Gutted...

Did a 10k this morning bit my Garmin tells me that my training status is unproductive and that my fitness is decreasing because my v02 level has gone down by one. I don’t get it! I don’t feel like my fitness is decreasing, although I was tired setting off this morning. But it’s kinda put a downer on my run this morning! Any ideas?

[Sandraj39 Graduate10]

Sorry - no, but I'm sure others will. I have an old Garmin Forerunner 10 which doesn't bother me with things like heart rate, VO2 etc(!) Just as well really because this mornings run was 6 miles of mud wth a couple of hills and subsequently very slow!! I hate to think what your Garmin would have said about me - but I know I had a fab run and will be all the fitter for it. 🙂 Just out of curiosity, can you turn off things like HR monitoring etc on these newer Garmins?

[Hidden in reply to Sandraj39]

I’m pretty sure they can all be turned off yeah. Maybe that’s what I should do

[Jazzyrunner Graduate10]

How frustrating. I can’t explain it but I can imagine how you feel. I always just look at the VO2 max and fitness age as a bit of fun - but still I do get excited when it improves! I think it’s not very sophisticated. It seems to me like slow runs on flat levels make it improve. I guess your heart doesn’t have to work so hard so it thinks you’re fitter. Did you do more hills? Or go faster?

[Buddy34 Graduate10]

You really enjoyed your run and you reached 10k, that's amazing.

I don't really understand the vo2 max , a few weeks ago I got a sub 30 at parkrun and mine went up 2 points to 39. Then like you I went out and and a 10k and I dropped 2 points.

Think once your body gets used to running 10k the vo2 max will increase again. 😊😊

[Hidden in reply to Buddy34]

I just read that when you start to do longer distances it goes down because it only measures your run in the first 10 minutes and when you do a longer run you naturally start off slower 🤔 Interestingly it went up during my fastest 5k. Who knows 🤷🏻‍♀️

[GoGo_JoJo Graduate10 in reply to Hidden]

Your right it takes it's measure early on but its about your breathing. Start steady and control your breathing, nice deep breaths until it buzzes then carry on as normal and you'll see an increase 👍🏻

[Granspeed Graduate10 in reply to GoGo_JoJo]

Always good to know how to manage a stat! 😄👍

[NotPrime]

It’s not really your VO2 max. It’s an algorithmic approximation and most likely wrong. Same applies to your training status. Don’t let the algorithms ruin your fun. If you enjoyed it that’s what matters.

[Hidden in reply to NotPrime]

Thank you. That’s very reassuring

[Tasha99 Graduate10]

My VO2 max dropped 5 points by the time I'd finished marathon training and done a marathon. It's completely inaccurate. Ignore it. I did a 15 mile run with 1000 ft ascent and it dropped one point again. Total rubbish. Doesn't take variables into account. VO2 max is accurately measured with a mask on on a treadmill. How can a watch measure your oxygen.

[Hidden in reply to Tasha99]

Thanks Tasha. Thats made me feel so much better ☺️

[Tasha99 Graduate10 in reply to Hidden]

I can do a one mile fast run around the block and make it go up a point. Yet a 15 mile trail with 1000ft ascent makes it go down. What rubbish!

[Hidden in reply to Tasha99]

Crazy !!

[Sandraj39 Graduate10 in reply to Tasha99]

This is why I am happy with my old Garmin FR10. Things were so much simpler in the old days...😉

[runwithdog Graduate10 in reply to Sandraj39]

same here,g10 does all i need and it is easy to get bogged down with numbers.

[mrrun Graduate10 in reply to Tasha99]

Apparently, Garmin and others do it by having you run for at least 10 minutes while simultaneously measuring your pace and heart rate. That way vo2 gets pretty accurately calculated.

