Taking matters into my own hands!!

Hi everyone. I posted back in June in regards to pain under the right side of my ribs. I paid privately for bloods (lft) which came back normal, the pain continued so I went to see the gp..another blood test came back normal, I eventually went to an out of hours doctor after the pain got worse and I had trouble breathing (I now think this was anxiety) got sent for an ultrasound which came back normal. Before the 9th of June I was a heavy drinker, at least 4 triple JD's and coke a night for a few years. In 17 weeks I've drank 3 times, a few glasses on my wedding day, 2 flutes of champagne on my honeymoon and 1 week of 1 beer a night to see how I went...the pain came back and appeared on the other side as well as in my right ribs under my arm, and a spot right next to my navel (right). I went to my new gp who read my notes and stressed that it was not my liver, he offered to give me antacids which I didn't accept. So...I've decides to stay on this alcohol free path as it's not actually been that difficult. I want to start healing the damage that I'm pretty sure I've done. My question is what foods and supplements in particular do you suggest? I already drink 3/4 cups of good quality filtered coffee a day and eat relatively healthy....I cant take milk thistle as I'm allergic (they think its linked to my shocking hayfever). I have of course googled this but I couldn't think of anyone better qualified than yourselves to give good advice. Thank you. EDIT. I have attached a photo of pain location at its worst.

[davianne]

Hi Yooks,

Well done for giving up alcohol. You are giving your liver a chance to recover. Milk thistle is a definite no no, very bad for the liver.

As far as your pain is concerned, I have pain all round inside my rib cage, which is coming from the Glissons capsule, which surrounds the liver and spleen. On your US scan, were your liver and spleen enlarged?, mine are with the spleen being twice its normal size which is giving me the pain.

On the diet question, just stay away from processed foods, eat fresh foods, and try to reduce salt and sugar, and drink plenty of water, and along with exercise you should be OK.

I hope this answers some of your questions,

David

[Hidden in reply to davianne]

Hi David. Thanks for responding. They said my ultrasound was completely normal but I felt swollen at the time so cant figure it out. The pain does seem to be where liver and spleen are and slightly further towards the middle also in 2 spots. Pain on both sides is symmetrical. Hard to describe the exact location with words 😕.

[davianne in reply to Hidden]

Hi Yooks,

My pain was a lot worse after eating, and accompanied by breathing difficulty. It started before last Xmas, so called my consultant in January, and he said it could not be liver related. He said it was angina or musculoskeletal, which I knew wasn't the case. He was also very unhelpful when it came to pain relief. For me, I think there is not enough room inside my rib cage for all that is there, hence the capsule pain and breathing difficulty. Because the liver doesn't have any nerves, it can't directly give you pain.

No photo appeared ?????

David

[Hidden in reply to davianne]

I have attached a photo

[davianne in reply to Hidden]

Sorry Yooks, just seen the photo on your original post, and it is pretty much where I get my pain. As your US was normal, I suggest you see your consultant, to get your pain investigated.

David

[Hidden in reply to davianne]

I've seen 5 different people now. With bloods within range and a clear ultrasound they wont investigate further. They tell me its acid which I know it's not. After 2 pregnancies I'm well acquainted with acid.

[Hidden in reply to davianne]

Alt 13

GGT 12

Bilirubin 9

Albumin 44

ALP 44.

Based on these results no dr will touch me

[davianne in reply to Hidden]

Hi Yooks,

We are not supposed to comment or post results here, but yours appear to be good, compared to mine. I think you need to see your GP, and get your pain investigated further. Maybe an MRI or CT scan to see if there is a reason for your pain.

David

[Hidden in reply to davianne]

I understand, I wasnt asking for input as I know they're good..just highlighting why they're not interested in investigating further. MRI's and CT's aren't cheap so I guessing with normal blood panel including full blood count, kidneys function and thyroid, they dont think I need one at their expense. Not fair that I have to live with pain though..I'm scared to take pain killers.

[davianne in reply to Hidden]

Hi Yooks, are you in the UK? If you are then you should see your GP and ask for further investigation for your pain, I am having this same problem just now. No one should have to live with pain.....it should be investigated and treated. If he says nothing further can be done, then you should complain to PALS, it's your right to receive care in your situation.

Take Care,

David

[Hidden in reply to davianne]

Yes I'm in the UK. Think I'm being diagnosed by judgement also. First gp said you're young so dont worry...before looking at my stats. I'm 37 next month and in terms of age vs illness...I think I fall into the older category at this point, I'm just really short so look young. I thought by going to ER I would be taken more seriously, couldn't breath at that point. Took my blood pressure, temp and listened to my chest, then passed me off to out of hours GP. I feel I'm being treated like a hypochondriac but before this kicked off I hadn't been to the gp in 7 years!! I deal with illness at home but this isn't going away. I wonder if my health insurance would cover a scan?

