Just recently I have had indirect contact with a physio who is strongly of the opinion that C25K is too fast in its progression for some people. . She is recommending, specifically for the person involved ( and this is a person who previously ran frequently and considerable distances but who picked up a very painful knee issue) ,very slow runs of only 30 seconds in lieu of week 1 runs for 2 or 3 weeks, only twice a week, before any increase and at each increase reducing the increase and extending the time at that level. Part of the thinking as well as very gradual and non damaging increases is to get the form better, to make sure arms and head and back are all aligned and 30 seconds is not too long to start forgetting to check how and where all body parts are!
Whilst it’s not exciting and dynamic in the way the progression of C25k is, running in this very gradual increase way would no doubt have served me well. I realised after three weeks of post graduation consolidation (and this was at a very gentle pace and not great distance)that I had shin splints which is apparently caused by too fast progression. I do emphasise, I really ran very slowly, enjoyed the feeling of being able to run and breathe, never pushed myself to run faster, only ran on alternate days, 3 times per week. I have always walked most days for about 5k and done exercise classes so was reasonably fit before I started, just never been a runner. I did warm ups and cool downs although now I am concentrating more on the post run stretches than I did during the c25k. It was a blow to be knocked off course and I haven’t yet built myself back to where I was, I’m trying to be very gradual and patient.
My point in posting this is not to knock the programme which I think is wonderful but maybe to suggest that new runners are cautioned to think about their fitness and to tailor it to be more gentle increases , prepare for it in doing a gradually increasing walking/running pre programme, or repeat weeks to build to the ready to run further point. Maybe older people like me need to have a slightly different approach to those younger for whose bodies it might be less of a demand/shock/adjustment .
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JeremiahObadiah
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🍏Thanks for these thoughts and I am sure admin will comment further. I appreciate your concerns!
To reassure you, in the guide to running C25K it is emphasised that “you are in control “ If you need to repeat a run or a week you can. It also states that most people will reach 9:9 but not be doing 5K yet..
No one has to move on until they are ready. I personally repeated each run for the first two weeks when I started. Anyone new to running or any other exercise is advised to check with their GP first.
Anyone who experiences pain or discomfort is advised to consult a physio or GP. I had an unrelated to running back problem last year & was advised to stop running temporarily & then start from scratch.
I think the many, many people who have come through the program successfully, will all tell you they had to repeat a run here or there.
Hi and thank you for your reply and thoughts. Sorry, I didn’t see this before I replied to Cmoi but much of what I said to them is also relevant.
I loved doing C25k, it was a total joy . I didn’t have to repeat any runs, it all felt very doable , I felt great and I was very careful. It wasn’t until my 3rd consolidation week that I realised the dragging feeling in my shin was something wrong. I had never got beyond 30mins and was only up to nearly but not 4k .
I’m getting back to it now but I’m pacing it all differently so I build very slowly. For example, I won’t go from 5 to 8 mins but will go to 6mins. I loved the App and I enjoy the supportive and happy nature of the forum and I have great respect for all the admin. I don’t want to upset a tried and tested approach to running , I just wanted to share my experience and the somewhat sobering thoughts of the physio.
maybe to suggest that new runners are cautioned to think about their fitness and to tailor it to be more gentle increases , prepare for it in doing a gradually increasing walking/running pre programme, or repeat weeks to build to the ready to run further point.
I take your point JeremiahObadiah , but the How to run C25K guide at healthunlocked.com/couchto5..., pinned on this forum, makes those points and more. They're also reiterated as appropriate in responses to forum posts, particularly when it's admins or ambassadors who are responding.
Personally I needed to feel I was progressing during C25K, so would most likely have given up if the programme had been significantly longer or more incremental than it already was. There again I was only 59 when I started C25K, so not really an older runner. That said, I loathe pigeonholing people by age. Overall I'm much fitter and more active now that I was when I was younger!
I was 74 when I started (still am). I did W1 for three weeks before I felt able to move on, then W2 for two weeks, and so on. I started early February and finished mid July, although I had to take a couple of months out with a broken toe. I felt in control of my own progression all the way through, but I realise not everyone is comfortable with that.
I do agree, the progress was a great feeling and was its own incentive to keep going .
