three in next morning. Sugar level came down to 80(Random) in evening. Same day I came to this forum and I read one article in which it was written that do not see diabetes as a disease but as a disorder. Study diabetes and you will be able to control it yourself. I started research on this and my main topic was the root cause of diabetes. After study I came to know that the root cause is the damage of beta cells. I started research on how to regenerate/repair beta cells and how to bring the sugar level in normal condition naturally. I found lots of herbal remedies both Indian and foreigner. I made a list of herbals and started to search original one. Ultimately I got all things that I wanted. Meanwhile I used to consume Nayantara plant leaf and fenugreek powder less or much to control sugar level. Now I use to take following items for the last 45 days:-

    1) Colustrum (Powder of cow milk) -- 1 capsule twice daily

    2) Noni -- 1 capsule twice daily

    3) Spirulina -- 1 capsule twice daily

    4) Ganoderma -- 1 capsule twice daily

    5) Neem oil -- 1 capsule twice daily

    6) Flax oil -- 1 capsule twice daily

    7) Meshashringi--1 capsule twice daily

    8) Amla Juice -- 20ml (morning and evening)

    9) Aloe vera Juice -- 20ml (morning and evening)

    10) Pancreatinum 3x (Homeopath) : 4 tab 3 times daily.

    Besides these I go on walk in the morning for half an hour, do excercise and pranayam for the next 1/2 hour.

    And now I have the following result.

    Sugar level (Fasting) : 89 as on 31/08/2014

    (PP) : 137 as on 31/08/2014

    My life style:

    • Proper Breakfast, good Lunch and a light dinner.

    • I avoid fasting or long gaps between meals, avoided excess oily, spicy foods and fermented things like bread, toast, bakery items, maida.

    • I avoid foods having excess sugar and salt like papad, pickle etc, fast foods like pizza, burger, chilled food items and drinks / soda / alcohol.

    • I avoid taking curd at night.

    • I started to take seasonal fruits instead of juices, protein supplements like daal, dairy, nuts etc. daily and included garlic 5-10 cloves daily.

    • I remain physically active.

    • I use to eat the meals slowly and mindfully without indulging in other activities while taking meals.

    • 7 hr sleep daily at night and avoid day sleep,

    • I use to sleep at night before 10.30 pm and avoid staying awake at night.

    • I have completely avoided stress and anxiety and always remain in happy mood.

    • I have eliminated simple carbohydrates like white sugar, fast foods, soft drinks, etc. from diet but use to take potatoes and rice once or twice in a week in a limit amount.

    • For sweet tea I use to take stevia tablet.

    If anyone have any comment or recommendation for me I shall welcome your opinion by my heart.



  • The capsuls brand and manufacturers cost for a day is it not too much 14 capsuls + juce 80ml + homiopath please explain and guide to follow. thanks

  • Hello vrindavan,

    The cost will come 25 to 30 rupees per day. But as i feel it is well worth. All these are not medicines. You can see levels as food supplements on the products. Actually due to abstrain from lots of food material there may become lack of minerals and vitmins in our body. The products whatever i have mentioned not only control diabetes but fulfill all required vitamins and minerals. You can see on google also about these products. These are name of pure herbals except no. 10. Please study in deep about these herbs and decide. I have explained my own experience.


  • Thanks for reply please let me know how can i order for all the capsuls from singal supplier.

  • Ranjeet. Thanks for a detailed reply and sincerely appreciate you taking time for this. There are a lot of items you have mentioned here and in simplistic terms, I follow some of these diligently. I have been diabetic for past 25+ years. Initially was able to control with yoga and diet alone. But then went on oral medication, diet, and exercise, which eventually progressed to insulin intake, oral medication, diet, and exercise. Now I feel like it is out of control and on researching on internet, found that the interplay of Glucogan and Insulin play important role in maintaining glucose level. There is currently no Glucogan based therapy. All therapies are focused on increasing of decreasing insulin, whereas these two play opposite roles. I will try some of the things you have mentioned here like sleeping well in night,

  • Hello ranjeet , the following materials where i will get .because i can use and get benfit

    Colustrum (Powder of cow milk) -- 1 capsule twice daily

    2) Noni -- 1 capsule twice daily

    3) Spirulina -- 1 capsule twice daily

    4) Ganoderma -- 1 capsule twice daily

    5) Neem oil -- 1 capsule twice daily

    6) Flax oil -- 1 capsule twice daily

    7) Meshashringi--1 capsule twice daily

    8) Amla Juice -- 20ml (morning and evening)

    9) Aloe vera Juice -- 20ml (morning and evening)

    10) Pancreatinum 3x (Homeopath) : 4 tab 3 times daily.



