Running Slower For Endurance.

[dindy]

Hi All. Had a good day planting 18 packets of flower seeds and some cucumber + started making changes to my giant cold frame.

Now it is time to sit down so decided to look at running slower for endurance. No particular reason other than interested in what is on the web. Many seasoned members have told us to slow down when we are struggling and to run at a conversation pace. The same is on the web as so many trainers and experience runners are taking the advice to slow down your pace.

It seems if I have it correct that you run your normal pace for the 1st 5k and then from 5 to 10 k you slow the pace down. That may be for those just building up to 10 k or is a normal tactic anyway, I do not know.

At 1st I stared running above 5k distance at the same pace but found I was struggling to get the distance in. It then clicked in my slow brain to slow down which I did. I only slowed down about 1/2 a mile per hour but boy what a difference it made.

The 1st problem was I was saying to myself that my normal 5k pace was really slow anyway so how o earth can I slow down any more, it seemed impossible and like I was failing which I was not. This is now my tactic above 5k and once I reach 10k then I will start improving pace if I feel like it.

The one thing I find impossible but to be honest maybe because I am not really fully fit enough as yet is when they say to run slowly in training you run to Zone 3 or heart beat of 105-120. If I did that I would be running a lot slower than I a walking.

I tried it on the treadmill just to see how it went and to keep in the 105-120 bmp I would be going at around 3.1 mph or even less. That is not on for me as at that pace I find it hard to run like a car running on 3 cylinders really rough and not smooth at all.

I think as my endurance/stamina improves my heart rate will come down for a certain pace and then I will be able to run at 105-120 bpm but a faster pace. Until then I will give the 105-120 a miss. I have only got as far as running 7k so a bit of a way to go to 10k. If I can do 8k this Monday I will join Ju Ju`s next 10 k class which will be starting soon.

[ChrisAllen1 Graduate10]

I think pace is very much a personal thing, I have asthma and know if I start quick I will struggle, almost every time my slowest splits are my first couple and quite often the quickest is the last km even in a 10k.

[pinkaardvark Graduate10]

I think you have it wrong. You don't run 10k by running your 5k pace and then slowing down. If your 5k pace is your best you shouldn't have anything in reserve so you wouldn't be able to continue for another 5k even at a slower pace. You should aim to run the whole of the 10k at a slower pace than your 5k but ideally if you can you should speed up as you approach the end. This is called negative splits.

It may sound obtuse but by starting slowly you leave money in the bank and then you get to spend it when you feel free to do so nearer the end.

[Lordi Graduate10 in reply to pinkaardvark]

Pink is correct and I managed to do just that today 'by mistake". I set off on a 10k jog/run planning to just post a regular easy-paced longer run time. Maybe due to increased fitness I found I was cruising at a pace a bit faster than a jog all the way to 5k without trying too hard and felt I had loads left in the tank. At the same time I noticed I'd be able to set a PB by just running 20-30s per km faster on the back 5k. So I tried it out and it seems to work. I'm sold on negative splits now I think! Break the back of the distance feeling comfortable/ easy breathing / HR zone 3 and then up it a bit on way home. It's hard to run slower on the way out because you feel you can go faster of course. On the way back you can let rip a bit (but not too much).

Edit - Looking at my watch I was mostly HR zone 3 over first 5k then mostly HRz 4 on second 5k. 2/3 Hrz 4 1/3 Hrz 3 overall.

Edit2 - My heart rate zones are 1 - 93-119, 2 - 111- 129, 3 - 130-147,

4 - 148- 166, 5 - >167... I know hrz is very personal but your HRz 3 range seems very low Dindy? Did your watch use default settings or did you set the zones yourself? If the watch auto set them then they are probably correct for you however.

[dindy Graduate10]

Hi. Thank for the input and correcting me on my pace trying to get to 10k. What you say makes perfect sense ,starting out slow even for the 1st 5 k and have something left in the bank for the end.

My heart rate is done ol the formula of taking your age away from 220. I now this is only a guide as not everyone are the same. To be honest sometimes I am running and I feel fine but look at my heart rate and it has just nudged into the red. I do not stay in that red zone as everything you read about tells you that is a no no for more than a few mins.

I feel ok in the red zone and under no stress but slow done a tad anyway.Others can go even go over the red zone limit and feel ok. What that does suggest it is only a guide and best thing is listen to your body.

My zones are correct according to Polar,I have never checked them on another site.

220- age 70 years=150 Max heart rate.

Zone 1, 75-90 ---Zone2, 90-105---Zone 3,105-120 ( If I sometimes walk for 30 second to one minute heart rate will drop into Zone 3) Zone 4, 120-135 (Most of my running is done in this zone) Zone 5, 135-150 very rare in this zone.

I used to look at heart rate a lot now I do not as I found looking at heart rate and seeing it nudge upwards made it rise even higher. If I find I am really getting out of breath I will check heart rate then and slow down if needed. All a learning curve.

[Lordi Graduate10 in reply to dindy]

The 220 minus formula! I wasn't thinking minus 70 years Dindy! Doh! My bad! Respect! I hope I'm still running at 70! In that case I can see why the ranges are lower. You might be a lot fitter than many 70 year olds though? So maybe ask your GP about whether the 220 rule holds well for higher ages?

Edit - You say you feel fine when nudging into the red hrz? I usually feel like I'm about to explode/implode!