However, I do , on reflection, feel that whilst yes the HU forum has plenty of sensible and practical advice, people are easily over enthusiastic about their progress.
We often see people saying such things as.’ I carried on for x mins’ or ‘I’ve been on a break do I need to restart’ and whilst no one wants to deter or dampen that joyous feeling when realising that running is not just possible, it has actually been achieved, it does need to be tempered with appropriate,for them, muscle and body conditioning.
The App does encourage enthusiasm and getting carried along by euphoria is a potential injury trigger and is a real blow as and when it occurs .
Whilst totally agree that ‘ageism’ is unwelcome, age is also a human condition and our muscles and particularly our tendons are often less elastic and more prone to damage as we get older just as our bones are more brittle and our hearts are more vulnerable.
I just wanted to raise this as the physio said she had had to help several people who had picked up injuries through the stress of accelerating through the runs in 9 weeks and their bodies not actually being adjusted sufficiently. No doubt they had not used this forum and had not had the sage advice built up here over time and with experience.
I didn’t want to rock any boats or question HU wisdom, I just wanted to pass on this cautionary point of view.
I agree with Cmoi , for me 9 weeks felt like a target I could visualise. That said, several weeks post completion I developed a knee injury , wrong shoes for my gait. We are all different and yes, some people will extend the runs, cut out the rest day (always thought they should be called repair days) but I suspect the slower progressing programme would be equally ignored. Best advice I think is hydrate, take rest days, more if needed, and don't run on an injury.
But yours was a thought provoking post, so thanks 😊
It really helps me to think of non-run days as “recovery days”. It’s a really small thing but it makes a big difference to whether I can be bothered to do strength training, eat well and remember to stay hydrated! When I was off injured, reframing that as rehab to get back to running helped so much with staying positive. Words matter! Repair days are an excellent way to think of it…I’m nicking that!
Thanks for a thoughtful post. I’ve had a similar conversation with my physio (during a horrific sports massage-the distraction was welcome!) about the risks of picking up any ready made exercise program and blindly following it without adjusting where necessary.
I think I speak for the whole team when I say we really, really try to encourage posters of all ages to take things slowly and listen to their bodies, taking extra rest days and repeating where they need or want to. I’d always happily receive any feedback on times where I hadn’t done that-occasionally things read differently written down to how they were intended when the tone is lost.
Couch to 5k is a great programme that’s tried and tested but we’re all different in our fitness backgrounds and health challenges. I really hope we say that often enough that people here know they are in control of how they progress. It’s absolutely not right for some runners to build at the standard pace. I don’t think that means the programme needs changing, but people should feel empowered to alter the timings to go more slowly and that doesn’t at all mean they’re doing badly or failing somehow. It’s difficult to see how anyone could write a programme like couch to 5k that would suit absolutely everyone of different ages and injury backgrounds.
Where injury or pain is concerned, we always tell people not to run through pain and to seek expert, real life advice. Always. Coming back from injury can involve really specific advice, for example I was expecting to follow a plan like your friend, but I was told continuous runs were better and I was allowed to run quickly as long as I limited my total run time.
I’m not at all saying that Couch to 5k is perfect, or that we as the admin team never get things wrong. We’re all really passionate about slow and steady running. We’re also really passionate about people finding a way of running that’s both enjoyable and enables them to stay injury free long term-that will be really personal to them. I hope that comes across in the way we interact with posters on this board and support them to find their way through the programme.
I have to admit, I’m a little bit confused because I think the “status quo” here is that slow is to be celebrated, progress at your own pace, your journey is your own and a cautious build is better than spending time on the injury couch. If that’s not coming across as clearly as it should, it’s really useful to know that.
I’ve spotted in your reply to Cmoi above…
We often see people saying such things as.’ I carried on for x mins’ or ‘I’ve been on a break do I need to restart’ and whilst no one wants to deter or dampen that joyous feeling when realising that running is not just possible, it has actually been achieved, it does need to be tempered with appropriate, for them, muscle and body conditioning.
We can’t control what people write about their runs but every time a poster has extended beyond the prescribed program run time, one of the team will gently encourage them to stick to the programme timings. Sometimes posters aren’t very happy to be advised to hold themselves back (we’ve even had people leave the forum over this) and I often feel like a fun sponge, but I think we all feel a responsibility to point out the injury risk when you build too quickly. Again, if someone is restarting, we always advise caution.