  • Hello velmurugan,

    From 1 to 6 you can get from Vestiz distributor,

    7 you can get from Any aurved shop made of Himalaya drugs.

    8 and 9 you can get from any aurved shop or baba Ramdev shop but they should be of good quality.

    10 you can get from any Homeopath shop but it should be made in Germany.


  • China,

    You are not alone in your ordeal.There are innumerable number of diabetics all over the world who share your condition.The doctors go on increasing insulin doses and condition gets worse from bad.In simple words the conventional management of dm has failed.

    So during last 10-15 yrs.many researchers have started to look in other directions about causation and management of diabetes.The conventional wisdom that "Diabetes is a chronic and progressive disease "is being substuted by thinking that Diabetes is reversible and curable disease.Many researches support this view but a lot of work is still to done.

    I will not go into details as of now,I can only say that there is nothing to be despaired ,and light is visible beyond the tunnel.

    Mean while I put forward a few suggestions for your consideration. (1) your diet-- as per your own version you are taking low fat diet,which means that that you are taking carbohydrate rich diet.So high intake will naturally raise bs.So you should drastically cut down carb intake.To balance in lost calories increase fat intake,avoiding transfats. Fruits-- stop taking all fruits as they are full of fructose .Say NO to all packaged food.Eat protein in moderation.Add nuts like peanut,walnut and almonds to your breakfast. Eat plenty of green leafy veg.etc.Other dietary restrictions for diabetics must be followed.

    (2) excercise you are doing ,so please continue.Some intensity or against resistance excercise is very much preferred .

    (3) Medication-- Acarbose group of medicine and DPP4 inhibitors or exenetide( very costly ) are preferred medicines for you.

    BUT these are only suggestions,DO NOT use without consulting your treating doctor.

    With best wishes.

  • Chinna,

    Please tell about HbA1c readings.Also about complications.

  • Past 3 years the HbA1c has been between 8.5 and 13 despite being on insulin regimen, low carb diet, eating salads (greens and five colors), taking almonds (5 - 6 per day), consuming okra water, fenugreek water in the morning, adding cinnamon to food whenever possible. I have tried everything. The problem is as the sugar level approaches 130 or below, it suddenly shoots up to 250 and above without any food consumption. Any insight?

  • As I have written diet plays a major part in diabetes management.I do not know your perception of low carb,if in real sense it is low carb and you say you are taking low fat diet.Then there is some thing wrong as it is quite a contradiction.So please to clear things,can you share details of your diet,morning tonight without omitting any thing.Obviously problem is your diet.

  • Any suggestions on some LCHF indian food items?

  • kindly read through my presentations here carefully.

    your problem is similar to somogyi effect.

    consult a diabetologist and go for insulin pump if you can afford to it.

    for reducing weight you can first go by the calorie limitation.

    if you still fail go for low carb diet. .

    it is recomended for a short term for weight reduction.

    not for diabetes.

    good luck

  • Any suggestions on Indian food items that are LCHF? I understand that eggs, fish, chicken, etc are LCHF, what about recommendations on lentils, grains, etc. that are from India? Would greatly appreciate recommendations

  • LCHF means No grain, No flour, No sugar and also they include No salt (sodium). But the book "Life without bread" permits 6 bread units, ie., 72 grams Net Carbs (Net Carbs = digestible carbs; Total carbs - Fiber = net carbs). What they suggest is to have the carbs from vegetables. I also feel it as a better option. Even the lentils contain 50-55 % carbs. So, one has to judge for himself, take lentils, grains sparingly and make necessary substitutions. Hope this will clarify to some extent. - mjprasad