[Tasha99 Graduate10 in reply to mrrun]

Doesn't take into account elevation or terrain so it's pretty inaccurate

[Mummycav Administrator Graduate10]

Hi Rhedeg ....tell me about it...my VO2 max had me 3 years older than i actually am & i was gutted too...the thing is, we believe them don’t we? why though?? You feel and ARE fitter because you’re running, just because that isn’t reflected in your garmin stats doesn’t mean it’s not true...are you running constantly or doing a bit of jeffing?? I’ve been running everyday so far and now my VO2 max says i’m 7 years younger...I’ll be a teenager by the 31st!!! Really, please don’t be disheartened about your stats...just run, and enjoy it...that bit of plastic on your wrist can’t tell you how good you feel after a run so ignore that bit and just look at the distance you’ve run because that is something that has improved since you started all this right???

[Hidden in reply to Mummycav]

Thanks mummycav for your words of encouragement. I’m still running consistently 3 times a week and, yes, I definitely feel fitter! I’ve only been running since the second week of September so I guess when you look at it that way I’m definitely fitter than I was 😆 You’re absolutely right. I need to stop listening to my watch and just be pleased at what I’ve achieved 🥰

[Mummycav Administrator Graduate10 in reply to Hidden]

you’ve got it!! I’ve been running almost 3 years and I know, without a doubt, I am fitter than I’ve ever been, I know we think our Garmins, fitbits etc are God but they’re not...it’s all about how YOU feel...and your recovery time after a run, the less time it takes the fitter you’re getting so there...Garmin can swivel!!! (unless it’s telling me i’m younger!!!😂😂😂)

[Mummycav Administrator Graduate10 in reply to Hidden]

Guess what Rhedeg ???? I’ve been out for a run and done a very comfortable 5.2k and my Vo2 max has gone down so I’m a year older after a cracking run this aft, doesn’t make sense does it??? 🙄 grrrrrr...

[Hidden in reply to Mummycav]

🤣 that made me chuckle. It really doesn’t make any sense! Let’s go on a protest and vow to never trust our watches again 😆

[Mummycav Administrator Graduate10 in reply to Hidden]

I can’t blummin believe it!!! My breathing, legs, heart, recovery...everything was spot on so when i peeked at my VO2 max i expected a completely different result....i thought i would be in my 20’s!!! (slight exaggeration) sod it...trust out of the window...it’s me and you against Vo2 max 💪🏻🏃🏼‍♀️♥️

[Hidden in reply to Mummycav]

💪🏼

[Beachcomber66 Graduate10]

Beachcomber66 VO2 max rules; if your score goes up it’s brilliant; celebrate. If your score goes down; ignore it and just rely on your intuition. That way lies sanity 👍

[Mummycav Administrator Graduate10 in reply to Beachcomber66]

makes lots of sense!! 😉

[Hidden in reply to Beachcomber66]

🤣 brilliant! Thank you.

[Jazzyrunner Graduate10 in reply to Beachcomber66]

Totally! 🙌🏻 My approach to the weather forecast too - I have two apps in my phone, look at both, and believe the better one!

[Jazzyrunner Graduate10 in reply to Jazzyrunner]

Same approach to both, it’s a bit of fun, not an accurate picture 👍🏻

[Beachcomber66 Graduate10 in reply to Jazzyrunner]

I ignore weather anyway, except for ice 😊

[Deals1 Graduate10]

I'd say ignore it too... Unless it's given u good news 😂😂. I don't really understand it either or heart rate as I can often do a nice gentle run and garmin tells me I was in zone 5 all the time 😱

U feel good and that's what counts 👍👍👍

[SueAppleRun Graduate10 60minGraduate]

I wonder if you are coming down with a cold or something,

[Hidden in reply to SueAppleRun]

Yes maybe! The kids are all ill so...

[SueAppleRun Graduate10 60minGraduate in reply to Hidden]

What a shame

[GoGo_JoJo Graduate10]

Don't let it get to you.

Vo2max is heavily affected by cold weather. Always breathe through a buff until you get the buzz with your performance indicator, usually around .9 of the 1st km.

Secondly... it's a glorified calculator. If it felt good, it was good.

