I feel so ill at the moment, i'm also really worried about my palms? really red and i can literally see dark blue veins all over my fingers etc... hard to see in pic.. is this pretty standard in liver disease? i'm scared it's progressing faster everyday..I went to the shop earlier and had 4 things on a list... I had to look at the list 4 times as I forgot! It's also been over a month now since I had my blood tests done at QE.. they did say certain tests take longer but any idea how long?? Maybe i'll hear something next week... Is it worth me phoning up my hepotologist secretary at QE?
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ktan49
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Hi Ktan 49 I had plams like that, but I didn't worry about it. I would imagine that if was anything serious that the hospital would have been in touch by now. 😉😉
I have red palms too plus spider naevie all over my chest, back and arms. I mentioned to my hepatologist about the spider naevie literally appearing daily but he said it didn't mean that the cirrhosis is worsening. I would chase up your blood test results.
On some other forum a doctor replied to question stating that palmer erythema is constant and nothing to do with the hand position.I am trying to get answer myself as in is it really constant or goes back to normal palm colour when hand is raised.
I’m a year post transplant and still have ‘liver palm’ - it seems to worsen if I’m warm. Was told it doesn’t tend to go away 😕
Hey ktan49, very much apologize but I cant remember if or not you had been diagnosed with cirrhosis or not? From your earlier posts I remember seeing that your fibroscan was 4kpa?
Pictures are always hard to say as they dont replicate what you see the same way. This could be caused by a number of different things. Youd have to ask the doctor to confirm that it is indeed Palmer erythmia firstly but it isnt always caused by liver disease. But if it is or isnt in this case doctors typically believe that it is a result of estrogen increase. It itself wont hurt you and as Grandma D has said it doesnt necessarily indicate that anything has gotten worse liver wise. Talk to the doctor and see what they say. I know its alarming to see anything that is new showing up but again it doesnt neccesarily mean a down slope.
Hi ktan
Do you have a partner, friend or family member that knows you REALLY well? If so see if they think you are acting any different iin any way at all. Mood swings, bit aggressive, forgetting how to use things etc etc. I used to think I was fine but family woud tell me otherwise. Once I even got cross with my eldest grandchild who couldn’t help me remember my ipad access code! I mean how bad/sad is that!
These are or were symptoms of my HE developing.
I am not a doctor or medical expert in any way so this is just MY experience. Tick in the box for following site rules 😁
Hope you get to the bottom of it ktan, you’ve certainly been given sound comments by others.
If you have symptoms of HE and have not been prescribed medication yet by your doctor you should start taking laxatives so your having 3 bowel movements a day and drink plenty of water.. This removes toxins from the blood that causes confusion, lack of concentration and anger. You can look up all the symptoms by googling: symptoms of Hepatic Encephalopathy
I have been diagnosed with probably cirrhosis awaiting an assessment soon. I have the red palms mainly down the side some days I notice them some days I can't see them. I have fatigue sickly feeling loss of appetite and bruising. Take care.
Can't really tell about your palms, palms can look reddish at the best of times, lol. I cant therefore answer your question there. What I can do though is suggest that you register with the "MyHealth" system at the QE. You'll need a leaflet from your consultant as that has a code in that you'll need to register. Just ask next time you go. Once you are on that system you can see your results as soon as they become available. Most are usually available the day after your clinic although some do take longer is only usually a matter of 2 or 3 days. At least that way you'll not be in limbo wondering what your results were.
Hi ktan49,
Sorry you haven't heard from your doctors yet. I tend to just call their office and let them know I'm waiting to hear from them - at least once a week until I hear. But I don't mind being a pest - at least on my husband's behalf.
I have had red palms most if not all my life and I don't have liver disease - I think I mentioned this to you in a different post.
Anxiety can often cause us to be forgetful and if our minds are on other things it can cause the exact thing you had. I know there are days I go with my list and still come home missing something.
It is easy to tell someone else to be calm, but breathing slowly sometimes helps me when I seem to be a bit too anxious. Perhaps your regular doctor can give you some information about your condition?
Nothing as of yet, going to call my hepotolgists secretary tomorrow morning and ask about blood test results / liver biopsy / prescribe more rifaxamin. It's so frustrating I can hardly put a sentence together when I speak and I really have to concentrate to think of words. Horrible pressure feeling all around my head too.
