Low Animal Protein Diet

[Joygee]

I'm wondering if there's anyone in our community who has switched to a plant-based low animal protein (less than 5%) diet after having eaten a "regular" diet including meat, dairy, and eggs? Reason I'm asking is that I'm currently reading about the research of T. Colin Campbell (The China Study) and am considering switching to a low animal protein diet. I was diagnosed in 2010 and am doing ok on watch and wait, but I'd rather not have this disease at all. Thanks, folks. It means so much to have the support of a group like this!

[Cllcanada Top Poster CURE Hero]

If you go green be certain to get your B12 levels checked... don't just supplement thinking it will help, you need to be tested...

B12/folate

nhs.uk/Conditions/Anaemia-v...

~chris

[PattiM]

I was reading recently about cancer diets.(again) A wholistic doctor was suggesting such a diet for all cancers EXCEPT leukemia. Suggested higher meat protein. I have to delve further I guess. I'm currently eating low sugar, low carb diet. 60 gms of carbs per day. Eggs, veggies, salads, lots of chicken, fish, beef once per week. Can't eat much dairy. Supplement with multi vitamin, calcium/magnesium, 5000 D with K, fish oil, turmeric, CoQ10, green tea. 2 1/2 years in, W&W, bloods good, except for wbc hit 20.5. Up from 18 in 6 mos. can't remember ALC. Age 61. Feel great, stage 0. I think cardio exercise is most influential factor in keeping CLL at bay. Curious to see other replys concerning diet.

Patti

[Carrot_Top in reply to PattiM]

Which wholistic doctor suggested plant based diets did not help leukemia?

[msuteg]

After diagnosis in 2013, and after reading somewhere about recommendations for cancer patients, I increased my protein intake considerably. Of course, the meat we use is hormone-free and low-fat (about 60% wild game) but I think it was a good choice. I had read that Leukemia required a high protein diet. For what it's worth, I did FCR and and am now in remission and feeling great. Still high protein.

[JKDLED]

I have been a vegetarian for over 30 years, and I have been a vegan for much of that time. I started the diet for ethical rather than health reasons. I think that it is important to maintain a healthy lifestlye regardless of your diet. I have taken many different supplements over the years but since reading this site have starting taking B12 again and will request tests for levels. Good advice. Thank you.

[EmilyLondon]

I'd be interested to hear more on the sources on a high protein v low meat protein diet, as someone starting out on the CLL journey. I am low dairy for dietary reasons but otherwise quite high protein, partly because I cook for my teenage son.

For what it's worth, my WBC seems to have had a tendency to rise when I am pushing myself and fending off infections, and has stabilised since I reduced work, spent more time doing light physical things, and alternated that with rest. Has anyone else found that?

[Joygee in reply to EmilyLondon]

Thanks Emily for your response. One comment I have is that although most people think of animal protein (meat) as the only source of protein, plant protein is plenty good too, better, in fact, says Colin Campbell in his book China Study. So I'm thinking of giving his whole food plant based diet a go for a month. Will report back.

[EmilyLondon in reply to Joygee]

We wait to hear more! Do make sure you consume enough calcium and Vitamins D and K to help calcium uptake. It's something I have to watch since I cut milk out of my diet because I can't digest it. Oat and almond milk substitutes usually have calcium added unless they are organic or ultra pure in the UK. And I drink London hard water which I once calculated probably made up a quarter of my calcium intake! I am also taking supplements.

[Joygee in reply to EmilyLondon]

Good point you make....just noticed that the organic almond milk I've been buying is not calcium fortified. Thanks.

[EmilyLondon]

I have also found myself having an interesting conversation on Amazon with a dietician about bioavailability of supplements - following my review of some multi vit multi mineral pills - see

amazon.co.uk/gp/customer-re...

[Keepkicking]

I had my first visit to a Naturopath last week and he didn't recommend any dietary changes (even though we were willing.) He said dietary changes are much more crucial with solid tumor cancers, less so with blood cancers.

[SouthFloridaLady in reply to Keepkicking]

My CLL specialist says the same thing!

[MadMina]

Eat to improve and build your immune system, with plenty of fresh fruit and vegetables. I decided to eat less meat products, but did not cut it out all together from my diet. What I believe helps is to eliminate most, if not all, products containing animal fat, for the latter could, according to much reading I did on the topic, stores traces of pesticided, which will then eventually accumulates in one's own body fat, which MIGHT be the cause for developing CLL. I prefer to eat liver once in 2 weeks, due to its high vit and mineral contents, but a fatless turkeybreast once a day is superb, for it contains most of our daily Vit B3, which fights off feelings of depression, tiredness, etc. I also do not eat any dairy, except lowfat yogurt or quark, which is high in protein. Since I decided to follow a low animal fat diet, my WBC count dropped suddenly with about 3000 in 1 month. Over the moon! I'm still on W&W.

[Kentucky123 in reply to MadMina]

Hi Kentucky123, I have CLL, read your blog, very informative thanks, do you think dairy is bad, if you have CLL, I stopped for a while but was loosing Weight, so back on Dairy, I eat liver, Turkey Breast, but no red meat, is grass fed beef ok and does meat consumption have to be Organic, am also on CQ10, Caceo for Magnesium, zinc & Copper food supplement, any replies welcome thanks.

[Joygee in reply to Kentucky123]

Hi Kentucky123,

I've been revising my thinking lately in regards to diet. I think everyone's physiology is different and that it's not helpful to say any given thing is bad for everyone (refined sugar might be the exception). So now I'm practicing tuning into the wisdom of my body and asking what it feels like eating. This does assume you have a clear connection to your higher self, that you can listen and respond to its sometimes subtle messages. I'm thinking this is a good practice to cultivate for overall direction in how to live your life, not just in regards to diet.

