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7k with anticipated gait issues! 😖

7k with anticipated gait issues! 😖

Nice and coolish here this morning. Did my 7k a bit further down the Wirral Way. Was aiming to slow down to 7-8min per k, but didn’t manage to slow down to that until the 5th k, by which time my confused feet decided it was a great speed! 😂😂

Still not too sure what to try doing for improved gait after Friday’s confusing gait analysis. Tried landing more centrally on my forefeet with my toes flexed up, but just seemed to achieve a niggling pain in the top of my right foot and a blister forming to the right of the ball of that foot. Also tried sort of landing mid foot more, but not at all sure about that either...

Tried out my new cheap hydration vest. Nice to be able to drink on the move, with lots of handy pockets - though “one size fits all” does end up being a bit big on me. Had a last minute switch around just as I set off, upon realising I’d accidentally achieved the banned pocket placement of mobile phone directly over pacemaker! 😳

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Ooh MD it must be so hard thinking about your gait whilst trying to relax into your run! Lovely pics though - and sounds like the vest is a hit too after a bit of reorganization ! 🏃‍♀️X

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Thanks - I’m sure I’ll work it out eventually. Probably better to be thinking how to improve things now rather than once I’m notching up too much distance! 😊❤️

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Yes absolutely! X

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Lovely 7k run MD. Ouch! to the blister though. Am loving the photos, looks a little cooler there was it?

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The car thermometer said 18.5degC, Lexi. So just nice. It’s still overcast at the moment. We’re expecting things to turn quite a bit cooler here from tomorrow. I’m hoping the blister sorts itself out. Lots of new running shoes coming to try on soon, though, so my feet will have choices! 😃❤️

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That sounds more manageable. Ooh! There will be pictures of your new shoes? Can’t wait to see them. 😎

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Ermmm...confession, I’ve got 5 pairs getting delivered from 3 different online stores... Have promised husband most will go back once I’ve tried them on and seen what fits best!! 😂😂

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Way to go MD! Love it!

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Oh I feel your pain, it all sounds so easy when you watch a youtube vid, but then so hard when it comes to actually practicing it in the real. In my mind i'm a god, in the real.. well hehe. I think there are corresponding training exercises that go along with gait/form correction. Maybe need to look them out. Only one I have ever tried is the butt kick after every third stride, but there are lots more.

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Thanks Pink. I think my biggest problem is I can’t even really decide what type of gait is best to go for, so I’m just mashing everything up for now! 😂 The pain starting in the bones of the top of my right foot had me thinking mid-ball of foot strike might not be such a great aim after all. I’m veering towards midfoot ideas at the moment, but can’t seem to do that lightly enough. (It also feels like I lose momentum completely each time I try to land my feet that way!) 🤷‍♀️🙄

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Ouch... !

Great photos... confused feet.. a close shave with the pacemaker... and a blister... Al human life is here?:)

Wow..! Well done you...I loved the run....but your poor feet!!! Is it not possible for you, to just run??? I never really think about it...it just happens? xxxx

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Thanks Oldfloss. Have to admit I’m wondering now if going for gait analysis was a good idea...😂😂😂

I was never really supposed to just run, though, as my metal neck fusion even stopped me from walking normally for many years. So I started C25k knowing I needed to reduce impact up my spine at all costs. Hence my botched attempt at a forefoot strike gait followed by slight heel touchdown to help stability... (It seemed a good plan in theory...)

Will speak to my Sports Therapist and ask for suggestions, but I think the poor guy may be getting fed up with how many bits of me he has to provide exercises for! 🙄😊

I know I can’t take heel strike running, and am so far useless at a low impact mid foot strike, so I think I’ll need to keep going with the forefoot striking, but now I know that’s why I twist my knees so badly on uneven surfaces I’m going to need to find a way to improve it somehow...😊❤️

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Looks like just the kind of running territory I like. Those overhanging trees, and lovely clouds - never thought I'd be looking forward to clouds...

I've been looking into this gait and footfall business with interest, there is a lot about it on the internet and YouTube. Pretty much all the gurus say 'take changing very slowly or you'll get blisters etc...'