Liver function tests were ok but ggt is still at 186 and alt 96. I'm still waiting for the urinary organic acid profile and serum amino acid profile results apparently they take longer
I'm kind of confused myself on the whole matter. As far as I understand there were 2 fibroscans that both revealed that there was no fibrosis and an ultrasound that was reported as clear. The symptoms described in the last few posts aren't matching up with the testing. Brainfog, palmer eurythmia etc. These are all signs of advanced liver disease yet the testing proves otherwise and that the liver itself is in good shape. I noticed the doctors report where he stated that the liver seems normal yet you have the symptoms of HE. This is most curious. I know raised ammonia levels can be caused by kidney disease and bleeding within the GI tract as well. Have they looked for other causes that aren't the liver?
You and me both... I feel like im losing my mind! 2 Fibroscans just revealed very fatty liver. Also had CT scan of abdomin & pelvis with contrast which was clear.. ( 4 - 5 months ago) My whole body hurts, joints,bone, weakness etc. But I recently discovered my vitamin D levels are low.. so those symptoms could be down to that.. currently taking 4000 IU D3 daily. Still have bright red blood when passing stools which has never happened before all this started 6 -7 months ago. Kidney function test was done about 1 - 2 months ago.. that was also fine.
High ammonia can be caused by bleeding in GI tract? never knew this. Nothing else is being looked at yet.. there was talk of a colonscopy before I got taken over by QE but heard nothing of that. I believe if these tests come back clear then liver biopsy is next. Also have had yellow / pale stools for the last 7 - 8 months too.
The confusion / forgetfulness / dizziness is by far the worst... it's not in episodes either.. its 24/7.. I am aware it's happening too.
Bright red blood in stools would usually be coming from the lower GI tract not the upper. This is a very interesting case Ktan49.
Have they checked into any extrahepatic causes? Like non cirrhotic portal hypertension and or a choleostatic condition that would cause blockage in the blie ducts?
Well I phoned QE today, still waiting on results, I asked if they could prescribe my Rifaxamin as I have run out ( not fun ) they said they can't as my gastro at my local hospital first prescribed them and it has to be done through him.. I phoned my gastro secretary and she said she will call me when my prescription is ready So at least that's something.. I still feel like Ive been forgotten about.. I guess this stuff takes time.
Oh gosh, yes I would chase them, not that I have any idea what is wrong but I can’t stand hanging around waiting either. I think sometimes when you are worried you notice things that may have always been there and also feeling that confusion and dizziness is worse could be from the worry also. My palms are just as yours but I also have lots of the spider vein things too. I was told that it can also be a symptom of hormone irregularities or changes. I hope you get your results quickly
Sorry I meant to add about my palms, I cannot remember if they always looked like this or not because I never really took any notice and I’ve always had hot hands.
Hi, still no answer regarding red palms. Have got another appointment at QE for liver check in September.. will enquire about it there.. as it’s a lot worse now
Don't worry about it Ryan, there is a condition called Palmar erythema which is a reddening of the palms - is not a harmful condition. It can be a primary condition with no underlying cause, but it is usually caused by another medical condition. Pregnancy and cirrhosis can cause it.
Don't fret about it, many healthy folk have red palms. When you go to your doctors for your blood tests have them look at your palms too just to get clarification.
Nothing as of yet , awaiting appointment at QE for liver check (covid situation delaying this) .. also waiting for for referral to sleep clinic due to suspected obstructive sleep apnea. I feel so rough all the time.. constantly feel drunk, my memory is non existent, blood sugar drops (not diabetic) still have yellow stools, headaches, lots of eye floaters. Horrible right abdominal pain and under ribs, right shoulder pain, joint and muscle pain.. im 32 years old but feel like im 70. Absolute living hell. GGT still raised to 140. Also Ferritin 400... (negative for hemochromatosis). Irritability.. getting angry and my partner and son and its not like me at all to be like this. Always falling asleep during day too. Hopefully one day this nightmare will end.
Hey, this is so crazy because I have alot of the same symptoms that you have mentioned. I'm a 40 year old male that has been diagnosed with neuropathy, myopothy and NAFLD. My symptoms include joint pain, extreme fatigue, mood swings, upper right abdominal pain, and low vitamin D and Iron levels. The fatigue and pain is excruciating, when you said that you felt 70 yrs old I definitely know what you mean! I've also had a normal fibroscan and a normal Mre. I feel like there has to be more going on with me than the Dr's have found. I seem to have alot of the same symptoms as someone would with cirrhosis.
I am in the same situation too. 29 year old male with symptoms that started a year ago. Elevated ALT, RUQ pain, shoulder pain, eye floaters, itchy skin, always tired, and trouble sleeping. I've had fibroscan, abdominal CT, ultrasound, endoscopy with no abnormalities. I'm now seeing a therapist as I've been told there's nothing wrong with me and I'm suffering from health anxiety.
