wk5 hr too high

[johnny8oy57]

hi anyone's help/advice, I am on WK 5 and cannot see how on earth I can run the final 20min run, i am aged 65 soon and my hr goes to 120-130 in just the 5min walk at 2mph then 5 min run at3mph to 158-162 and breathing heavy even slowed down to 2.4 mph cannot see how can run for 20mins when just 5 is so hard. been training for 4 months now and don't seem to be getting any better helppppp..ty

[Instructor57 Graduate]

Hi ,I notice you posted previously about HR concerns .

I replied to that post with a link to our HR FAQ that you may find useful.

I also notice that on one of your replies in the thread to John_W that you commented on medication .

One of the side effects of this particular medication you mentioned is raised or irregular heart rate .

We are of course not medically trained so I would suggest that talking this through with your GP might be the best advice initially.

[johnny8oy57 in reply to Instructor57]

Yes ive looked at that link cant see how i can run any slower, running so slow is actually harder than running faster and no i feel ok during and afterwards other than badly out of breath, would it help if maybe i just stuck at walking for a decent length until maybe my heart rate improved in time. My concern is not my health just the fact that i dont seem to be getting any better or much stronger.

[johnny8oy57 in reply to johnny8oy57]

Hi Admin, ok just had a go at wk5r2 walking at 1.4mph running at 2mph, i got down to last 8min run but stopped at 5mins hr was 166 out of breath muscles crying, i think i will repeat this for maybe a month or until it gets easier rather than try and keep going, what do you think?...ty

[Instructor57 Graduate in reply to johnny8oy57]

FORGET THE NUMBERS!

As I mentioned earlier , the medication you are on can often produce a higher or irregular heart rate !

As far as you breathing is concerned all you need to do is slow it down to a conversational pace, again, the number is irrelevant.

If you are at a conversational pace then that is ideal for maximum benefit to both your strength and stamina.

It is counterproductive to try and go faster untill you have developed your aerobic base .

You also say your muscles are screeming !

Are you fully hydrated ?

Are you drinking around 2.5 litres a day ?

This can make a huge difference

[Oldfloss Administrator Graduate]

Do take the advice given to you by Instructor57 . It is very important that you get the correct advice, re medication , from your GP.

If he gives you then all clear, then you may be able to see how to move forward.

There are strategies that can support your slow and steady running, but best wait until you find out what is going on

[FargoH Graduate]

Not sure if this helps but I found that running slower helped a lot. Even so slow that other runners greet me with "Are you all right?". 😂😂. Wish you all the best for the 20 mins.

[IannodaTruffe Mentor]

Well done on your progress.

If I told you that W5R5 was the shortest workout since W3, perhaps you would view it differently. This FAQ Post may allay your fears healthunlocked.com/couchto5... as it breaks down the challenge.

If you are concerned about your heart rate please consult your GP, but unless you feel ill either while running or afterwards, or you get palpitations or do not recover soon afterwards, then you are probably fine, as pointed out in the FAQ Post mentioned by Instructor57 healthunlocked.com/couchto5...

You are probably better off just ignoring all the numbers for both heart rate and pace and just listening to your body.

Can you speak aloud, clear, ungasping sentences as you run?.........if not, you are going too fast.

An easy conversational pace is the most effective to build your stamina and endurance........faster is not necessarily better. It doesn't matter if you can walk faster, you will be developing your body and speed will come in time.

For extra information on how our bodies change as we age, this FAQ Post may also be helpful healthunlocked.com/couchto5...

It sounds as if you are getting anxious about your running, which is counterproductive. Relax and celebrate what you can do.

[johnny8oy57 in reply to IannodaTruffe]

Hi Ian, ok just had a go at wk5r2 walking at 1.4mph running at 2mph, i got down to last 8min run but stopped at 5mins hr was 166 out of breath muscles crying, i think i will repeat this for maybe a month or until it gets easier rather than try and keep going, what do you think?...ty

[IannodaTruffe Mentor in reply to johnny8oy57]

Forget the numbers.

Just make sure that you can speak aloud clear ungasping sentences as you run............ everything else will take care of itself.

Tim

[IannodaTruffe Mentor in reply to johnny8oy57]

Have you seen this youtu.be/9L2b2khySLE(Not working as expected?)