Then I found all the stuff about barefoot running, and how it is natural, and automatically fixes the footfall and gait issues. Not sure about that either. But if you were interested it would mean a few more pairs of shoes, but this time without any heel-rise.

I am not advocating this, btw, just fascinated. This was fun, even if you don't believe the snake-oil😳.

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Thank you for sharing. I've been thinking a lot over the past few weeks about humans being "born to run". I truly believed that I did not have the ability to run but the progress I have made over the last 4 months just by getting out and doing it still continues to amaze me.

There is a woman at our parkrun who sometimes runs barefoot and that too is an interesting concept x

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Thanks for the suggestion, theoldfellow. I’ve just watched right the way through the last video curious to hear where snake oil was going to be involved...😂😂

I did try barefoot walking many years ago, when the impact of walking was very painful for me. Sadly my spine just kept flaring up and it didn’t go well as an experiment. (I bought and then sold on eBay the expensive “Barefoot shoes”.) I ended up doing better by going in completely the opposite direction, and instead use thick gel heel inserts in my normal walking shoes and boots.

It clearly works well for some people, though. We’ve even seen a couple of people doing our Parkrun barefoot (or in socks) while carrying their trainers in their hand!

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Just as long as you know about it all. I would think by now you know what is best for you. We are each a special case, after all. 😍

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Thanks - always good to look into new options. I’m afraid I’m still going to be experimenting and learning for sometime with running...😊❤️

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I do hope you find a solution to your gait problems mountaindreamer. Like Oldfloss I don't think about mine too much. Are you trying to change because your natural running style is giving you problems? x

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I’m not sure I have a natural running style pianoteacher. I did run on my forefeet as a teenager (very badly), but that was a long time ago, and I lost and had to relearn the ability to walk relatively normally again at some point since then.

I’ve adopted the forefoot strike to reduce impact on my spine, but at the moment the way I’m doing it seems to be making my knees very unstable on uneven surfaces. I’m thinking I should perhaps be less greedy and just stick to level surfaces for now and keep to my wobbly forefoot gait! 😊❤️

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Wow mountaindreamer - I've just read about your fused spine! Goodness me you are doing fantastically well. I do hope your sports therapist can provide some useful input. Good luck xx

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It’s only surgically fused between 2 vertebrae in my neck, but it’s just never behaved well and likes to kick off my spinal cord. I once met a guy slowly hillwalking out in Snowdonia whose entire spine had fused naturally due to a nasty medical condition. He was doing amazingly, and still scrambled too - though he’d had to stop rock climbing. Makes my tiny fusion seem irrelevant! ❤️

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Once upon a time Dexy5 decided she might try this running lark. So off we went round the block, about 1.2k, in 9'30" ish. I thought her gait was a bit strange, a bit tippy-toe, and suggested she tried getting her heel down a bit more, which is how I run when I'm not doing what passes for a sprint. So a week later we went out again, and she tried that, and got round about a minute quicker :-) , but buggered her hamstrings :-( , and didn't run again until she started c25k this spring - 12 years later!

Now she does a 5k parkrun at just about 7 mins per k, on tippy-toe, and I'm saying nowt!

Which leads me to suggest you should do what comes naturally, whatever it looks like.

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We really must meet up with you guys for a Parkrun UpTheStanley! Eileen and I can tip toe round, while you and my husband sprint off into the distance! 😂😂😂

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Actually mountaindreamer , it was my Achilles which I hurt, by following UpTheStanley’s advice. I decided running wasn’t for me at that point. It wasn’t sorted until we were in Turkey later in the year and I had a massage by a big Turkish masseur. He massaged away the problem.

A joint parkrun sounds a great idea if we are ever in the same place at the same time.

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It was my Achilles that flared up too (as well as my spine) when I tried running last year on a treadmill, trying to do mid foot strike, Eileen!

My husband (who also does a sort of fore foot followed by heel strike) also used to have real Achilles problems when he tried to increase distance, though, so I think our fore foot strike shortening the tendon may also cause issues...

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That would be somewhere around Warwick, probably, to even up the travel :-)

I am corrected, btw (how unusual :-( ) - it was Achilles tendons not hamstrings!