I used to get quite down when it pulled the unproductive line on me, occasionally it was correct but usually it was a case of not ticking the right boxes to make it happy so these days I just shrug it off. 👍🏻😁

[Hidden in reply to GoGo_JoJo]

Thanks GoGo_JoJo that’s very reassuring to hear 😊

[Beccym Graduate10]

I think we need to look at our gadgets as a bit of fun, getting out is the most important thing that is better for your health than sitting on the sofa. It has also been properly cold today the first time really this year.

My Fitbit tells me I could improve my V02 by losing weight I think if I lost weight I would look sick. Mine goes up and down all the time by one or two points.

Doctors surgeries have had an increase of the worried well making appointments because they are taking too much about what their apps and gadgets say.

Like others have said it could be related to pace, marathon training my pace is much slower than my 5k one. Mine seems to improve when I add swimming into the mix.

[Hidden in reply to Beccym]

Very true! Thank you Beccym

[ForbiddenPlanet Graduate10]

As an inexperienced runner I think VO2 Max is fun but it's just one of many indicators. When I began running 10Ks it dipped, but I thought OK - 10K is a new challenge. IMO as we learn to run we are learning how the body reacts to it and there are many incremental changes happening at the same time which makes for a confusing picture. So I try to chill out and look for overall trends. They are usually upward, but tbh I think it will take a year or more to see significant improvement across the board in my own performance.

[Hidden in reply to ForbiddenPlanet]

Thank you forbiddenPlanet. You’re so right! I’m not going to let it bother me 💪🏼

[motherduckling Graduate10]

This happens to me ALL THE TIME and it is so demoralising. But I have found that if you just go for a short, fast run a day or 2 later it will pop back up again!

[Hidden in reply to motherduckling]

Thank you. I’ll try that and see. I know it means nothing, but it’s interesting to see

[theoldfellow]

The Strava website (which takes it's data from my Garmin 235) keeps telling me that 'that run was consistent with your usual efforts' when I'd busted a gut to get close to a PB, and more often 'This was easier than your usual effort' when I am doing a deliberately aerobic (HR controlled) run. It's extremely annoying, and I would love to find out how to <anatomically impossible> it to Strava!

If the technology hinders and doesn't help, ignore it. Or do what I do, have a good vent (in private)!

[Hated2Run Graduate10]

Throw the garmin in the bin - why are people on this site so obsessed with tech - fine to measure the distance but otherwise? you know how you did, trust yourself!

[UpTheStanley Graduate10]

With my 35, I actually trust the time, the distance (usually) and the split times. I do look at the instantaneous pace readout, which means I know it can vary by as much as 30 secs/k while I'm running at an absolutely steady pace. The run track frequently has me running through peoples' gardens, and Dexy5 's once showed her swimming the Avon (twice) as part of the Great Bristol 10k. My heart usually stops beating once or twice in the course of a run, and I haven't even found the VO2 max reading yet ………..

I wouldn't dream of running without it, though

[ju-ju- Graduate10]

I find the garmin and strava stats unhelpful at the best of times as its all based on quantatative data which has no emotion etc.... I would say keep your focus on your training and fitness goals and put the stats to bed for a bit, and before you know it they will look better. I find they can be very demoralising.

[IAmCharliemouse Graduate10]

VO2max is a measure of oxygen breathed during increasing effort. Your watch does not have accurate data for oxygen breathed, and you probably aren’t increasing effort in order to max out your intake. So it guesses. It uses your age, weight, heart rate, etc. and matches that data against known values and averages in a database.

The best you can hope for is an improving trend over the long term. Individual readings are full of errors. And you can only compare the same device with itself, since different devices have different algorithms.

Look at it this way. Have you ever stepped on the scales, stepped off and stepped on again? You can get a variation of a few percent. Now if something that measures one thing, and has all the data it needs, can’t be consistent, how good do you think your watch’s guesses are?

Enjoy your running and enjoy the stats, but treat them for what they are, guesses.

[Cantstopmenow Graduate10]

I've got a garmin 35 which I only use to record my route, time and distance. I only got that in June after I completed couch to 5k. Before that, all I knew was that I could run for 30 minutes.

I'd say, listen you your body, follow a sensible running plan, include strength and flex and have a good diet. Let the stats take care of themselves! 😁