[Kentucky123 in reply to Joygee]

Hi,Joyner, thanks for reply, yes I think your right, I'm Using an Apple App called Head Space To connect to my upper self as you say, I think it's important to De Stress yourself if you have CLL, Any Eating Tips from anyone on this site will be welcome, As in What is good or not for CLL , Thankyou All Kentucky 123

[Joygee]

MM

This is the kind of anecdotal reporting I love to hear! I've been on a similar diet (All organic, No dairy, no GMOs, No sugar) for several years and my counts remain pretty much the same. But I have been eating grass-fed organic beef not to mention the occasional strip of bacon. I'm going to stop all the meat for at least a month to see if I get the results I want (reduction of lymph mode swelling in my neck)

[Carrot_Top]

I switched to a plant-based diet when I was diagnosed based on many books I read, including The China Study. You need to also make sure not to eat any of the high omega-6 oils, like sunflower oil, canola oil, etc. which you will find in vegan junk food and fried food. I also cut out the sugar. My first year I actually got my WBC count to normal. I have not been as diligent since and my numbers are back to when I was diagnosed in 2013.

In 2014 I went to an integrative doctor and he would have put me on a vegan diet if I had not already been on one. He checked my vitamins and now I'm on a B-complex because all my vitamins were low and the B vitamins help you absorb the others.

[LoganS in reply to Carrot_Top]

Carrot Top, I have done similar since dx. May 2016. I juice 12 oz daily. Very little meat, no dairy, my natural doc has me taking 6 capsules green tea, 1 bit. E, 8 capsules turmeric daily. My WBC remains at 14.

[Joygee]

Thanks, Carrot Top and LoganS for the benefit of your experience. I'm increasingly convinced that nutritional approaches should be emphasized more than they currently are, and that pharmaceutical approaches should be undertaken only after nutritional interventions have failed. I don't mind using whatever time I have left to experiment with nutritional and other lifestyle solutions.

[Hidden]

No. I wouldn't consider it because my blood protein levels are always somewhat low and my Dr. tells me to eat more meat, peanut butter or even high protein Ensure or Boost to keep my protein levels in the normal range.

[Hidden]

So happy this conversation has come up. I was vegan for 2 plus years after watching Forks over Knives and reading the China Study. It was for health and ethical reasons. Recently I have started to eat meat again mostly because I was ill from a respiratory virus and just too tired to keep up with the extra prep required. My husband is not vegan. I would really like to see more doctors tackle this topic. My own is balanced diet is best but I know there has to be a nutritional way to fight leukemia just as there is heart disease. Thanks for all the tips. Going to aim at stopping all sugar.

[Ker19]

Love reading through these conversations on diet. Although I find I now have quite a lot of guilt with food. I would like to eat mainly green, organic, a little organic meat, juice daily, supplement with green tea and broccoli sprouts (good research on these for CLL.

In reality, I eat chocolate most days, I have little energy at the end of my working day so make do with whatever is easiest and don’t exercise enough even though I think it makes a huge difference.

I’m a work in progress, hopefully my dietary habits will improve.

[Joygee]

I totally understand about the food guilt. One thing that helps me stay out of trouble is if I approach the food choice from the perspective of my higher self. My soul self has infinite compassion for my human self but also knows exactly what I should be eating to maintain optimal health. It seems to be powerful enough to take precedence over the self that just wants to eat donuts. The work for me right now is living more consistently from my soul self and if I'm not there, knowing how to get there so I don't take that first bite of donut, or better yet, don't even want to.

[deveritt]

I’ve been vegetarian since about age 17 with about 3 occasions many years ago where I ate some bacon. Around my late 30s my mother informed my that as a baby, when she needed to supplement my milk I used to vomit back the cow formula and they had a hard time finding a substitute (I think she mentioned carob but not sure).

It took me another 8-10 years to accept that and identify all the food that contained some cow dairy. The result was that my lifelong hay fever vanished completely - this can happen anyway, but I tried cow milk occasionally just to test, and within 20-50 minutes my mouth would be itching intolerably, tongue would swell up and eyes and nose start streaming.

I tires soya milk but was cautious about the oestrogen-mimicking properties and (this might be superstition) I swear my “man-boobs” got larger! Then I tried goats’ dairy and was delighted to find that it suited me well. I now use goat milk, butter and cheeses (of which there’s a delightful variety in our local cheeses shop) and alternate it with oat milk, which also suits me well.

Apart from a very occasional dark 1/2 pint of good beer or a shot of amaretto (either only about once every few months) I hardly ever drink alcohol (I can’t tolerate it very well), and have never smoked.

I have about 3-4 B12 injections a year, sometimes take a vitamin D tablet (I prefer the shade!) especially as IIRC it helps protect from infections, that has no extra calcium - the prescription ones seem to be used to treat anorexia and a medical professional advised me to find pure vitamin D3 to keep my kidneys from working too hard. I have that level checked from time to time as I was severely deficient in D at the time of my diagnosis.

Apart from that, I love spring greens! I also take flax seed oil for Omega 3, organic cider vinegar and local honey every morning, and drink only herb and green teas.

My CLL seems to follow its own path, though, and I have no spare “me” for a control study! But 7 years W&W isn’t too bad, although I’m currently being treated for autoimmune hemolytic anaemia, so will see if my lymphocytes drop back after that.

As a final note, my wife read the China Study (which her mother sent) and found a few flaws in the research, although there’s nothing wrong with a mainly plant-based diet in principle, I think we need a balance, and periodic checks on B12 and D.