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I was told that I run funny by a personal at the gym... When we started C25k I was so self conscious it changed how I ran and I didn't enjoy it. Also I wouldn't run around people. After a while I just ran how feels natural to me but kept an eye on posture.

You see so many different ways of running and as a coach in a different sport sometimes you have to say what works for the person, as long as not putting them at risk of injury, is the way to go.

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I’m trying to adapt around a temperamental neck fusion Nell, so am still trying to find out what works best...it’s an ongoing experiment...😊❤️

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Ah, makes sense. Fingers crossed you get it sorted :)

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So, you've been told to flex your toes upwards after having gait analysis? or you think it's worth trying? maybe that's the problem.

Footstrike what feels normal and comfy for you without slamming your heel down.. using the best running shoes for impact absorbsion..

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The gait analysis lady told me I needed to strike the middle of my forefoot, Dave, which is what’s now confusing me.

After watching a video on technique that pinkaardvark found, I was hoping lifting my toes up might be what I was missing out. I somehow seem to land off centre on my forefeet, then roll along the outside of both feet before touching gently with my heel! The video of me running showed my feet wobbling all over the place, and it was suggested that this was why my knees end up twisting on uneven running surfaces.

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My knees twist a little on uneven surfaces, but my legs and ankles have strengthened since I started running, it can take a few years to build running legs.

Were you getting any pain in the legs before trying to change your running form and was feeling good? if so, then wouldn't worry about trying to change and carry on as you were.

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Striking on the middle of your forefoot reduces your landing area, it is almost like point loading, and therefore minimises the load distribution and cushioning effect and maximises the reaction load transmitted to your body.Together with any overstriding it is a most unsustainable running form with extremely high risk of injury.

Sincerely MD the out of balance forces generated here and even worse on uneven terrain, it is not a surprise that your knees are twisting.

Your poor knees.🤔

Pinkaardvark’s video link demonstrates all the alignment etc and on a running track.But Tbh I think it has its place at the right time.Good to be aware of, adopting all of it, unstrengthened just yet.🤔

Take care of you.

Hope you get sorted.

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That’s an unusual collage! Lovely photos. And I can only dream of having to slow DOWN to 7-8min/km😳

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Thanks FlickM3 - I decided I liked the shapes in this template! 😊

I think I’m too used to everyone speeding off at 5k Parkruns, but I think slower is going to suit me fine for longer runs.

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crikey oh blimey md. Your posts are so great, thank you for sharing your runs and your path with us! You don't half just ... get on and DO it, eh!

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Thanks - just have to keep experimenting! 😂 Now I’ve found a flat shady route, I’m not leaving it for my longer runs until the weather cools down! 😊❤️

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Hi Mountaindreamer,

I have read some of your story and journey, not it all.Read all of your replies on this post and your previous post.

Just like everyone on the forum looking to try and support.

Was thinking about your situation as I ran this morning.

1st thought, Why is the C25k programme running form as per Laura’s, MJ’s eg. and the following

Laura’s podcasts C25k+ not allowing mountaindreamer the comfort you need for your spine.

Answer,this is exactly what you need to follow in my novice opinion.

There are several reasons why I think this.

You are like me a new runner, this form correctly followed will give you max protection and comfort.

We are still building and as a woman of the mountains I could guess that your stamina is limitless.🤔

I think you need to forget pace at present,🤔 from one of your amazing pics you appear to be overstriding, not good , your heel is ahead of your knee.🤔

All the videos are amazing , but a huge amount to absorb for a new runner.

This has got to be natural and simple in the beginning, I think anything can be tweaked later and when we are strengthened .🤔

I think you should concentrate on your posture, engage your core, stand as tall as you can, head still, shoulders above your hips, etc, all Laura and MJ’s upper body running form,

Just let your feet follow in your natural way,but your footfall must land underneath your hips,quick, light steps, kissing the ground.

I think because of your natural high cadence, this will suit you anyway.🤔

I would not get too obsessed with the front foot/mid-foot footfall🤔 Laura and MJ do not instruct a heel strike,they suggest a footfall that maximises the area of your foot kissing the ground and therefore maximising the cushioning effect.Thats my reading of their advice.🤔. That is just physics, and good load distribution.🤔Both of them do not practise the lean forward for additional momentum either.Although it is logical later.🤔

Personally I would KIS this, sorry if I have misunderstood and you have already tried all the basics, but you do want to find your happy pace and consolidate it, before pushing on with your preferences in distance and pace.