By ‘status quo’ I was meaning to refer to the App and C25k as a separate thing to the HU forum of people discussing, sharing and encouraging others.
It is surprisingly difficult to convey precisely what one means in writing / replying to others and I fear I’ve dug a bigger hole for myself in trying to explain my intentions in starting this thread.
I just wanted to draw attention to the thoughts of a health professional and my own experience which seemed to echo her observations.
It is surprisingly difficult to convey precisely what one means in writing / replying to others and I fear I’ve dug a bigger hole for myself in trying to explain my intentions in starting this thread.
Oh man, the number of times I’ve done this! I think everyone has felt like they’ve been there at some point!
Fair enough, but what about all the people who did C25K and didn't end up injured as a result? The physio presumably didn't see them. No doubt she's right in saying that the programme didn't provide sufficient adjustment time for the people she's had to help. That doesn't make it a general truth.
The original C25K programme was created in 1996 by Josh Clark to get his "50-something" mother running: edition.cnn.com/2021/07/02/... Some years later NHS UK created podcasts, then the app, to support those wishing to start running.
However nobody on here, to the best of my knowledge, is or was actually involved in developing the NHS C25K podcasts or app. The admins and ambassadors on the C25K and sister forums are all unpaid volunteers. Health Unlocked, who host the forums, provide guidelines, and the volunteer teams do their best to support forum users and provide constructive, appropriate responses to posts.
Sometimes that's encouraging people to have more confidence in their abilities, or not to worry about repeating a week or not completing a run, sometimes it's suggesting that reining things in might be beneficial. Rejigging the actual programme timings, though, is not something the team can do.
It took me 2 years to graduate, sustaining several injuries along the way, including shin splints, knee, hip and ankle issues and plantar fasciitis. I had never run before and starting at 66, I could never have completed the programme in 9 weeks. I often repeated runs multiple times and had to go back to earlier weeks on many occasions but I did get there in the end.
No doubt, completing the programme in 9 weeks will be achievable for some but not for everyone and should be seen as a guideline and not a goal, just as running 5k in 30 minutes is only possible for some. My view is that regular running at a pace and distance that suits the individual should be key. I try to run 3 times a week but often only manage 2, and I don’t always run for 30 minutes. I average about 3.5km and am more than happy with that. To sum up I would say, warm up and cool down properly every time, go at your own pace, listen to your body and don’t compare yourself with others. Its not a competition, it’s your run. Hopefully then you will keep running, keep smiling.
I had a big ankle sprain just as I graduated C25K almost exactly three years ago. At my second physio session I asked if I should start again with week 1 of C25K. "No, nothing so strenuous as that!" was the reply.
It really is horses for courses. Many will indeed not be able to go straight into week 1, and something less energetic may be the way to start. That's why there are the Active10 and Strength and Flex forums in parallel with this one.
Thanks nowster 🙏👍🏽. Grabbing the opportunity to plug A10 and S&F, here are our forum descriptions and links 😃:
★★★ Strength and Flexibility Forum : S&F is all about our needs as runners and walkers, or generally needing a bit more strength and flexibility-related workouts in your life. It includes a NHS-associated five-week programme delivered through a series of podcasts. healthunlocked.com/strength...
★★★ Active10 : Active10 is for those who want to include regular walking into their daily lives, with a dedicated walking app for iOS and Android. healthunlocked.com/active10
Happy running, walking and working out, everyone. 😃😃😃💪👍🏽
I'm a coach, and have taken many ppl through C25k. In week 1, I tend to set a gentler interval of 30 sec run, 30 sec walk (× 14), and in place of the 3rd run that week, I ask participants to walk 5k. Week 2 its 45 sec run, 30 sec walk etc. and another 5k walk at the end of that week, (getting everyone to walk a bit faster). So the body gets used to adapting. Runners are more likely to stick with it through seeing a mix of progression & not ramping up too early. Completing a 5k walk gives a sense of achievement as well as building the aerobic base.What I find regardless of run/walk intervals is that most people run too fast in the run parts, huffing and puffing like a steam train. I spend much of the time getting them to slow down, (and then slow down a bit more). The programme is still 8 weeks long, and even then, for most, I encourage walk breaks of 30 seconds during the 5k.