[davianne in reply to Hidden]

Hi Yooks,

If you have health cover, I would try and see if they will cover further investigation. You could always contact PALS, and see if they will get you the investigation you are entitled to. They might be able to get some action for you.

I'm at the other end of the age scale, being 72, and being told I'm too old for a transplant. I am stage 4 cirrhosis, which is compensated( That's why my liver and spleen are so enlarged). Unfortunately I don't have health cover, so really have to rely on the NHS, or my savings. Like you, I feel I am being sidelined. Like you, I was never at the GP's, until I was diagnosed with fatty liver, and then cirrhosis.

Very best of luck, whichever path you take,

David

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Hi

Sorry to but in.

3 years ago my gp referred me for an ultrasound, this just said a little be if fat on your liver!!I ended up having to go private to get a diagnosis which goes against the grain!! Anyway I was told after tests that I had nafld , extremely fatty liver, very enlarged as was my spleen,the capsule was being stretched hence my pain. The consultant who I saw privately said he would take me on under NHS cos you've spent enough! November 2016 had a biopsy which diagnosed Nash!! Also 5 years ago a different consultant said it was muscular!! Sometimes it's like banging your head against the wall!! If you want to pm me that's fine. Hope you get sorted. Love and hugs Lynne xxxx

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Hi Lynne. I asked about fat on liver as all she said was "fine", she sighed then reeled off what was written on the screen which included size, appearance, and blood flow. I dont remember what she said and probably didn't understand it anyway, but she was trying to make a point that A) My liver is fine and B) I'm not a doctor. Touche.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

It's not fair when you have to keep on at them especially when you are feeling so rough. Have you got anyone to go to Drs with you? This does help. Love and hugs Lynne xxxx

[Peter_Plymouth in reply to davianne]

Hi David,

I do feel I have to comment on the Milk Thistle. It is an accepted treatment for liver problems and there are a number of peer reviewed papers showing it’s efficacy. My consultant recommended that I try it 30 years ago and it has done no harm and possibly allowed my liver to work for as long as it has.

It is not for everybody but I just wanted to point out that is is not black and white as you suggest.

Regards - Peter

[davianne in reply to Peter_Plymouth]

Hi Peter,

My information came from the British Liver Trust website at:-

britishlivertrust.org.uk/in...

Scroll to the bottom of the page. I hope this clarifies why I said what I did.

David

[Peter_Plymouth in reply to davianne]

Hi David,

I understand your reading of it but it is more nuanced that a simple yes or no. I quite agree it is not a licensed medicine and that you need to purchase one that is certified by the THR (gov.uk/drug-safety-update/i.... This then ensures the quality and purity of the produce as well as the declared strength.

There are unfortunately so many fake products out there that make false claims that you need to be careful purchasing the correct product hence the THR.

As always you need to talk to you GP/consultant before using it. For me it was my consultant that recommended it - however every case is different and if there is a chance it will help and not cause further damage for me that was worth pursuing.

Regards - Peter

[davianne in reply to Peter_Plymouth]

Hi Peter, I agree with your sentiment, however, I think it not worth the risk to potentially stress an already compromised liver. As the BLT says "milk-thistle is not licensed as a medicine and so studies into its effectiveness in the body have been limited, with conflicting results"

I would not therefore recommend it to anyone, and advise against its use, until better research is done. As you say it is readily available from many sources, but if your doctor has prescribed it, then so be it.

David

[Yaz27 in reply to davianne]

Hi David, quick question about milk thistle, I see you say it's bad for the liver, I've been taking it for over a year now to help with fatty liver, when I asked Dr he said it was fine to take, interested to know if this has changed.

[davianne in reply to Yaz27]

Hi Yaz, I just replied to Peter with a link to the BLT website .

David

[Peter_Plymouth in reply to Yaz27]

Hi Yaz - see what I put above.

I took Milk Thistle on my consultants advice for over 30 years - who knows if it helped but it certainly hasn’t hindered. My only advice is that it must be certified by the THR. The usual give away is that it’s more expensive lol

Regards - Peter

[Yaz27 in reply to Peter_Plymouth]

Thanks Peter have checked mine and they are THR approved, also just read the link from BLT and it says it's the other stuff added to the none THR ones that could be a problem.