[Razouski]

Wow Dindy. You’re looking good for 70 and running well.

I can’t offer any advice as this is all too technical for me. I don’t do stats on heart rate, as all I measure is my distance and pace with Mapmyrun. However I know that some of my most comfortable runs (and longest distances( have been when I’ve not been focusing on distance, time or pace and just run purely for the pleasure of it.

I hope you manage to work out how to pace yourself, and happy running as you head towards 10k. 🏃🏻‍♂️

[Oldfloss Administrator Graduate10 in reply to Razouski]

Glad I am not alone in the, just running.. I use my Garmin and Strava to see distance and times at the end of the runs.. and as a record of where I have been been The run is the thing...

[misswobble Graduate10 in reply to Oldfloss]

Me neither. I just run. I deliberately ran a slow hilly 8k the other day. I ran up the hill without even noticing it. Doing it again in a minute. Hopefully I will repeat the experience 💪👍

[Oldfloss Administrator Graduate10 in reply to misswobble]

Go you🏃‍♀️

[Bazza1234 Graduate10]

Dindy - you can't go on that formula 220-age . I am 71 and according to that formula my maxHR is supposed to be 149. However I regularly run a 5K parkrun at an average of 149 and that would be physically impossible if 149 was indeed my max HR. I have also regularly recorded my max HR achieved over the last 2-300 metres of parkrun when I have been trying hard - and it is always between 163-167. When I run on a treadmill, I have to tell the machine that I am only 55 otherwise the machine has a heart attack.

[Oldfloss Administrator Graduate10]

I feel, not unlike Winnie the Pooh, I may be, "... a bear of very little brain..." although long words don't bother me

I just run... starting slowly, ( that, and the very end of some runs, is the only bit of the run where I do consciously focus on my pace), and then just letting it evolve

You will really enjoy ju-ju- 's 10 K, it is brilliant...it works so well. I have used it to repeat a 10K comeback, and on my second time now after injury

[dindy Graduate10]

Thanks for all the advice. I also think the 220 is only a guide since everyone worldwide will be using the formula no matter of age or circumstance. Whoever came up with the formula must of allowed a large margin of safety in coming up with the number 220. It is like the sell by date on food or only pump your car tyres up to a certain pressure etc,all have a wide margin of safety.

Anyway I actually run 8k today (-: It seems from what I have read that 8k is a psychological distance to overcome. I went to bed not worrying about the distance I had to run and thought if I do not make it the distance so what,no problem just try again.

That bit worked and I took your advice and run the whole 8k at at less than my normal 5 k speed and it worked. At no time was I out of breath and most of the time almost breathing normal, Heart rate was lower but what I was struggling with was heavy legs. I think my legs were still getting over last weeks 3 runs with a 7k. Anyway the last 1/2 k I upped my speed and finished ok. My photo was taken when I had just turned 69 and the camera does lie!!!

You cannot see the grey hair coming through on sides and soft focus hides some of the wrinkles (-: I think I am going to be stiff later on but I feel I can sign up for ju-ju`s 10 k now.

I have been following it to the letter or should it be K every week but did not register as I thought 10 k was out of my reach. depending how I feel at end of week I will either repeat week 4 again,go onto week 6 (doubtful) or recoup and have a rest week.

[LiisaM]

Curiosity has the better of me. How big is that cold frame?!?

[dindy Graduate10]

Hi LiisaM. My cold frame is of the hoop type or it was,search google for hoop cold frames & then images.It was too small last year and the curvature of hoops meant restricted to size of pots. This year I have modified it so the frame is still made out of 21.5 mm overflow pipe but not is square. It now measures 1.6m long (63") 1.09 m high (43") 0.9m wide (38"). It is then covered with fleece. I have lots of large containers with fuchsias & pelargoniums overwintering in the garage which will need to come out soon into the sunlight. Just also planted 18 packets of flower seeds in the heated propagators.

Once I finish a run it is a shower 2 biscuits & a cup of tea then out into the garden or greenhouse till about 4pm when I feel like collapsing(-: No rest for the wicked come April & may for gardeners.!!!!!

[Oldgal68]

Well done dindy on the running and the gardening! I find your experience very inspiring! I share an allotment with my niece and we are still learning, but I have purloined one of our four raised beds to plant flowers, so now have to build another for all our veggies! Went down to the beach after my run yesterday and grabbed a couple of buckets full of seaweed and spread it as mulch on our freshly-dug beds, so hoping to get some respite from the slugs and snails this year! I find it really relaxing, physically and mentally. I’m a bit like Oldfloss and generally just run for the love of it but the stats tell me that I generally run in the high zone so maybe need to do some more strength and stamina training! That said, at 68 I’m enjoying the privilege of good health and being able to run, so after a somewhat tough life I can say that 68 is the new 36, lol!!

[Oldfloss Administrator Graduate10 in reply to Oldgal68]

Yes.. stamina and strength are so important.... I have a routine every day.. boosted by caring for small runner in training two days a week, which is a real work out and usually incorporates much walking

[Oldgal68 in reply to Oldfloss]

I agree with you about the value of walking Oldfloss , I took a long, long walk on Sunday and I wouldn’t be surprised that it influenced my return to form, think I need to incorporate more into my programme. I’m sure you thoroughly enjoy having small runner in training alongside you!