A run, and different 10k plan philosophies

[CBDB]

Another little 3k recovery run done, as part of my Runkeeper 10k plan. (Picture is my route and me with my new Concept2 2-Million Meter cap, because … I recently reached my 2 million meter mark! Yey!)

My Runkeeper 10k plan says 10k is next for me, but I disagree. Having experienced the value of taking it slow, I’ll keep to my 10% rule and make 6.6k my next run! Plenty of time to build up to 10k, rather than -as my plan does - get there quickly in order to taper before the race.

I think the difference between my approach (the same as our very own Magic Plan) and Runkeeper is that my plan just wants to have solid and niggle-free journey to reach 10k. I believe Runkeepers plan is more designed to make 10ks faster.

There is of course a balance between, which hubby and I were discussing this morning (or rather arguing). He says, “but running faster makes a 10k easier”. I say, “for the slow-runners like me, speed is just not the biggest issue. It is getting the miles down without injury”.

Anyway. So I’ll try to see how I can add a run in my plan as I’m not sure the app will let me do that. Huh 🤔.

Happy running, everyone!

[Annieapple]

🍏🙌 Couldn’t agree more & the science is starting to agree with us too🤣

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to Annieapple]

Definitely! 👍🏽 💯😃

[MissUnderstanding Administrator Graduate10]

It’s really interesting to follow your journey. For me, it really highlights that training plans are useful structures to follow but absolutely not set in stone. Knowing how you like to run, when you’re likely to get injured and just generally what works best for you trumps any grumpy app or piece of paper trying to push you into speed runs when you don’t want them or distances that feel too far. Your run, your way!

When I did the Magic Plan, I did the shorter run as a speed run every week. That’s one of the options described on the information station post and it did work well for me. I think following the Magic Plan still allows for some faster running if that’s your thing. It’s totally ok if it isn’t though!

When you set up your run keeper plan, did you select a time target for your 10k? I’m just asking because I did when I set up my Garmin 10k plan I did and that’s suggested loads more tempo/intervals/hill repeats etc that any other plan I’ve done before. I absolutely haven’t done them all!!! I’ve also found it annoying when I’ve had to reschedule runs and suddenly the whole week looks different, and I can’t figure how to get the other runs back again. There’s something great about an old school paper plan where you can just cross things out and draw arrows to different days!!!

It sounds like you’ve been really thoughtful in where you go next from here. Just enjoy the build and you’ll get to 10k in your own time, and we’ll be ready to celebrate all the little wins along the way!

[Gthants 60minGraduate in reply to MissUnderstanding]

Oh, that sounds interesting! It's the shorter runs I have most issues with. It seems a faff to put running gear on, stretch and warm up just for 20 minutes. (That "just" is laughable as what was an unimaginable amount of time a year ago, seems fiddly now!)

But if I do it as a faster run, then there's more of a point to it and I might build up a bit more stamina. I know I have slowed in order to get from 5k to 60 minutes.

I do like the Magic Plan. Especially my really, really loose interpretation of it! 🤣

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to Gthants]

Yes, it really helps to have a purpose for the smaller runs. I have found the NRC short runs are really useful for that! It’s too easy to run for too long! 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[Gthants 60minGraduate in reply to CBDB]

"Easy"! 🤣🤣🤣

[MissUnderstanding Administrator Graduate10 in reply to CBDB]

I know what you mean! I’ve always suffered with the toxic ten. The fifteen minute runs had me barely out of it!! I used to get around it by doing a longer warm up walk which also made it feel more worth wrangling myself into a sports bra! Or sometimes I’d do it just before yoga/pilates and stay in my sports kit. Only one shower needed that way as well!

[Gthants 60minGraduate in reply to MissUnderstanding]

I have a shower once a month, whether I need it or not ... 😬

[MissUnderstanding Administrator Graduate10 in reply to Gthants]

🤣🤣🤣

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to MissUnderstanding]

I found my perfect sports bras for me (good old M&S ) and no hard wrangling involved. (A bit of easy wrangling still needed 🤣)

[MissUnderstanding Administrator Graduate10 in reply to Gthants]

Interpreting loosely is absolutely fine! As long as you’re not adding on loads of distance or massively changing the balance of hard running to easy runs, just do what you like! It’s so easy to over think and get obsessed over exactly what runs you should be doing. Been there and the joy can quickly disappear! As long as I’m running regularly, sticking to sensible distance increases and mainly doing easy runs, that is good enough for me.

My pace has both slowed and got faster at the same time! There’s a much bigger difference between my easy, chilled runs and my faster runs. I’ve got a lot better at knowing what a conversational pace is supposed to feel like and how to put my ego aside to run with those numbers on my watch. That means I’m running slower than I was, but probably where I should have been all along if that makes sense!! My pulse is much lower for the same pace on most runs.