I'm struggling mentally and it's affecting my life and marriage as noone seems to understand. I just wish I could go back to where I was before.....
Me next option is to maybe put my hand in my pocket and pay for a biopsy....
Any luck resolving your health issues? I ask because I have exactly the same symptoms you do and have been searching for answers for nealy 5 years now with no luck. I can't believe my luck in finding this thread with 3 people who have the exact same symptoms. It's just too bad that it's over 4 years old. I hope your well friend and I hope you don't mind sharing any information your may have found. Doctors haven't been able to tell me anything useful. It's discouraging.
Unfortunately I'm yet to find out what is causing these symptoms, which I still experience. I had bloods redone a month ago and they continue to come back completely normal. My main symptoms are pain around the liver area (front and back), itchy skin and fatigue. Also if I drink alcohol, even a couple of beers I spend the next few days paying for it with an increase in the above symptoms. I also have experienced this out of the blue since the start of the pandemic (Jan 19). I've learning to just get on with life, but I feel for you and anyone else of our situation because having no answers just gets you down. Hope you some clarity soon.
Yeah, not having answers is very discouraging. Especially because I've been an athlete my entire life and I know my body well. I know something is off and it's not just in my mind. Doctors are sometimes like mechanics...its hard to find one thats honest and capable.
I appreciate you taking the time to reply and the well wishes. I have had the same exact experience as you with the liver pain and dark urine when I tried to drink alcohol but the last time I did was 20+ years ago. I just got tired of the alcohol dragging me down. It zapped my energy and I decided to just gave it up. I replaced it with marijuana which gives me energy and improves my mood and appetite which is good.
I wish you well and hope you find the answers your looking for.
You and me and that guy seem to be in the same club. I have precisely the symptoms you both have. When I found this thread with your comments I felt like i might finally find some answers to what's wrong with me and then I saw that the thread is nearly 4 years old. I can only hope that your still connected to it and have found some relief to what ails you...and me. I've been experiencing all my symptoms since the beginning of the pandemic and have yet to find any answers. I hope to God that you have and can share them and they are useful. I hope your well and look forward to your reply.
4 months and he hasn't responded. I hope he's still with us because I was really hoping he could shed some light on what's wrong with me. I have exactly the same symptoms he does. I've had them since the pandemic started. I've been otherwise healthy my entire life. I just turned 53 today and my quality of life is going down hill fast. When I found this thread and the few people with exactly the same symptoms it was a rush of hope that was immediately deflated after seeing the thread is over 4 years old.
Why don't you start your own thread on here detailing your issues and then current forum members may be able to offer support and guidance. From Ktan's posts it would appear he is no closer to receiving a full diagnosis than he was all those years ago.
Howdy Ktan49. My name is Jim. I live in San Diego, am 53 years old today. I have had exactly the same symptoms you have described and I've had them since the beginning of the pandemic. I've been searching the internet since 2019 with to no avail. My lab tests come back normal and I outwardly have the appearance of being fit a trim but I know that there is something wrong internally. When I read the exchange you had with another commenter about how when you elevate your hand the color returns to normal...I had to reach out to you and see if you've found any answers because my experience is exactly the same. Both sides of my hands are red, pale and blotchy. My feet too. If I elevate my hands or my feet the color returns. I've also experienced swelling in my hands making them feel large and clumsy. I realize this is an old thread going back 4 years but I pray you are still connected to it and can provide some insight to a poor old guy trying to stave off death.
hi Jimmy, I am 31 and have exactly the same symptoms (sometimes they come and go) for last 8 or 9 years, such as inter alia: red palms, pain (discomfort) under right rib, fatigue, dissiness, confusion, itchy skin. Blood tests normal (gttp, alat, asat) and fibroscan also normal. Sometimes I feel really bad, sometimes I feel normal. No diet change or cut on alcohol seems to help. Sometimes it’s even the opposite.
I quit drinking 20 years ago. I used to drink alcohol daily. Never thought it was a problem for me really. I haven't touched it in 20+ years. I don't think my problem is related to drinking alcohol. If you have what I have I don't think it's related to alcohol either. More likely hormonal or vascular type of autoimmune condition. Otherwise I feel fine. I'm highly active at 54. I cycle 30-50 miles daily. I eat health. My BMI is 4% doctors think I'm tripping. I think doctors suck. 😂 Good luck friend. Hope you figure it out.
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So at least that's something.. I still feel like Ive been forgotten about.. I guess this stuff takes time. 
Red itchy palms
Alan Hyde - QE Hospital Birmingham. 
Which scoring system? 
AST/MCV/ red palms 
Query re blotchy palms 