[johnny8oy57 in reply to IannodaTruffe]

Hi Ian yes just looked and yes i do try to run like that but even at my 2mph obviously still going too fast my hr is always in yellow or red even off scale, must be why im not getting any better so will try and go even slower but think its best to pause my c25k at least until i get stronger/better just maybe throw in a repeat of wk5r2 now and again to see the progress, what do you think? and thanks for your time, a bit of my history is i ran cross country for lancs when at school and i played footy till 42 just maybe expecting far too much from myself. thanks

colourful

[IannodaTruffe Mentor in reply to johnny8oy57]

Can you speak aloud, clear, ungasping sentences as you run?.........if not, you are going too fast for your current fitness level.

An easy conversational pace is the most effective to build your stamina and endurance........faster is not necessarily better.

Stop tracking your pace and HR and slow down.

Tim.

[Daiwalker in reply to IannodaTruffe]

I agree with IannodaTruffe, it sounds like you've gone number blind. Let your body talk to you.

[John_W Graduate Ambassador]

Hey Johnny

Forgetting about your heart rate for a moment, how do you actually feel after 5 minutes of 'running' ?

Also, have you considered using a treadmill ?

[johnny8oy57 in reply to John_W]

Hi John yes this is on a treadmill and how i feel 5 mins of running at 2.4 to 3 mph is very hard work im so out of breath and muscles screaming STOP but feel fine, i know everyone says slow down but running at that pace is just as hard if not harder than running at 4mph, i was expecting to be able to do it easily by now but dont seem to be improving, I was thinking about putting my training on hold and try walking for longer in the hope of building stamina and bettering hr rate, am just getting so down because of the lack of improvement..ty

[John_W Graduate Ambassador in reply to johnny8oy57]

OK, let's take this step by step , literally!

Your treadmill - the speed is in miles per hour, yes?

What's your brisk walking (warm-up) speed ?

[johnny8oy57]

hiya yes all the things you say are my reasons also, i was just expecting to be improving i am running at 2.4 to 3mph cant see how i can run any slower as it is harder at that pace than 4mph, im getting so out of breath in 5 mins and was expecting to be loads better stronger 5 mins is great effort can only just make it and was expecting to do it easily after 4 months, i just think maybe there is another routine that could help give me more stamina or control over my hr because there is absolutely no way i could run for 20 mins at the mo...ty

[johnny8oy57 in reply to johnny8oy57]

just one more thing I'm getting my footy legs back, sexy.. lol so its not all bad eh

[johnny8oy57]

yes mph it does have kph and mph on buttons but measures in mph goes up in increments of 1/10 if using +button, i walk at today 1.4mph ran at 2mph, im not kidding its hard, breathing heavy for w5r2, my graph today, i have decided to pause c25k and run even slower and try n keep hr at bout 130 for a few weeks and maybe redo this run now and again to see if it improves, ive been training of my own accord and doing c25k for 4 months now and think i should be able to do these runs with my eyes shut without worrying about hr going to stupid heights but its just not happening so gonna slow it down even lower than 2mph???? to see what develops. thanks for your help.

colourful

[IannodaTruffe Mentor in reply to johnny8oy57]

How do you know that your heart rate is going to "stupid heights "?

Have you had your maximum HR formally assessed?

The figures and zones are just averages, as pointed out in the FAQ post about HR that has already been linked to, and until you know your actual, as opposed to theoretical max HR, then they mean very little.

Can you brisk walk for thirty minutes, as recommended in the guide to the plan? healthunlocked.com/couchto5.... If not, then that might be a more appropriate place to start your training, possibly following the Active 10 plan that is linked to in that guide.

[johnny8oy57 in reply to IannodaTruffe]

Cheers Ian i think i should try walking faster but even that gets me out of breath so does even vaccuming up a room or going up stairs to bed or my treadmill lol yep i think i will talk to doc

[nowster Graduate]

Just another voice here saying "See your GP". There's something wrong here that needs looking into.

Forget the HR, the fact that you're so out of breath at what you consider the slowest speed is a worry.