I’ve also knocked some chunks of my personal bests by doing speed work and strength in the gym. That’s very satisfying!

You’ll get there. It’s amazing what comes with experience.

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to MissUnderstanding]

Yes, intriguing, isn’t it.

This plan has its really great features. Instead of a target time, you put in your current 5k time (I think? Cannot quite remember). And as it works in two-week “chapters” , the second chapter (week 3 and 4) was about pushing your pace a bit. So it’s made up of intervals runs, tempo and “surges”.

The chapter I am in now (week 5 and 6) is about focussing on going farther, so no tempo run, only 1 interval run, but all others are either long runs or short runs.

It makes sense somehow, but I do wonder if my “updating the plan” mucked up the original one and created now this jump to 10k. So it might be more a technical glitch than a running plan issue. But I don’t know for sure.

But there is a very distinct tapering, and I think that is the major difference to the magic plan. Psychologically and physically, this results in a very different experience, I find.

And my preference is for no tapering and slowly building up (but i do understand the need for tapering)

Interesting isn’t it, and you are absolutely right. Your run, your way. 💜🙏👍🏽👏

[AlMorr Ambassador Graduate10]

Don't worry about speed CBDB, the main thing is that you enjoy your running, certainly no marathons for me, I was reading somewhere that it takes many marathon runners one month to recover after they run that 26.2 miles, this morning I ran my 180th (not) parkrun 5K in a time of 34:17 which is the exact same time as I ran my 2nd parkrun.

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to AlMorr]

180th! Amazing!!! And speedy gonzalez of a time!

[AlMorr Ambassador Graduate10 in reply to CBDB]

(Not) parkruns began on Monday 15th June 2020 when normal Saturday morning parkruns had been off by then 3 months due to Covid 19, this week so far there have been 202 of which I have ran 180, up to (not) parkrun number 170 I included split 5K times when I was running more than a 5K, since (not) parkrun number 171 I only include a 5K single run as a (not) parkrun, one of my reasons is that practically all my only 5K runs are sub 35 minutes whereas when I run a 10K slower my split 5K time is around 36/38 minutes hence a lower age grading when I used to do that.

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to AlMorr]

Lol, it is jaw dropping. I started running in lockdown, did buy a park run pack and got myself a code and identity, but have excavator 1 (not) parkrun registered on there! 🤣🤣🤣

My excuse is that none of the parkrun routes are in my vicinity, and my own closer routes are all 4.7 or 4.8 but not exactly 5k.

Anyway, that’s my excuse! 🤣🤣🤣

[AlMorr Ambassador Graduate10 in reply to CBDB]

👍 🏃🏾

[Gthants 60minGraduate in reply to AlMorr]

180 is amazing. 34:17 is jaw-dropping!

[AlMorr Ambassador Graduate10 in reply to Gthants]

Thanks Gthants ✔️😄

[dijep Graduate10]

I'm definitely with you. Fast is not my goal, being injury free is the main thing.I guess I can understand if you are trying to aim at a certain time for a certain race date, but It's rather plodding along.

I love the picture 😍

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to dijep]

☺️🙏😊

[Cmoi Graduate10]

I don't actually understand what your husband means by “running faster makes a 10k easier.” Is he thinking that running faster is good preparation for increasing distance? I'd disagree, as does the the 80/20 rule: runnersworld.com/uk/trainin...

Or does he feel that the less time on feet the better? For me personally that's definitely not the case. I'd rather run for (much) longer at a pace that's comfortable for me than do a shorter tempo or speed run. That's personal preference though, others will disagree.

Re “getting the miles down without injury” I'd say that's true for any runner, not just "slow-runners" however they might be defined. Tbh I don't find adjectives like fast and slow useful. My slow might be others' fast, my fast is most definitely others' slow.

I prefer to focus on effort, not least because my own pace can vary hugely during a run. My pace running downhill today was more than twice as fast as my pace heading uphill on the identical stretch of road (average 6% gradient, 2.7km each way) even though I was putting in similar effort throughout.

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to Cmoi]

Yeah, I think he means less time on his feet. But then he is a former long-ish distance cross-country runner, who has always been , and still is lean and nimble.

His logic certainly does not work for me, but with his physique I understand where he might be coming from.

There is also the other theory that you do need to “practice” fast in order to become faster. Both in terms of “getting” the motion of leg-turn over and fitness. And of course that’s what interval runs, tempo runs and hill runs are kind of about.

So I get where he comes from but it’s not my preferred way of training up to 10k, and also not the right way for my specific body.