That’s easy, slow up, you have got great pace anyway.

We are all unique, but the adaption C25k programme gives us all the maximum protection in finding our happy pace and for me it is a go to position/foundation for any situation.

I know you are a C25k graduate, rock climber,previous runner and you have been through very tough times,running coaches do not change a person’s natural form, they just tweak things that will avoid/reduce injury.There are many elite people in all sports who rely on there natural ability.I think the elites with amazing correct form,learn it from childhood.A good many anyway.Most,certainly a senior like me, just shuffles along at a happy pace hoping one day I will wake up turbo charged.👏👏

Yes all the other bolt ons are excellent at the right time in our journeys.

Hi MD, hope this helps, I am just a senior novice who is passionate about this stuff and want to see you find your solution.

Please do not overthink it at this stage.The C25k programme has addressed that also and has simplified it for us.

Take care of you.💥🏃‍♀️💥

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Hi Tbae, thanks for your reply. Not sure if I missed it somewhere, but I’ve not been aware of Laura giving me any footfall advice with C25k?

I think the picture you mention of me overstriding is my natural attempt at a brief sprint finish, so I don’t think that’s normally an issue (I mainly try to take teeny light steps). I seem to have no natural ability to land lightly unless I land on my forefoot, though (I’m basically using the flexing of my whole foot as a spring to avoid shock going up my spine). I should perhaps add that for several years I was only even able to walk on the balls of my feet, as any attempt to “heel toe” walk normally kicked my spine off badly.

So I think I’m stuck with forefoot striking, even if I stop worrying about improving how I do it for now and stick to running on smooth, even surfaces. (I guess my love of hills has me daydreaming of running on mountain trails some day...but in reality my pacemaker would struggle to give me a high enough pulserate for that idea anyway!🙄) I plan to run tomorrow’s 3.5k run with my normal forefoot strike again on pavements... will see how that goes and take things from there...😊❤️

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Gosh you are a woman of steel.

You seemed to have it sorted for you.

I did not use Laura for the C25k programme, it was in week 5/6 before I knew of her, but replayed her wk4 🤔 description of footfall.She got unfairly criticised/ misunderstood in my opinion, as it was perceived to be heel striking.Interestingly on uneven terrain we all from time to time do a little of everything. Heel, mid, front.🤔

MJ gives a very concise description of footfall, just short and lightly towards the heel, but not on it.Laura’s description is identical.

Great you are on top of it and you will surely strengthen further.

Yes good that you are going to ease up for your longer runs.

Even ground is also a huge help for you.👍

You are an inspiritation.Truly.

Atb.💥🏃‍♀️💥See you on the 17th if you have not graduated by then on the magic 10.

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I’m only just finishing Week 3 on Juju’s plan, Tbae, and don’t plan on skipping any weeks, so I’ll still be on the bus on 17th! 😊❤️

My Sports Therapist just texted back to say we’ll look into gait exercises when I see him for my spine Thursday, so he’s obviously not yet fed up with me demanding things for multiple body parts! 😂 Probably safer getting his opinion rather than a lady in a shoe shop anyway, and if I don’t get my gait right for my spine then he gets lumped with that problem, so I guess it’s in his best interests really...🤔😃❤️

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Way to go.

Must say the professionals know their stuff.

Their knowledge and how they identify the source of the pain.👍Amazing.

Once had an arm pain, turned out to be bad posture and pseudo gout in my CI&C2🙈😂😂

Gave me a few exercises took a few cherries in my porridge , starting running end of problem.Cannot believe the amount pain killing Tramadol🙈now zero.👍👏👏

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Yeah...spine’s are weird things, especially up at the neck end. Lots of nerves going through tiny outlets and spinal cord close by. I’m surgically fused C5/C6 due to a massive disc prolapse a long time ago. If you say to someone you have back issues, they think backache. Once mine kicks off it’s mainly screeching pain down all 4 limbs at once (spinal cord involvement). Hard to describe...❤️

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🙈🙈.