C25k is a brilliant programme. As long as runners (athletes) understand that the 8 weeks is just the start of their bodies adapting. Then, make it fun, enjoyable and rewarding, which will get them to the finish line.
(And they are ALL runners, right from week 1. 😊.)
That's my take on it anyhow. Like anything in life, we are all starting from different places in terms of lifestyle, fitness, health etc. Adapt to suit, and sloooow is the new fast!
Hi. I am new back to this forum. I did the Couch to 5K in 2019 as a complete non-runner but having got into a regular walking pattern the year before.
I had to stop in the middle of the very last run of the nine week programme as I had such searing pain down the back of my leg and never got back to it.
In retrospect, I should have taken it all a bit more slowly, repeated weeks, taken more notice of my body twinges etc.
I understand that the app now has stretching exercises etc and it’s good to read of all the advice to listen to your body and progress at a pace that suits you without pushing it too much. This is what I am planning when I start again in September.
This is a really thought provoking post. I was one of those people who ran for a little longer on the later runs just because I could and it was easy and it felt amazing, and the I wondered why my knee started to hurt.
There's an important distinction between this forum (where you are gently encouraged to slow it down) and the app itself. I've had a few weeks off and since I've already used the c25 app a few times in bits and pieces, I'm starting running again using a different app. I feel as if there's maybe a bit more caution built into it, more emphasis that you need to take slowly, and there are certainly weeks where it has you walking a lot more than you run.
I think you're right that ideally there would be a bit more caution built into the app, and some idea of why you're encouraged to run slowly, but everything's a balance.
It is a balance... and that's why we not only plug the slow and steady approach, but also, so often missed, the importance of our strength and stamina work on some of our rest days..so many of our forum friends, do not realise just how running will affect the whole body and not just those legs... As CBDB has indicated in her reply above, we have so, so many resources on the S and F forum and yet folks never visit, until injury occurs...
I have to admit it was only when I reached week 9 that I discovered the forum and all the brilliant advice. If only I'd found it sooner I would have avoided so many stupid mistakes!
Everyone is an individual and I was forced to take a break earlier this summer with a knee injury (entirely self inflicted from ill advised star jumps on cobbles). On the advice of my chiropractor I started again at week 1 and have just this week run my first 30 mins pain free. I have experimented a bit and basically done what felt comfortable - if it hurts stop! What is evident is regular running is hugely beneficial to your cardiac health as I have got back to heart/lung fitness very quickly so my plan is to run when I can, not worry too much about distance and time and concentrate on listening to my body. Regular yoga and cycling keeps my joints supple and stretched and my mantra is any exercise is better than none - if you can’t run walk - it all helps
I completed the programme 14 months ago and it changed my life completely. I am sure as Cmoi says the physio may not see all the success stories. If you follow the guidelines that are there for you and take advice from the many supportive people on here it really helps. I was a non runner but now run regularly and have not suffered with injuries. I am sure any exercise has the potential for injuries and everyone is different. All I can say is it transformed my health and well being and this forum is amazing as a support mechanism.
I totally agree. C25K certainly can’t be a ‘one size fits all’.
When I started this three years ago, I intentionally repeated every single run because I knew my arthritic knee would thank me for it. I knew I needed to build up the muscles around the knee and stamina all round. So, it took me 18 weeks to complete, but I did it. I’m still run every other day around 4.5k and a little further on weekend runs, which are totally dictated by how my knee feels on any given day.
We should encourage participants to repeat runs, slow down and go at the pace which suits them. Take extra rest days and to coin a phrase I hear repeatedly, listen to YOUR body and not what others are doing.
There’s no hard and fast rules here, just your own.
Content on HealthUnlocked does not replace the relationship between you and doctors or other healthcare professionals nor the advice you receive from them.
Never delay seeking advice or dialling emergency services because of something that you have read on HealthUnlocked.
W9R3 - who’d of thought! 
I thought this was supposed to get easier?
Faster or further - your thoughts please
Who would have thought It?
Thoughts please