[Cmoi Graduate10 in reply to CBDB]

I'd certainly agree that it's difficult to run faster if one's never tried. I don't really see how physique comes into it though, surely it's a matter of personal preference about the type of runs one does? I'm short and chunky, the antithesis of the distance runner stereotype, but as I said before I prefer distance to speed.

Confession: I've never run intervals. Or hill repeats. Only did speedwork and tempo runs under duress when training for the trail marathon event, and hated them. Their use, for me, wasn't in increasing speed, but in teaching me I could put up with stuff I loathed for much longer than I'd have thought possible. I forced myself to complete them only so I didn't have to do them again!

In the unlikely event I ever take on an actual event again (I won't say race because I don't race) I'll follow some sort of plan. Until then, I'll continue to do my own happily random thing!

[MissUnderstanding Administrator Graduate10 in reply to Cmoi]

Their use, for me, wasn't in increasing speed, but in teaching me I could put up with stuff I loathed for much longer than I'd have thought possible. I forced myself to complete them only so I didn't have to do them again!

Absolutely love this!!! That’s the thing with running. There’s never one right way that it has to be done. You never have to do a speedy run ever again unless you want to!! Please keep your happy random runs going! I love that as a training philosophy!

[Cmoi Graduate10 in reply to MissUnderstanding]

I clearly remember the two runs that freaked me most in the maratrail plan. The 33km/20 miler totally intimidated me beforehand but was actually fun.

The 80 minute tempo run ended up closer to 90 minutes (useless route planning) and was horrible. Just looked it up on Strava. Went out in cloudy 18°, came back in 22° in shade and 27° in full sun. I don't do hot weather running and wanted to cry.

I so hate running to order. The thing that most puts me off ever entering a serious event again is having to train for months beforehand like a proper grown-up runner.

Cue Sheryl Crow...

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to Cmoi]

LOL definitely! You do you! 😊👍🏽🙌👏

[MissUnderstanding Administrator Graduate10 in reply to CBDB]

There is also the other theory that you do need to “practice” fast in order to become faster. Both in terms of “getting” the motion of leg-turn over and fitness. And of course that’s what interval runs, tempo runs and hill runs are kind of about.

This is exactly my experience. Those runs make my easy runs feel more comfortable and have improved my strength and form, That’s not the only way I could have done that, but it’s a valid option for those who want it.

I do sometimes wonder if introducing speed and wanting to get faster get a bit of a bad rap. The narrative often seems to be that “slow” means uninjured and introducing speed means your legs will fall off. There’s space for all of us to do our own thing (with the usual disclaimer around sensible distance builds and balance of speed to easy, strength training etc…).

I’m sure I would have gradually got a bit faster by increasing my distance at a slow pace, but I think those speed runs enabled me to take good chunks off my PBs. I loved that journey. It was a personal goal and not everyone will be bothered about it or want to run in that way. That’s absolutely fine!

So maybe your husband is really saying running faster in training makes running a faster 10k easier! But maybe it just needs to become training to run a 10k in any way that suits you makes running your 10k easier!!

I’m now very glad that I’m the more experienced runner in the MissU household and my husband doesn’t try and give me training tips!! 🤣

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to MissUnderstanding]

Lol! “giving training tips”: I’m (or he is) not quite there yet. And to be fair , I do appreciate all his thought’s immensely. We are now a husband and wife team that cannot stop talking about running. How cool is that! (5 years ago, I would never have seen this coming)

I agree with the value (for me) of different types of runs. I think all the hill runs, intervals and fartleks have taught me different paces that I can now “play” with on any runs. So I’m fortunate to really enjoy these.

[Folkylass Graduate10]

Great picture and fab hat. I’m with you on this one I think that completing a run injury free is much better. 🥰x

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to Folkylass]

Yup! Thank you!

[Jonwil Graduate10]

I do wonder when I've run intervals with a running club group, the fast ones are standing around having a rest at the end of an interval, while I' m still plodding along with hardly a break, who gets the better workout?

[MissUnderstanding Administrator Graduate10 in reply to Jonwil]

That is the really frustrating thing about being slower. You can often feel like you don’t get proper time to recover. I feel your pain!!

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to Jonwil]

Lol!

[Beachcomber66 Graduate10]

I hesitate to put a foot into this debate😬; but here goes. Long slow runs are the basis for my running. 2 out of three runs per week are slow, and the third is an intervals run, the latter being run at a pace where I can keep running at reduced pace between intervals rather than having to stop for breath. I have been running the long run at 7:30 pace for a while. Last Monday on a 10 miler, over the same course, 7:30 became 7:15 without conscious effort. If I avoid injury, 7:15 will drift up to 7:00. I don’t get out of breath, average heart rate just under or just over 140. That works for me aged 72. The only point of this ramble is that we all start from different places. Were I 18, PB hunting etc my head would likely be full of data..