  • anumans doctors explanation fits better for somogy effect.

    for somogy effect taking protein and fat foods in the night is good.


    peanut butter]

    , and reducing bed insulin etc

    are the treatments.

    i doubt milk is a good choice as it contains carbs.

    doctor or nutritionist --

    any food addition has to be calorie limited for the person.

    diabetes medicines will not work unless diet is properly controlled , quantity and the balance..

    it is a paradox that

    inspite of that the entire world of scientists telling that ,

    diabetes india forum members are adamant that they will never talk of weight reduction or balancing the food.

    in dawn effect

    not to take any food after dinner is solution.

    but first of all

    let us decide if if chinna has which effect. set aside cinnas other time glucose rises.

    also with out fail reduce the weight.

    "Typically dawn phenomenon is treated by avoiding intake of carbohydrates at bedtime, adjusting how much insulin or medication is administered, switching to other medications or using an insulin pump."


  • for chinnas problem

    night glucose measurments 2/3 am will give a clue

  • Not so fast my friends. What I have observed is definitely a progress. But I would wait, monitor, and report to have any conclusions or make the fat lady sing. As I wrote earlier, I suspected that my increased insulin intake (endocrinologist kept increasing it) kicked some process to do with glucogan that kept dumping sugar into my body. So, I took the risk of reducing insulin (without consulting my doctor which is a risky and sometimes stupid), and switched to LCHF diet as you folks recommended. But I still keep with my metformin (half the dosage than my doctor's prescription) and exercise program. Also, just so you know, past two days, I stopped taking vitamin supplements of Alpha-Lipoic Acid and Biotin (which are claimed all over internet to help manage sugar levels). Thanks for all your suggestions and recommendations. I will keep reporting my results so we can collectively interpret the treatment results and guide others.

  • It seems that your diet is playing a major part in your blood sugar readings. Now a days it is not a problem to keep the bs normal provided you take LCHF Low Carb High Fat diet and if you stick to that you can maintain just with metformin avoiding insulin even. Mine is the same case and as a vegetarian I depend on edible coconut oil, raw coconut meat, Butter, eggs, plenty of vegetables. Pl. visit these sites: Diabetescure101.org; secondopinions.co.uk; Dietdoctor.com. It is advisable to switch over to LCHF slowly minimising the net carbs. Wish you Good control.

  • Thank you very much. Just in two days, the LCHF has helped me drastically. I even reduced my insulin intake, but continuing metformin. Hope to see the trend continuing. Will measure and report.

  • Decided to report today. I am brand new to LCHF. But today is my third day on LCHF diet and seeing miracles. My fasting BS this morning was 84 (never ever saw this number in past 5 years of being on insulin) and lunch time PP BS was 122. I have taken only 2 units of insulin thus far for the day and it is already well past lunch time. Yesterday, I had a total intake of 8 units for entire day as opposed to 18 - 26 units I was asked to take by doctors using sliding scale. I have not changed any other life style activities except switching to LCHF and reducing the insulin intake. Of course, I have started chewing each mouthful for about 20 seconds before swallowing. Continuing with my metformin and daily walking regimen. Will keep reporting. I have a beautiful graph that shows BS readings, and insulin intakes, which will be a compelling story for LCHF. Will publish it after a week of seeing the progress. My early thanks to all the folks out here who gave valuable guidance. Oh! I feel energetic and seeing lot more accomplished at work.

  • Thanks for your valuable suggestion on LCHF, which looks like is working on me. But will continue the post on status whenever possible. Interestingly enough yesterday (Sunday 07SEP2014), in Fareed Zakharia's GPS show in CNN, this topic was discussed with CNN's Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta, who confirmed that the 20+ years myth about low fat food was a mistake due to a US Senator taking the results of two completely independent studies on heart disease and high fat food and misinterpreting them to give a wrong propaganda on high fat = heart disease. The very recent combined more elaborate research has shown that high fat (not all types) is not equal to heart disease, but high carb and high sugar are the real major cause. Dr. Gupta even said that our human body is not engineered to handle sugars, but in recent decades we have gotten to the habit of consuming 140 kg of sugar per year. Also there was a one hour program by a California doctor in PBS channel last Sunday on the same topic, in which he emphasized to cut down on carb and sugar, but increase the calories from fat and protein. There seems to be increasing awareness of this topic. BTW, I am not an evangelist of anything, but a guy who came here looking for a solution for my uncontrolled BS problem. I will speak out the truth based on my BS readings. Also, will have to do my CBC panel and Lipid work by Dec to see how this has impacted by Lipids. Because, in last month's test, my total cholesterol was 158 with 47 LDL. Let me report on the numbers in December.