[johnny8oy57 in reply to nowster]

yep beginning to think the same will talk to doc...ty

[Cmoi Graduate]

Hi johnny8oy57 , since you're already on medication and clearly worried about your heart rate, I'm also going to say please speak to your GP.

I'll add, though, that the zones in your photo look to be age-based, standardised (220 minus age) and not personalised to your own, accurate HR readings. So they're unlikely to help you. In fact, if I've read the photo correctly, the figures and graph show you've already exceeded your maximum heart rate. Not possible, unless you've brought a whole new meaning to ghost-writing!

I'm 61 and according to the 220 minus age standard formula I've exceeded my maximum heart rate of 159 on a whole bunch of occasions. Given that I don't feel breathless, dizzy or otherwise ill, that I recover rapidly, and that I run a lot of hills, I just don't worry about it.

Get yourself checked out by a medical professional, give them the numbers, tell them how you feel physically, and then take their advice. But please don't use the numbers to reach your own conclusions as this doesn't seem to be helping you.

[johnny8oy57 in reply to Cmoi]

hiya no I'm not too worried but honestly I get out of breath just changing my bedding it feels like a good workout, really, I expected to be a load fitter by now, I will talk to doc maybe even pay for hr Max test or something am getting a bit down that I can't run at 2mph for 5mins without getting so out of breath n tired I used to play footy and never got this knackered in a full game, I suppose it is just gonna be a dam sight slower than I expected, I am not gonna give up but yeah will talk to doc just in case. thanks for everyone's time. I will get there.....

[nowster Graduate in reply to Cmoi]

Indeed. The numbers are just "average person this age" numbers.

I hit 180bpm on parkrun today, and sustained it for about 5 minutes. That's way above the (220-age) formula. OK, I had to slow to a walk because it wore me out (running on soft sand will do that to you), but it didn't see me gasping for breath or feeling sick.

The best indicator is your physical state. Dizziness, struggling to breathe, feeling like you're going to puke, etc. are all danger signs.

[johnny8oy57 in reply to nowster]

cheers nowster I've not got that bad yet, I think I would know when to stop but am gonna try n build my stamina a bit before I go further I'm not that concerned, more disappointed but I am a determined stubborn kinda guy and will get there and when I do I'm gonna be good....maybe lol..ty

[Kirst13 Graduate in reply to Cmoi]

I was lucky that I didn't get a fitness watch until 9 months after I started running. I then discovered that I run most of my runs at or over my "maximum" heart rate. Luckily, by then I had read the advice on listening to my body: I run slowly anyway and if it feels too tough, or I can't talk to the birds in one ungasping sentence, then I go slower. I think listen to your body is key and that yours might be saying to visit your GP.

[Cmoi Graduate in reply to Kirst13]

Thanks for the reply Kirst13 , I think you meant to reply to johnny8oy57 though.

I didn't get a running watch until a year after I'd completed C25K, and now I mostly complain that Mr Garmin and I don't have the same perspective on my runs! 😉

[JonOz]

I have similar challenges getting through week 5, keep dropping back to week 4, but seem to suffer from breathlessness on the longer runs, usually running at 7 - 8 kph walking 6 - 6.5kph, also just under 65.

following a recent accident on the ski slope doctor commented on my resting heart rate of 64

any ideas, suggestions

[nowster Graduate in reply to JonOz]

A resting heart rate of 64 is good. Before I started running mine was around 70bpm.

[johnny8oy57 in reply to JonOz]

6.5 kph walking...oh but a dream for me I can't run that fast but well done

[Daiwalker]

I'll assume the clock/date on your camera is not set to the correct date but putting that to one side, have you tried running outdoors? Treadmills are good but they dictate your pace and stride to a degree, especially when you are trying to run to fit in with your treadmill. That can be tiring AND you have a body heat problem with treadmills. Even if you have a fan pointed at you, the ambient temperature will cause you to heat up which will cause your heart rate to climb as it needs to pump more blood since the heat exchange isn't as efficient as it could be. Running outdoors vastly reduces that issue.

Maybe take to the streets/fields/trails/car park (delete as appropriate) to see how you feel with the emphasis on how you feel rather than what a digital readout is telling you.