Awful and hard to manage.

I used to seize up with this stupid pusdeo gout.Gout without the joint swelling.

Took 8 Tramadol + 8 paracetamol + 2 Naproxene for 2 days and it just zapped it.

Now it’s as if it never existed. Weird.But I put it down to gym and running and more savy nutrition.

Mind you there is some stuff that we are not able to fix and just have to learn to manage without.

But our brains are clever and can perfect new routines.👍👏👏

Atb tomorrow 💥🏃‍♀️💥

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I’ve been pretty lucky. I was on ridiculous amounts of medication for many years, including some really nasty stuff that I had to go through pretty drastic withdrawal last year to come off. A private sports therapist then started accidentally “fixing” me while treating other injuries. I’m not yet “normal”, but I barely take any drugs at all now... (And unexpectedly I now run!!) 😂😃❤️

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Well done you and him.💥🏃‍♀️💥

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Thinking more about your situ.

I am a techie🦕. I wish I could send you the link.

Your legs are typically 17% of your body weight so big effort to propel them anyway, relatively.

To support your relatively heavy head also, best is stand tall, imagine a string pulling your head skyward, that and a straight back and level shoulders not bobbing up or down will carry/ support your still head best. If your situation allows.Level chin, not forward.

Chest out, if comfortable and this will let you breathe easily.Kiss your romboids gently together, back of your shoulder blades, again if comfortable, now let your footfall kiss the ground under your hips.

Practise running on the spot if you wish before you set off.Just to get the feel and the 1234 rhythm at your happy pace cadence.🤔

Hope you have a low risk way forward.

You are doing fantastically well and considering the many challenges.

Take good care of you.

Hope the forum has put a finger on something for you.

It is only you that knows best your body and what is right for you.💥🏃‍♀️💥

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Ouch hon...

I guess one of the issues with having "proper" gait analysis is that it tends to tell you what you're doping "wrong" but not necessarily what to do t fix it, at least not in a way that's observable and manageable. No YouTube video is going to help with that.

I'd be a bit careful.....don't want to hurt different things....

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It’s ok...my Sports Therapist is on the case. Will see what he advises Thursday. How did you get on with the Physio?

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My replay got somewhat shortened!! Lol

Physio was fine. Tight left quad, but all else okay they said. But it's Physio Week here. I've got a Sports Massage (ooh er) on Wednesday and I've engaged my health insurance and have yet another Physio appointment somewhere else on Thursday.

The phone consultation seemed fine. Their view was getting rid of pain is good, but they really want to understand the cause of the pain and fix that rather than just fixing symptoms.

And clearly they want the revenue from my insurance company. Can't do any harm I guess.

Feel loads better and may even go out for a jogette later when it cools down :-)

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Sounds promising. Take it steady. Half what I get’s called Sports Massage (then they mobilise spinal joints afterwards and call it Physio!) Don’t expect a nice relaxing massage, though. It usually hurts, but feels good for you! 😂😂❤️

Just laughing at your replay above...didn’t know I was “doping wrong” - hope I don’t get drug tested! 😳

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Sometimes typing on my phone leads to unexpected consequences.

I did work for a client once who would would randomly ring people up for an immediate drug/alcohol test and fire anyone who failed. Bunch of laughs they were.... :-)

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We have had a good old chat today🤔,

You hang in there, the ability of our bodies to repair some stuff is incredible.The stuff I have lost and do not need,one eye vision,hearing same side,facial neuropathy and no cartilage in one knee.

Strangely enough my left leg is beginning to look as if it belongs to me now.57 years ago cartilage removed and I did not rehabilitate it properly. Too busy with other stuff. It is certainly stronger now and trying to match its neighbour.

I say this to you to empathise , and strongly believe more than ever and because of this forum that we can prevail against tough odds.💥🏃‍♀️💥

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Sounds like neither of us are ever going to let anything stop us, Tbae.

Onwards and upwards! 😊❤️

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Yes MD.💥🏃‍♀️💥

As others have said on here I would rather drop down dead running than die on a couch.👍👏👏🌟

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