  • Mchinna

    Good to see that you are switching over to LCHF diet.

    Only caution here is that you need to monitor BS regularly while on LCHF diet as you are on insulin.

  • True. I already faced it today when my hands started shivering and head sweating, which made me realize that my BS has gone low. To confirm, pricked my finger and did the test. The BS was at 65. Had a chocolate and pack of 10 almonds with me that came in handy. As I mentioned earlier, it is 5:20 PM EST here and to this time today, I have only taken 2 units of insulin. Absolute miracle for a guy who has been taking up to 26 units daily (prescribed to go up to 45). Will continue the post. Although I am not sure what it is, there is definitely something to this LCHF diet, which is the only change I did after listening to suggestions from this group. Remember, I have been diabetic for 30+ years now.

  • Better keep pure glucose with you for such situations. Glucose doesn't need any processing and is absorbed rapidly. 2-3gms would be sufficient.

    Keep posting how you progress.

    Agree with Axeffect regarding insulin.

  • Join art. of. Living. Happiness. Programme. Follow it regularly

  • Managing A1C effectively but too costly.

  • Folks! Many thanks to all of you who shared insight into this. I have got to tell you, that the shit sugar that was out of control for past 3 years, I am seeing some signs of improvement. I did two things. I reduced the intake of insulin (Novolog pen-aspart rapid acting) from 18 - 26 units/day to 2 - 8 units. The second thing I switched to LCHF for just past two days. The results are amazing. However, I did add fenugreek and cinnamon to my diet. Here are my readings today: Morning fasting - 107 (Never saw this number in 3 years). 1.5 hours after breakfast (Protein drink with apple, fenugreek, and cinnamon) the sugar was only at 129. Last night for dinner - had an omelette with two eggs, and one dosa. This is definitely an outstanding progress for me. Will continue the LCFH diet and reduce insulin (but continuing metformin, diet, and exercise) and will post the results. This forum is awesome and folks around the world sharing their knowledge to beat this diabetic crap is marvelous. Now I believe with this collective wisdom, we can beat it. Please continue posting and helping as many as possible around the world.

  • Dear AxEffect, Bullworker is not good.To the best of my knowledge I stopped using it since 1988, One of my sports instructor advised me that it loose our muscle tone and even if we pinch or pull with our fingers muscle it comes elasticated. Kindly confirm it with our members.

  • hello , now how are you . Your case proves that the sugar spike is not exactly because of food alone . There is some invisible or un explainable reason behind this enigma , known as diabetes.

  • He already switched to LCHF and benefited within matter of days, even after cutting down insulin dose drastically from 18-26 to 2-8 range, if you see the entire thread

  • Insulin or Lchf all work as palliatives .The real reason has to be found out and solution has to be given .The problem is pollution of air , food ,water and radiation from .electro magnetic waves generated by modern gadgets all apart from that is present atmosphere.

  • One cannot live in the caves in Himalayas and be cut off from modern gadgets to avoid pollution, radiation, etc etc. So all this talk about pollution etc aka "Toxic Environment" is irrelevant. Root cause is HIGH CARBS LOW FAT Nonsense. Mchinna's case also proves it one more time -- even after 3 decades of diabetes history, LCHF helped.

  • time would prove as to what is nonsense and what is sense.

  • It has already proven many times. One just need to get abreast with all bits of info rather than looking at something with a dated (and failed) perspective. Someone posted recently how he went off drugs after 16 years of being a diabetic on drugs. If year after year, medical reports show no abnormality on LCHF, only a voodoo magic can cause long-term problems.

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