Over time you will realise you feel less physically stressed after your run and I wouldn't mind betting surprised at the difference between treadmill and outdoor running. In my younger running days I did a lot of treadmill and outdoor running. I would use treadmill specifically to heat stress my body.

I'm not a doctor so seek a GPs advice but not knowing your setup with the treadmill it is hard to say what is going on there. The best test you could do for yourself is a comparison test between treadmill and outdoors in my humble opinion.

[Jenny1974 Graduate]

Morning you will do it x I’m on week 8 and didn’t think I’d be able to but have. My thoughts on your post… re breathing, try and sing or mime to a song, that really helped with my breathing and regarding whether you will be able to do it, well of course you can, the further down the line is more mental, just focus. I know this sounds a bit depressing but I just thought about the poor ukraines and thought “I bet they wished they could just go for a run” while you can you will. Mind over matter 100% YOU WILL SUCCEED Keep us posted

[johnny8oy57 in reply to Jenny1974]

no its the Russians who are running and yes I have no doubt I will get there will just take a bit longer than I expected but ty

[Runningphobe Graduate]

I only ran on a treadmill once about half way through the program and it made me feel awful, when I was doing fine outside. I think it gives you too much information and causes anxiety which I know to my cost can feel like a heart attack. Try running outside, listening only to Laura and your body and only look at the stats recorded by phone or watch afterwards. PS I am 68 and never voluntarily until I was 60. I'm still slow, but I can do 5k ( in rather more than 30mins)

[copperhello2]

Go and see your GP. There is something wrong. It can be fixed. I've seen it with friends with their triple and quadruple bypasses. Also one who was too scared to see his GP for fear of the diagnosis ended up dead.

[Comte Graduate]

I have no medical qualification but maybe as others suggested you should obtain medical advice. If you are obese then a high HR wouldn't be abnormal with walking but you don't say whether your weight and other characteristics are normal.

[Kiai Graduate]

If you knowingly have any cardiological conditions then best to check with your cardiologist what you can safely do and what you should avoid, and if you don’t then it would be sensible to not risk it and see your GP (perhaps ask them to include a listen for a heart murmor), and either way mention the HRs that you have been getting. I have heart valve disease (mild aortic valve stenosis - narrowing aortic valve) which results on me getting more out of breath and my HR shoots up and my face goes bright red if I exercise too vigorously. Apart from that I that I feel absolutely fine but it is a false sense of security in my case. The HR is significant (with my condition anyway) because I am a risk of tearing the valve if I push it which would need open heart surgery to fix - I must try to keep under 90% of my theoretical maximum HR and aim for 80% or under in exercise. I get to achieve that in slow jogging like on the video posted (which I love doing) but I already had some cardiological fitness before I started C25K. More developed valve disease is very dangerous if left untreated as are other cardiological conditions so I’d say don’t ignore the HR numbers and the symptoms, especially if you’re going super slow and still getting out of breath; it’s not worth putting yourself at potentially serious risk when you can just check with your health professional. Best of luck and I hope you get to build up to brisk walking and comfortable slow jogging.

[javo123j Graduate]

You've only been on c25k got just over 5 weeks so you are on target at the moment. I wouldn't look ahead at the runs and just take them as they come. Try run 2 at 8 minutes and see how it goes. You can always repeat a run if you find it hard. I would ignore the heart rate numbers. My last run showed a maximum HR of 176 but I'm pretty sure it wasn't that high. Good luck with your running

[johnny8oy57 in reply to javo123j]

Cheers Javo I have decided i will do as you say maybe once a week but also do more walking faster and try n keep beats at 135 ish for a while.

[Globojim888 Graduate]

Hi Johnny 😀 I've just been reading through this thread... all I keep hearing in my head is that you must go and see the doctor! Absolute no brainer, call the doc today. All being well, you will get the all clear and can then put your mind at rest 🙂

[johnny8oy57 in reply to Globojim888]

Hi Jim yes just been she said my pulse is high, heart sounds irregular, b pressure up so put me in for bloods and ecg and baby scan on thyroid, then see but i dont think there is much of a problem my concern is ive been running walking since november and still cant run 5 mins without getting destroyed, anyway thanks for the concern im sure it will be ok.

[Globojim888 Graduate]

👍🙂