Is high or low protein better for W&W?

[Vlaminck]

Would love yall's thought on which better in W&W, high or low protein diet, if either. I am thinking about this because last week blood test shows me teetering on the edge of insufficient IgG, which I have been before -- and found articles indicating I need to eat more protein. But wondering what affects if any on CLL. Any thoughts? My protein level is on the lower side of normal.

[Edalv]

I can't say what's better, but the more I read about the subject, I concluded that I wasn't getting enough high quality protein. Now I pay more attention to how much protein I get per day. Most days, I try to get between 1.0 to 1.5 grams of protein per kilogram of weight.

[LeoPa]

The older we are the more important protein is. Sarcopenia is a thing. Low protein intake is unhealthy. But we are not equipped to handle too much protein either. The body regulates protein consumption quite tightly. Protein is very satiating and it is hard to overeat it. I would have to go against my satiety signals to do that. So eating not enough of it is more likely than eating too much. And not all proteins are created equal. Plant proteins don't hold a candle to meat.

[kablea]

I have worked hard on protein needs, mostly because of sarcopenia. Having passed the age of 75, my muscles were clearly disappearing. Muscles are the most important element in our body, closely involved in all functions. It appears that a high protein breakfast (30g) and dinner, at least, will feed the muscles over 24 hours. For me, I needed about 90g per day. I found it really hard to add protein, without adding too many calories, and with a need to maintain plenty of vegetables and fruit. Consequently, my partner and I add unsweetened whey to our breakfast. It does not appear to influence my CLL but perhaps more time will tell. I was diagnosed 6 years ago and, apart from skin lesions, the illness has not really troubled me in day to day living.

[Vlaminck in reply to kablea]

Thank you, kablea. May I ask if you might say more about skin lesions. I had one that appeared to be "leukemia cutis" but which has gone away. I've also had actinic keratosis and one squamous cell carcinoma. I asked on here if anyone else has had leukemia cutis but got no responses and thought it must be very rare. Wonder if you have dealt with that. Thanks.

[kablea in reply to Vlaminck]

Hi Vlaminck - Sorry to reply so late but I have been on vacation with a poor internet connection. My skin lesions are mostly BCC (basal cell) and two were recently cut off my temple and a few weeks later my lower left eyelid was removed. The eyelid was reformed using skin adjacent. That BCC was a small black spot and not easy to see. I have the keratosis in my eyebrow but it never becomes worse or needs treatment. I have about 8 red skin spots at the current time (legs, arms and shoulders) which will probably become BCC's. They are left to 'mature' for a year or two and only when bleeding or troublesome are they removed. Sometimes that is left rather too long. They are considered low risk in the NHS. I visit a local doctor privately to have my skin looked at periodically and to decide what ought to be treated, initially by cryo.

A real issue is that once removed the wound takes weeks to recover and is prone to infection. That is probably due to my CLL. I am 78 and the lesions have troubled me for perhaps 5 years now. I have always spent long periods outside and sun damage is undoubtedly a major cause of all this. Best wishes to you.

[Vlaminck in reply to kablea]

Hi, kablea. You might google niacinamide. There have been reports that 500mg twice a day help prevent at least the actinic keratosis, which is actually early squamous cell carconoma as I understand it. I was getting them often, and started using niacinamide regularly for a while and zero issues as I had been having (primarily AK). Then stopped for a while because wasn't sure about taking this one vitamin that much. But I've resumed in the last couple weeks.

[Ladylin151]

SUFFICIENT protein is the answer. This depends on your body size and may seem like a lot or a little depending on your current practices. The rda for protein is , 8g per kg of weight and is considered the bare minimum. Most research says 90-100g per day for women. It should be spread thru out the day and it's important to know that 100g of chicken (for instance) only supplies 30g of protein. Plant protein is incomplete. It does not contain all of the necessary amino acids. I believe there are ways to compensate but that is your starting point.

[Vlaminck in reply to Ladylin151]

Thank you for that info. Actually most early and primitive peoples have eaten a combination of plants--often beans -- and a carb, which together does make a complete protein. Rice and beans or corn and beans are frequent combinations.

[CycleWonder]

Vlaminck - Your blood protein measure includes your immunoglobulins. If your IgG is low, that may be contributing to your low protein in your blood test. That’s what happened to me.

As far as eating protein, we try to spread our protein out through the day. For breakfast, we always have an egg along with our oatmeal. For lunch, I have Greek yogurt, whole grained bread and Swiss cheese. For dinner we have chicken, salmon or catfish.

I found I could not affect my blood protein measure by my diet. My slightly low protein measure was due to my immunoglobulins declining.

[Vlaminck in reply to CycleWonder]

Thank you. Actually, my protein level is not that bad, just on the lower side of normal, but my IgG has fluctuated at (now) or below normal. I look at your delicious sounding diet and think how I was just toldby doc to cut our dairy (big dairy eater) because of cholesterol (tryingto avoid statins). A lot of my meals are heavy on vegetables, rice and beans, etc. I don't eat much meat and don't like to eat much meat, but maybe I just will have to.

[CycleWonder in reply to Vlaminck]

I eat a brand of Greek yogurt that has 0% fat and 0% carbs. So it does not contribute to my cholesterol. The Swiss cheese may though!

[Lavinia-Blue]

Can you post the articles on protein/IgG? Thanks.

[AussieNeil Partner Administrator in reply to Lavinia-Blue]

Your globulin and your albumin counts are major contributors to your total blood protein. Your globulin is comprised of alpha, beta and gamma globulins. Your immunoglobulin protein (sum of IgA, IgD, IgE, IgG and IgM), are the major contributors to your gamma globulin count, which is a major part of your total globulin count. Unfortunately you can't increase your immunoglobulin counts other than by IgG supplementation via IVIG or subcutaneous IgG infusions.

I've attached a plot of my globulin counts, showing how they dipped prior to IgG therapy and then recovered to higher than my baseline. The lowest result might have been due to that test being done at another pathology lab than my usual, but even if that is discounted, it's clear that boosting my IgG improved my globulin and hence total blood protein counts.

Neil

Globulin count recovery after starting IgG infusions

[Vlaminck in reply to AussieNeil]

Seems everyone on here is getting supplemental IgG. Not only am I not but my oncologist has said nothing about it or even about my immunogobulins nor tested them beyond standard blood test. Perhaps I ought to ask for it; can't hurt to have higher globulins.

[Vlaminck in reply to Lavinia-Blue]

Sorry, would take a bit of googling to relocate it probably.

[SofiaDeo]

As we age, we may not absorb things as well. So some of us may need to adjust intakes of various nutrients upward. The biggies on eating a lot of protein, is to hydrate well so it's metabolized optimally, and get your regular bloodwork to make sure labwork is normal. Excessive protein can cause or contribute to gout/elevated uric acid, kidney stressors.

So a diet that worked well for us when younger, and pre-CLL, may not serve us as well.

I'm not sure what you mean by a "low protein" diet, but if we don't eat enough to make new cells than routinely turn over, in addition to any the CLL may preferentially grab nutrients for, we can lose muscle mass. In addition to needing to keep using the muscles we already have so they don't atrophy.

Any major trauma/illness also ups our nutritional requirements. If one is emotionally upset/distressed about treatment & treatment side effects, good nutrition is important to heal optimally. A variety of food types, not just protein, helps our body when stressed by trauma/disease/sepsis.

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